Superman: son of Kal-El

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark can't even fill his own shoes.

Honestly,it's pretty easy.The character is pretty simple .the idea that jon or conner or clark kent from earth-prime can't fill the role is mindboggling to me.

Yeah...uh....I'll just take Jon going back how he was and Conner being back with Tim, Bart, and Cassie. No need to go all the way back to the silver age xD

I will also take superman as just a simple action hero and guy who punched for the little guy.A working class guy who beat up giant robots and leapt tall buildings.

[Superboy-Prime]

Yeah...uh....I'll just take Jon going back how he was and Conner being back with Tim, Bart, and Cassie. No need to go all the way back to the silver age xD

No need to make another Superboy, it only existed to give Clark some stories as a teenager. There's only one real Superboy. But I understand people love the clone.

[HsssH]

None of them are meant to replace any of the Trinity, they just share their names. Not sure about their sales, but I find it hard to believe Yara is anywhere close to the other two.

She doesn't have to sell as well as Batman and Superman, she just needs to sell well enough to be a viable second book for WW franchise.

[Superboy-Prime]

She doesn't have to sell as well as Batman and Superman, she just needs to sell well enough to be a viable second book for WW franchise.

I'm aware, he was saying that she's the only one who would last, I just don't see that. She's not special like that.

[Alpha]

I'm aware, he was saying that she's the only one who would last, I just don't see that. She's not special like that.

She has a unique design and can affirm her sexuality without feeling exploitative, which is something Diana can't do. Plus her best friend is a pegasus. Trust me, she is gonna stick around.

[Superboy-Prime]

She has a unique design and can affirm her sexuality without feeling exploitative, which is something Diana can't do. Plus her best friend is a pegasus. Trust me, she is gonna stick around.

Sure, but she doesn't have any better of a chance than Jace. Jon, sure, he's too controversial.

[Vordan]

Sure, but she doesn't have any better of a chance than Jace. Jon, sure, he's too controversial.

Oh I think she does. Jace is at a disadvantage because he’s coming into a Family that already has multiple “heirs” to the cowl, and already has multiple non-white members that people like. He’s a latecomer and will always have to struggle with why he as an outsider “deserves” the cowl over someone like Dick, or other black members that Bruce trained such as Duke or Luke. In contrast aside from Diana, the Wonder Family isn’t all that well known or popular. Donna’s a mess, Cassie is cool but sort of redundant since Diana is a daughter of Zeus now as well, Nubia has historically not mattered but they’re going to start pushing her soon (how they’ll reconcile her and Diana’s origin I have no clue), but Yara has a few things going for her. Unlike the others Yara is immediately different in terms of origin, mythological background, and personality. She’s nothing like Diana and has been built deliberately to not be. She’ll be the only “brown”/indigenous member of the Wonder Family which I think will ensure she sticks around.

[sifighter]

Or we could go for the optimistic third option, we as readers could support all three of them to insure that they have future staying power without having to dethrone any of the characters people like such as Clark, Bruce, & Diana; ie the everyone can potentially win option.

And as for Jace what I think makes him unique is that he’s built for the role...literally. Even though this is a preexisting character let’s face it and admit that very few people remember him or even knew he existed so John Ridley existentially gets to rebuild him as he’s becoming Batman. While Luke and Duke do exist, and I like both of them, they would run into the same problem as Gordon, Dick, and Azrael if they became Batman, which is that they would just fall back into set roles (Nightwing, Azrael, Police Commissioner, Signal, & Batwing) but Jace is being built up solely to be Batman so they can’t just revert him back to status quo because this is his status quo.

[Vordan]

Or we could go for the optimistic third option, we as readers could support all three of them to insure that they have future staying power without having to dethrone any of the characters people like such as Clark, Bruce, & Diana; ie the everyone can potentially win option.

And as for Jace what I think makes him unique is that he’s built for the role...literally. Even though this is a preexisting character let’s face it and admit that very few people remember him or even knew he existed so John Ridley existentially gets to rebuild him as he’s becoming Batman. While Luke and Duke do exist, and I like both of them, they would run into the same problem as Gordon, Dick, and Azrael if they became Batman, which is that they would just fall back into set roles (Nightwing, Azrael, Police Commissioner, Signal, & Batwing) but Jace is being built up solely to be Batman so they can’t just revert him back to status quo because this is his status quo.

You’re ignoring that they could kill him off or drop him entirely, which wouldn’t be out of character for DC to do. I mean where’s Jace going to show up in outside media, because that’s really what matters these days? He won’t be appearing anywhere, and I seriously doubt that even were they to consider a non-Bruce Batman, anyone is going to go “let’s have Jace take over the cowl”, far more likely they’d make Dick or Damian brown to reflect their heritage better if they want a non-white Batman. I like Jace, I think Ridley has really built him into an interesting character over the last couple issue of Second Son, but I don’t really know what his long term prospects are. If Ridley really knocks a Jace Fox Batman mini out of the park, and then Jace starts showing up elsewhere, maybe he’ll stick around. I just don’t know what his long term prospects are given Bruce is never going away and Jace is a very late addition to the Batfamily (which is already overcrowded).

Jon isn’t going anywhere though, even if this push fails. The general public knows who he is now thanks to Young Justice and Superman & Lois. Like Damian, being the blood son of Superman gives Jon protection. He’s a key part of the Superfamily now, love him or hate him.

[Ascended]

I think the biggest hurdle is fandom's own preconceived notion of replacements and legacy. You tell a fan that a big name character is being replaced and that fan will assume that the publisher is doing it as a cheap stunt to shake things up with no real thought or depth behind it, and at most it'll be over in a year or two with the original back in place. Without any emotional investment in the new face, and assuming the story will be thin, we drop the book (maybe we give it a few issues first). So the sales drop and the publisher is forced to bring back the original in, at most, a year or two.

It's a self fulfilling prophesy.

I think these new faces, Jon and Jace and Yara.....they only last long-term as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, if they do so laterally, or *everybody* takes a step up. Jace either becomes *a* Batman while Bruce remains *the* Batman (Future State, Miles Morales type stuff that doesn't really impact Bruce's own titles) or Bruce gets "promoted" in a way that he's bigger than ever and his former status quo is left available for Jace to occupy (if Bruce went full-time Morrison JLA/Metal in scope and left the day-to-day of Gotham to Jace). The originals have to be active, they have to have their own solo books, and they have to remain the bigger gun. I don't see any of the new characters keeping the Trinity's names without giving fealty to the OG's.

Barry joining Justice Incarnate while Wally takes care of Central City is a good example; Wally can protect the city, run with the League, do all the normal Flash stuff, as long as Barry's been promoted and is running across multiverses.

These guys will probably stick around for a while, though I'm not sure the Batcave will accommodate yet another person, but that doesn't mean they'll be using the big boy names. Jon's not likely to go anywhere for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean he'll be calling himself Superman indefinitely.

[Superlad93]

And I'm down for that. Not thrilled that it's replacing one of Clark's titles but Jon as essentially a Silver Age Superboy doing Golden Age things, with the added flex of being a king's son? Sure, you know that's right up my alley (other than my not wanting Jon to exist at all ). Lots of cool stuff to play with there, but end of the day? It's a step forward in the overall El family narrative journey, but it's not reinventing the wheel yknow?

I don't think it's about reinventing the wheel, but rather just making a car for the 21st century, and being legit about it. While Clark has privilege and power, it's primarily individualized, and it doesn't really have much of in the way of direct modern relevance beyond him being white, straight, and a guy. While you could get some solid stuff out off that, when compared to the idea of inheriting power and agency it comes off as more vague and general. There's more of a direct point with Jon, and it speaks directly the idea of People In Power.

It makes Superman part of a system, and it asks what's he going to do with that power. This is in contrast to how the Golden Age makes him a far less tangible outlier, and makes a point to say that once he's enacted his wrath on who should get it, he's gone just as fast as he came. Again, it's not to say that the Golden Age Superman wouldn't work today because there's still relevance there. It's simple, straightforward, and evergreen. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be "of today".

The originals have to be active, they have to have their own solo books, and they have to remain the bigger gun. I don't see any of the new characters keeping the Trinity's names without giving fealty to the OG's.

Yikes. I know you. And I know you're just telling the truth of it all, but f$%king yikes. That is very easily the most-- and I don't throw this around lightly-- boomer/gatekeeping/self cannibalizing thing that I've ever heard. It's like a giant toxic spirit bomb with Alex Ross' face plastered over it and held up by hands that have "classic" and "iconic" tattooed on them. And once it's throw the guy who threw it adjusts his glasses with a single finger.

Even if it's a futile gesture I'll support the f$%k out of this just to not let THAT guy and the idea of f%&king "fealty" win. And what's crazy is that I wouldn't even have an issue with the idea of "kissing the ring"-- it's my natural inclination to make sure that Clark and his gen get some respect thrown their way-- if it weren't in favor of this specific attitude. Seriously, f%&k that. I hope Taylor writes his ass off and Jon gets absurdly popular as Superman, and he's also crazy powerful just to make THAT guy mad.

Clarification: THAT guy isn't anyone specific but rather the personification of the most toxic and unreasonable version of a lot of fans.

[Superboy-Prime]

You’re ignoring that they could kill him off or drop him entirely, which wouldn’t be out of character for DC to do. I mean where’s Jace going to show up in outside media, because that’s really what matters these days? He won’t be appearing anywhere, and I seriously doubt that even were they to consider a non-Bruce Batman, anyone is going to go “let’s have Jace take over the cowl”, far more likely they’d make Dick or Damian brown to reflect their heritage better if they want a non-white Batman. I like Jace, I think Ridley has really built him into an interesting character over the last couple issue of Second Son, but I don’t really know what his long term prospects are. If Ridley really knocks a Jace Fox Batman mini out of the park, and then Jace starts showing up elsewhere, maybe he’ll stick around. I just don’t know what his long term prospects are given Bruce is never going away and Jace is a very late addition to the Batfamily (which is already overcrowded).

I very much disagree with you here, Warner Bros. is trying anything they can in terms of films, and The Next Batman would be a very easy film to fit in with the Black Panther niche in terms of a fully African-American cast. Dick or Damian can't do that. Nobody else in the Bat-Family can, other than Luke, but then he'd have been Batman.

I mean, if we're talking Superman & Lois, where Jon has recently debuted, we can look at the CWverse. It's really not unlikely at all for Jace to eventually show up there. Luke exists. Lucius existed.

It is interesting to compare and contrast Jon's relationship with the Superman Family with Jace's relationship with the Batman Family and the fandom as a whole. Jon has a very easy concept to get with, whereas Jace has to earn his stripes like Terry McGinnis did while facing hate from all angles because of a multitude of factors, some unfair.

Jon is, like, totally not better than the OG Superboy, though, so it's no wonder he didn't last long in the role.

[Superboy-Prime]

Oh I think she does. Jace is at a disadvantage because he’s coming into a Family that already has multiple “heirs” to the cowl, and already has multiple non-white members that people like. He’s a latecomer and will always have to struggle with why he as an outsider “deserves” the cowl over someone like Dick, or other black members that Bruce trained such as Duke or Luke. In contrast aside from Diana, the Wonder Family isn’t all that well known or popular. Donna’s a mess, Cassie is cool but sort of redundant since Diana is a daughter of Zeus now as well, Nubia has historically not mattered but they’re going to start pushing her soon (how they’ll reconcile her and Diana’s origin I have no clue), but Yara has a few things going for her. Unlike the others Yara is immediately different in terms of origin, mythological background, and personality. She’s nothing like Diana and has been built deliberately to not be. She’ll be the only “brown”/indigenous member of the Wonder Family which I think will ensure she sticks around.

Uh, I mean, not really? Jace and Yara are both somewhat new characters. Wonder Woman has had Donna and Cassandra Sandsmark as successors. Her design is... Okay, I guess? I like Jon's Superman design better. Like, I could say a bunch of the stuff you're saying about Yara about Jace too.

[Superlad93]

I very much disagree with you here, Warner Bros. is trying anything they can in terms of films, and The Next Batman would be a very easy film to fit in with the Black Panther niche in terms of a fully African-American cast. Dick or Damian can't do that. Nobody else in the Bat-Family can, other than Luke, but then he'd have been Batman.
ted.

I agree. Jace has a very specific narrative, and just changing Dick's race or something does that a grave disservice that's too much to get into in just one post.

The meta narrative of "taking a piece of the pie for yourself" and walking like you belong there is all over Jace and his family's story. His family coming into wealth and power, and him taking over Batman's power are intertwined.

And as I recall, 5G and the aspect of it we're now seeing were created with the intent to see them on screens at some point. I remember that being something greatly talked about, and why they pushed so hard for it. It's also why they hired so many people who worked in film, TV, or cartoons. They want this stuff as "ready made" as possible because the turn over is getting faster.

Swing this back to Jon and Son of Kal-El, Taylor is the creator of the cartoon The Deep, and along with being so popular as a writer, I'm sure his time on a cartoon played into it. That's maybe even why they put him with Timms who has a very animated style?

[Superboy-Prime]

I agree. Jace has a very specific narrative, and just changing Dick's race or something does that a grave disservice that's too much to get into in just one post.

The meta narrative of "taking a piece of the pie for yourself" and walking like you belong there is all over Jace and his family's story. His family coming into wealth and power, and him taking over Batman's power are intertwined.

And as I recall, 5G and the aspect of it we're now seeing were created with the intent to see them on screens at some point. I remember that being something greatly talked about, and why they pushed so hard for it. It's also why they hired so many people who worked in film, TV, or cartoons. They want this stuff as "ready made" as possible because the turn over is getting faster.

Swing this back to Jon and Son of Kal-El, Taylor is the creator of the cartoon The Deep, and along with being so popular as a writer, I'm sure his time on a cartoon played into it. That's maybe even why they put him with Timms who has a very animated style?

Son of Kal-El seems like a good sequel series to Superman & Lois. If the actor is up for playing the character that long.