Superman: son of Kal-El

[Vathlonian]

I feel like there's a very good shot it'll be Jon and Yara, but the general idea of "hmmm, Batman/Superman" may override that, and it may even be *because* of Jace's relatively low relevancy oddly enough. In a strange twist of fate, DC may want to use the new Superman to hype up the new Batman?

If it were Watters, it would be inherently different from the vibe of his FS work. Jon's the one about social change and maybe going a little far, and Yara...well, Yara is kind of stuck doing that Wonder Woman thing where she gets stuck inward gazing at her mythology with no signs of stopping.

I'd rather we just get a Trinity book, honestly. I've never really thought either a Batman/Superman book or Superman/Wonder Woman book had inherently enough steam to call for more than a story arc. But a Trinity book? A Trinity book is basically a three person friend group book that just happens to be about three of the most important people in the world. That's a book that's flexible than BM/SM or SM/WW. It only becomes more interesting when you make it about two 20 somethings and a 17 year old freshmen in college. Like, what is THAT books response when Jon does some crazy sh!t in his book that makes some people in the world nervous? I'd rather the three of them go there than Justice League to be honest. JL: Gods & Monsters showed me that you can make a really compelling team out of just the three main icons.

I don’t think Jace is going to last

Damian Wayne will likely become the new “future” Batman of the team with Yara and Jon rounding out the trinity

[DragonPiece]

I don’t think Jace is going to last

Damian Wayne will likely become the new “future” Batman of the team with Yara and Jon rounding out the trinity

with how much Taylor and Williamson talk about the super sons still, there probably will be more Jon/Damian teamups soon. I do hope we see Jon an Yara interract in continuity soon though.

[sifighter]

with how much Taylor and Williamson talk about the super sons still, there probably will be more Jon/Damian teamups soon. I do hope we see Jon an Yara interract in continuity soon though.

I mean that’s mainly because Damian and Jon are already established best friends and are more likely to hang out then literally every other Bat related character.

Jace only just showed up and is just beginning his career as Batman, we don’t really know how Jace and Jon would begin to interact. I mean Jon would likely meet Jace and say “why are you wearing my friends Dad’s clothes?” Hell we don’t even know how Jace would treat Jon, would he carry Kryptonite or defenses against Jon like Bruce has or would Jace be more cool about it considering he’s lived in a world where Superman has existed for decades.

Whenever they meet, because they will as DC can’t pass up Superman and Batman, it will literally be the first meeting of two very different Batman and Superman.

[Morgoth]

Jon and Jace will cross paths for sure, but it's unlikely there will be some close friendship or something like that, not to mention some team-up series, if that happens, it's more likely will be Super Sons with their current versions.
With Yara yeah, I gues they will try to bring their Future State dynamic into the main continuity.

[Will Evans]

Jon and Jace will cross paths for sure, but it's unlikely there will be some close friendship or something like that, not to mention some team-up series, if that happens, it's more likely will be Super Sons with their current versions.
With Yara yeah, I gues they will try to bring their Future State dynamic into the main continuity.

From what I gathered in Future State Justice League, Jon and Jace were not close. Not like Jon and Yara.

[GSman]

From what I gathered in Future State Justice League, Jon and Jace were not close. Not like Jon and Yara.

Wasn't that by choice? If I'm remembering correctly the JL members in that book didn't know each other's identity and didn't fraternize outside of their JL duties. So while Jon's identity was already public, no one knew who the new Batman was behind the mask. I think that'll be different (if) when they interact in the present day.

[sifighter]

Wasn't that by choice? If I'm remembering correctly the JL members in that book didn't know each other's identity and didn't fraternize outside of their JL duties. So while Jon's identity was already public, no one knew who the new Batman was behind the mask. I think that'll be different (if) when they interact in the present day.

Especially since weirdly enough both are about the responsibility and power that comes through the use of symbols and what they mean in making a message to create a better world.

Jon hoping that his Superman can mean a better world through intervention and questioning what it is he can do for the world while Jace is about taking the symbol he believes to be a misuse of money and privilege by those in power and turning it back on those who would misuse it.

[oddish1]

https://comichron.com/monthlycomicss...1/2021-07.html

For all the talk about the comic's success or failure I'm somewhat surprised there isn't much discussion of the comichron ranking. They have it estimated at about 68,000 but this appears to be a guess based on it being between Spawn at 63,000 and Spider-Man at 75,000. So it might be anywhere between there. My own thoughts are that: If accurate, this is very mediocre debut for a new number one. I was expecting it be slightly higher.

However, there is the 2nd printing to consider which is not reflected in this data. Unfortunately, we don't know how many copies were printed which means we are still very much in dark on its outlook. I'm guessing that it was below 30,000 copies because if it sold 100,000 total then I would think that DC or Taylor would have made a statement on its milestone but that is entirely supposition on my part. I'm going to further guess that it did well overall. Not "great" and not "bad", while this is above the rest of the Superman line it is probably below the sales of the Tomasi & Gleason #1 and almost certainly below Bendis'. At a time when Covid is raising comic sales across the board it does reflect some diminishing returns for the Superman comics. The comic's future success is going to depend on how well it can maintain sales.

I would be very curious to know why the initial order sales were so low. If I had to guess comic book stores were very skeptical of the book based on the low sales of the Superman line across the board and didn't put in many orders based on that.

[Vordan]

Wasn't that by choice? If I'm remembering correctly the JL members in that book didn't know each other's identity and didn't fraternize outside of their JL duties. So while Jon's identity was already public, no one knew who the new Batman was behind the mask. I think that'll be different (if) when they interact in the present day.

Jon and Yara were still close, as were Andy and Jess. The original 5G plans had Jace disliking and distrusting Jon because Damian had gone bad, and Jace was concerned he’d persuade Jon to join him. Don’t know what the relationship will be now if they meet, Taylor seems more interested in having Dick and Jon meet.

[Vathlonian]

Jon and Yara were still close, as were Andy and Jess. The original 5G plans had Jace disliking and distrusting Jon because Damian had gone bad, and Jace was concerned he’d persuade Jon to join him. Don’t know what the relationship will be now if they meet, Taylor seems more interested in having Dick and Jon meet.

It doesn’t help that jace is the oldest member whose also the least popular in terms of sales


Andy, Jon, Damian, Jess, Yara, and arguably tai Pham if they want to include him are all teens or younger

[Superlad93]

Well, unless Yara's book starts over with a new title and new #1 and she starts going by Wonder Woman, a Superman/Wonder Woman book in the near future is unlikely.

Jon and Jace are already Superman and Batman. And with the old Superman and Batman dynamic now being mostly cemented as best friends if not brothers, this new one going back to the Post-Crisis/early New 52 at odds dynamic would be pretty neat.

A fairly simple set up given where the characters are at too. Jon comes to Gotham because he glances over and goes "lol wut, y didn't my dad do LITERALLY anything about that sh!thole?" So he flies over ready to literally overthrow the magistrate and all that, but to his surprise turns out not all the people feel all that oppressed, and it's a much more complex situation than he thought. Eventually Jace comes in to stop Jon for messing up months of his work, and he doesn't particularly like him because Jon may as well be an old money child of privilege who has the means to say how things go for everyone else. Well, not in his town, and not while he's BATAMAN.

The two begrudgingly team up (more so begrudingly on Jace's part. I imagine Jon's going like "holy sh!t I'm in a Batman/Superman team up! Wait...I AM a Batman/Superman team up!!") to stop...I dunno, man, whatever. They leave off with an uneasy truce and Jace hoping that the little man-god stays the hell out of his city.

____________

But, again, I want a Trinity book more than anything. A Trinity book would not only allow for but make great commentary on why Yara isn't Wonder Woman while Jon and Jace are already Superman and Batman. Especially Jon when he's only 17 and she's in her 20s. You could play it more as an anthology that follows these three budding heroes together and separately. Maybe they're only meeting in secret for now? Jon and Jace are political hot buttons for their own reasons and probably shouldn't be seen together, and Yara's still navigating being a hero and doesn't need the kind of heat Jon and Jace may draw before she's even set up. This is where you play with the Future State no secret identity sharing idea (especially now since Jon has one).

The dynamic and the context around these characters makes them inherently more interesting as a dysfunctional unit than the old Trinity was as a functional one. You just kind of play it more like a character driven indie book than a traditional team book.

[Quinlan58]

Including Tai Pham sounds like a nightmare because his story in his solo book can't coexist with Hal's story without massively undermining both of them. Though I guess he could be included through multiversal travel like Jess is. Then again, it's Jo and Kelly the ones who are getting a push in the Green Lantern book now, and it's Jo the one who was in the Future State JL, so I see no reason why Tai would be picked as the New Generation GL in place of Jo or even Kelly.

Future State pushed Jon and Yara as the new World's Finest pretty hard, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if DC replicated that friendship in the mainline. Would be a pretty interesting relationship where Jon is the more experienced superhero but Yara is the more experienced person (by virtue of being older and having lived a life outside of crazy superheroics). At the same time, there's no reason why DC wouldn't try to replicate the popular Superman/Batman dynamic with their successors. Maybe they'll try both and see what sticks. Maybe they'll make a Trinity book with them. Who knows.

[Quinlan58]

A fairly simple set up given where the characters are at too. Jon comes to Gotham because he glances over and goes "lol wut, y didn't my dad do LITERALLY anything about that sh!thole?" So he flies over ready to literally overthrow the magistrate and all that, but to his surprise turns out not all the people feel all that oppressed, and it's a much more complex situation than he thought. Eventually Jace comes in to stop Jon for messing up months of his work, and he doesn't particularly like him because Jon may as well be an old money child of privilege who has the means to say how things go for everyone else. Well, not in his town, and not while he's BATAMAN.

The two begrudgingly team up (more so begrudingly on Jace's part. I imagine Jon's going like "holy sh!t I'm in a Batman/Superman team up! Wait...I AM a Batman/Superman team up!!") to stop...I dunno, man, whatever. They leave off with an uneasy truce and Jace hoping that the little man-god stays the hell out of his city.

Oh man. I'm not saying it's unlikely that this would be the plot of a team up (in fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it were), but this would be such a betrayal of the basic premise of Jon Kent as Superman as the one who intervenes where his father wouldn't. This would be not only Jon agreeing to not interfere with a difficult situation simply because it's difficult, it would also cast doubt on Jon's ability to be Superman if he wants to help improve The World but he can't even improve one city (no matter how complex, it will always be less complex than a country, let alone a planet), and in effect it's Jon walking back on the idea of doing more than his father.

I'm not saying this would make it unlikely (god knows DC wouldn't care about such things), but it would make Jon look pretty bad. Then again, Superman in Gotham almost always makes Superman look bad, so I guess no change there.

[Superlad93]

Oh man. I'm not saying it's unlikely that this would be the plot of a team up (in fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it were), but this would be such a betrayal of the basic premise of Jon Kent as Superman as the one who intervenes where his father wouldn't. This would be not only Jon agreeing to not interfere with a difficult situation simply because it's difficult, it would also cast doubt on Jon's ability to be Superman if he wants to help improve The World but he can't even improve one city (no matter how complex, it will always be less complex than a country, let alone a planet), and in effect it's Jon walking back on the idea of doing more than his father.

Not really. I was fairly vague with the outline. The idea would be that Jace basically says "I got this. I'm actively working on this." It basically functions as more or less satisfactory answer to "soooo Gotham, huh" and lets Jace, well, have a book and things to do. This wouldn't be going counter to what he said to his dad because this would be Jon knowing that he has a peer on the case. But in the case of things like inequality, climate change, and all of the other issues listed, there's little to no direct action being taken-- and certainly no action by his peers.

I'm not saying this would make it unlikely (god knows DC wouldn't care about such things), but it would make Jon look pretty bad. Then again, Superman in Gotham almost always makes Superman look bad, so I guess no change there.

Not really. It's just a way of saying Batman and Superman are doing similar things but on different scales, and this is just respecting Batman doing his thing. Pretty simple "how is Gotham a thing in a world with a Superman who gives a ****" story, but the focus would be to play with and build the dynamics between the characters more than actually messing with Gotham.

Making a Superman/Batman comic or any Trinity comic has to be character driven before anything because out of any book they're in those books would have the least lasting change on the world because they are neither solos or Justice League. So you gesture at big world ideas as a cover for a story that is basically two people getting to know each other.

[Vordan]

I could see the traditional Superman/Batman dynamic being broken in two.

With Damian, Jon is the World’s Finest. They’re like brothers, they bicker and fight but always have each others backs and they trust each other.

With Jace you get the more antagonistic Superman/Batman relationship where the two don’t like each other, don’t trust each other, and watch each other warily.