Superman: son of Kal-El

[Killerbee911]

I remember having conversation in a thread here where people swear that Jon could never be THE superman at DC which is hilarious now that this happen, I played out certain scenarios where DC would do certain things and people were reacting like it was crazy then. Note I am not saying Jon is going push Clark out of picture now. This move is confirming the things I said was appealing about the character and why company would push him for period as THE superman.

It never cross mind that they could make both characters legit "Superman" at the same time. For me it is interesting experiment ,obviously this is not Superman for some of you guys but it could be Superman for other generation depending how they do this. I have seen many comments in this thread about how this can't work but I am literally watching Invincible on Amazon Prime video which basically this very concept working. If I said take Invincible remove all the blood gore and put the one of most recognizable hero franchise as the base do you think it would work?

There is clear blueprint for Jon in Invincible and after watching the show and gobbling up tons of issues. The biggest take away from me is why didn't this catch on big time huge and the only answer was that it wasn't at Marvel or DC. There is a legit lane for character who is Spiderman personality in the Superman format, There is legit lane for stories about Child of the greatest hero learning to grow out of his father shadow into his own hero (which is kinda ironic considering they are giving him the name). This is beautiful irony after years of people taking from DC and Marvel functional using their IP to me this is DC going Jupiter's Legacy and Invincible (probably a bunch of other stuff as well) have done the son of superman as interesting hero and story, We have the real thing here, Why don't we do it ourselves.

There is interest in Superman "BUT" and what I mean is this there is interest in Superman BUT younger and modern, There is interest in Superman BUT dating different people than Lois, There is a interest in Superman BUT maybe a slightly different moral code, There is a interest in Superman BUT not at Daily planet, There is interest in Superman BUT not the Most powerful hero but still a powerful hero. There is an interest Superman BUT not stuck in suit with trunks outside or the old tropes. To get that I once thought they would have to get rid of Clark for a different guy for the "BUT", this option leave Clark in tact for the fans who want him around. I don't know if DC can pull this move successfully good stories is what drives this stuff still but I am 100% certain there is a lane that can be successful with this move.

[manwhohaseverything]

I remember having conversation in a thread here where people swear that Jon could never be THE superman at DC which is hilarious now that this happen, I played out certain scenarios where DC would do certain things and people were reacting like it was crazy then. Note I am not saying Jon is going push Clark out of picture now. This move is confirming the things I said was appealing about the character and why company would push him for period as THE superman.

It never cross mind that they could make both characters legit "Superman" at the same time. For me it is interesting experiment ,obviously this is not Superman for some of you guys but it could be Superman for other generation depending how they do this. I have seen many comments in this thread about how this can't work but I am literally watching Invincible on Amazon Prime video which basically this very concept working. If I said take Invincible remove all the blood gore and put the one of most recognizable hero franchise as the base do you think it would work?

There is clear blueprint for Jon in Invincible and after watching the show and gobbling up tons of issues. The biggest take away from me is why didn't this catch on big time huge and the only answer was that it wasn't at Marvel or DC. There is a legit lane for character who is Spiderman personality in the Superman format, There is legit lane for stories about Child of the greatest hero learning to grow out of his father shadow into his own hero (which is kinda ironic considering they are giving him the name). This is beautiful irony after years of people taking from DC and Marvel functional using their IP to me this is DC going Jupiter's Legacy and Invincible (probably a bunch of other stuff as well) have done the son of superman as interesting hero and story, We have the real thing here, Why don't we do it ourselves.

There is interest in Superman "BUT" and what I mean is this there is interest in Superman BUT younger and modern, There is interest in Superman BUT dating different people than Lois, There is a interest in Superman BUT maybe a slightly different moral code, There is a interest in Superman BUT not at Daily planet, There is interest in Superman BUT not the Most powerful hero but still a powerful hero. There is an interest Superman BUT not stuck in suit with trunks outside or the old tropes. To get that I once thought they would have to get rid of Clark for a different guy for the "BUT", this option leave Clark in tact for the fans who want him around. I don't know if DC can pull this move successfully good stories is what drives this stuff still but 100% certain there is a lane that can be successful.

It's what i said.i am loving invincible as well.But,the bendis run didn't help though neither did some of the other issues in futurestate like sm/ww or even something like justice league.It setup a jon kent with clark kent demeanor.Jon in general should be a lot more messier,energetic...etc.Things like superman of metropolis,jurgen's lois and clark,tomasi's run,pkj's man out of time concept and superman dynasty..etc can all be used to create a fantastic concept.i still wish this was superman we gotten with clark,though.

[HsssH]

I think that what comparisons with Invincible are missing is that Superman, unlike Omni-Man, has decades of history and people are used to him being the star of his franchise. Omni-Man was created to be replaced, Superman was not.

[manwhohaseverything]

That's true.But,then dccomics has done this before.They have replaced what didn't work right from goldenage(Yes,even superman had a shift).That's there modus operandi.Any character is expendable or can be replaced,even batman.If he doesn't work.DC clearly struggles with making superman content.Especially for other platforms.

[Killerbee911]

I think that what comparisons with Invincible are missing is that Superman, unlike Omni-Man, has decades of history and people are used to him being the star of his franchise. Omni-Man was created to be replaced, Superman was not.

Superman(Clark) isn't being replaced tho, and Invincible works with Omni Man around. And for Jon to be successful he doesn't have to be Top Ten or as successful as Clark book. As example what if he does consistently around flash numbers?

There is a lane ,Miles is doing it, X-23 did it. Jon can do it , I mention Invincible just a reminder that bubbly fresh optimistic young Superman like character is working right now without the benefit of the superman name using elements of superman mythos.

[Sacred Knight]

He's not being replaced yet. The word is still very much not out on if they're not easing into a retirement angle for Clark. Clark's side of this story still revolves around this idea that something is going to happen to him in the near future to make him have to stop being Superman, the threat of which is the basis of Jon going on the job sooner than later and starting to share the mantle now. Will they go through with it? Is it something that's going to be stopped from happening? Its a real question right now.

Miles worked because he wasn't impeding Peter. Be it because he was on a different world, or then later because they had their own distinct lore. Nothing done with Miles was done at Peter's expense. X-23 as Wolverine worked, but I mean, who really expected Logan to not be resurrected? It was just a temporary ride till then. And indeed that happened and Laura went back to her original identity as X-23.

Meanwhile Jon is impeding Clark. They're pawning off mythos history on him, and generally making the entire lore revolve around him at Clark's expense. Everything done with him for the past few years now have been to accommodate Jon, not himself. And there's no clear sign yet that the main motivation for doing it all is to return Clark to some prominence later. I mean, I believe wholeheartedly that's exactly what they're going to have to do. But right now I don't believe its their motivation, all signs are they truly think they can make him "the guy".

[manwhohaseverything]

Meanwhile Jon is impeding Clark. They're pawning off mythos history on him, and generally making the entire lore revolve around him at Clark's expense. And there's no clear sign yet that the main motivation for doing it all is to return Clark to some prominence later. I mean, I believe wholeheartedly that's exactly what they're going to have to do. But right now I don't believe its their motivation.

what history did jon get from clark?Legion?Clark hasn't been with legion since byrne reboot.Clark has never been rejected by the titans nor did he ever almost blow them up.Bruce was never part of clark's childhood.damian is for jon.Since,we are on that subject.Jon did better with getting the costume,transitioning into a vigilante as a child(with his parents being reluctant to the whole deal and putting limits),getting rejected,treated like a walking bomb by the league,then going off into the space and then future as part of the legion..etc.This arc blows away secret origins by geoff johns which tried to put back legion with clark.Ultimately,wasn't that good.It was basically just a run down of a plot point,not the characters need in story.Even if we remove legion and give it back to clark.Jon's journey would be still intact as the man of tomorrow or out of time/dimensional shenanigans.He was born on flashpoint universe.He was raised in space on earth-bad by jor el and ultraman on a volcano.they would just have to say he was raised in space. this was basically jon's time skip and training period.

[Sacred Knight]

Clark's Legion ties in terms of the original idea were restored well over decade ago before this. And even in the post-Crisis era they found other ways to develop a relationship there. It is very much not something that's been meaningless to Clark since Byrne.

And I'm not talking about Jon's childhood origin. I'm talking about everything since the age-up and the Superman push.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark's Legion ties in terms of the original idea were restored well over decade ago before this. And even in the post-Crisis era they found other ways to develop a relationship there. It is very much not something that's been meaningless to Clark since Byrne.

It very much is.Neither waid's birthright(Might have given that plot point),superman for all seasons(best postcrisis origin),american alien,byrne..etc.None of them has included legion.They did pocket universe and other things.Then they gave away legion to both kara and conner.So,they can do that.But,they can't do the same with jon?You might not like it or jon.But,if one guy gets something that's passed down.Then it becomes something that can be.Others get it as well.

since we are on it.Heck!i firmly believe siegel's superboy wouldn't have been Boy in superman costume or kid superman.He would have done something like peter pan and something connected to the whole the orphanage clark was taken too.Morrison having legion meeting superman(jeans and tshirt) would be close to that adventure.Heck! i don't think there would be a group named legion like that,maybe something else.Superman was supposed being just a kid running around in jeans and tshirt would have been it.

[Korath]

I remember having conversation in a thread here where people swear that Jon could never be THE superman at DC which is hilarious now that this happen, I played out certain scenarios where DC would do certain things and people were reacting like it was crazy then. Note I am not saying Jon is going push Clark out of picture now. This move is confirming the things I said was appealing about the character and why company would push him for period as THE superman.

It never cross mind that they could make both characters legit "Superman" at the same time. For me it is interesting experiment ,obviously this is not Superman for some of you guys but it could be Superman for other generation depending how they do this. I have seen many comments in this thread about how this can't work but I am literally watching Invincible on Amazon Prime video which basically this very concept working. If I said take Invincible remove all the blood gore and put the one of most recognizable hero franchise as the base do you think it would work?

There is clear blueprint for Jon in Invincible and after watching the show and gobbling up tons of issues. The biggest take away from me is why didn't this catch on big time huge and the only answer was that it wasn't at Marvel or DC. There is a legit lane for character who is Spiderman personality in the Superman format, There is legit lane for stories about Child of the greatest hero learning to grow out of his father shadow into his own hero (which is kinda ironic considering they are giving him the name). This is beautiful irony after years of people taking from DC and Marvel functional using their IP to me this is DC going Jupiter's Legacy and Invincible (probably a bunch of other stuff as well) have done the son of superman as interesting hero and story, We have the real thing here, Why don't we do it ourselves.

There is interest in Superman "BUT" and what I mean is this there is interest in Superman BUT younger and modern, There is interest in Superman BUT dating different people than Lois, There is a interest in Superman BUT maybe a slightly different moral code, There is a interest in Superman BUT not at Daily planet, There is interest in Superman BUT not the Most powerful hero but still a powerful hero. There is an interest Superman BUT not stuck in suit with trunks outside or the old tropes. To get that I once thought they would have to get rid of Clark for a different guy for the "BUT", this option leave Clark in tact for the fans who want him around. I don't know if DC can pull this move successfully good stories is what drives this stuff still but I am 100% certain there is a lane that can be successful with this move.

yeah, I finally got to start reading Invincible and while I don't want Jon's time as Superman to be Mark's story rehashed, it existing certainly gives something great to bounce ideas off. I feel like his Superman of Metropolis book alread had that more "man of the people" vibe, in a sense.

Clark is a human at heart but he also always feel torn by his Kryptonian heritage, at least in my eyes. He is distant from the rest of Mankind, even if he loves it because of it. I feel Jon can mingle more with them because he grew up with a super-dad and his Kryptonian legacy isn't as much off a bagage, more like a family history (kind of like, second generations immigrants can say, "yeah, I've family from over there" but they are from the country they live in, if it makes sense.

[Digifiend]

He's not being replaced yet. The word is still very much not out on if they're not easing into a retirement angle for Clark. Clark's side of this story still revolves around this idea that something is going to happen to him in the near future to make him have to stop being Superman, the threat of which is the basis of Jon going on the job sooner than later and starting to share the mantle now. Will they go through with it? Is it something that's going to be stopped from happening? Its a real question right now.

Miles worked because he wasn't impeding Peter. Be it because he was on a different world, or then later because they had their own distinct lore. Nothing done with Miles was done at Peter's expense. X-23 as Wolverine worked, but I mean, who really expected Logan to not be resurrected? It was just a temporary ride till then. And indeed that happened and Laura went back to her original identity as X-23.

Actually, Laura never stopped being Wolverine. She was wearing the cowl in X-Men Red at the same time as the last X-23 book, and has also been using the Wolverine name on Krakoa. The only reason she used the X-23 name in that last series was because the people she was going after would know her by that name. Cyclops actually called her X-23 in an issue of X-Men, and Laura corrected him, prompting a "you tell him, kiddo", from Logan. They share the Wolverine name now, just like how Peter and Miles are both Spider-Man.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Ugh the worst case scenario is here at last. Basically guarantees Jon will never be anything except a mini version of his dad. I don’t know whether I should be pleased that at least Taylor finally getting his turn on the Superbooks will be confined to writing Jon rather than screwing up Clark, or crushed that Taylor is going to take all the potential and completely waste it. How long before it turns into a stealth Batman/Harley Quinn book I wonder? Oh well.

How do you know Jon will be Clark 2.0 if the book hasn't come out? Is it something Tom Taylor does a lot?

[Killerbee911]

yeah, I finally got to start reading Invincible and while I don't want Jon's time as Superman to be Mark's story rehashed, it existing certainly gives something great to bounce ideas off. I feel like his Superman of Metropolis book alread had that more "man of the people" vibe, in a sense.

I was just point out there is a viable model for success which I am describing as Spiderman if he had Superman powers. I am not saying to rehash Invincible but like I mention Invincible and other stuff have reverse engineer Superman franchise to some level of success which ironically now Superman has a son who can mine these stories which are basically about him. What I am saying is Image has done a lot of R&D for Jon book, It is up to DC to take best pieces just like the other companies took the best pieces of Superman.

[exile001]

I'm certainly interested to see how Superman: Son of Kal-El sells. If it maintains current levels is that an indication of Jon's popularity, that X-number of people will buy any book with Superman on the title or a mix of both? It'd be really interesting to see detailed tpb and digital sales figures as those platforms seem to sell better to younger and newer fans.

On the other hand, I remember the last time DC tried this and sent Superman to New Krypton, replacing him in the main books with Mon-El in one and Nightwing and Flamebird in the other.

[manofsteel1979]

Not to be conspiracy theorist or anything...but I do wonder of this isn't just the next in the line of Warner Bros wanting to secure a version of Superman that they can own lock stock and barrel without having to deal in the future with the Siegel and Shuster estate. Granted, things are supposed to be fine with all parties now,but will that change in the future?

I also wonder if this is somehow related to the fact that if the laws don't change in regards to public domain,that Superman,the Superman from Action #1...aka Clark Kent, will eventually fall into the public domain. Meaning anyone could conceivably publish Superman stories. Maybe Warners wants their own "official" Superman in case that day does come.

Its funny how many times since the later 90s Warners/DC have tried to reinvent the wheel in ways that retain the things they indisputably own (the trademarked "S" emblem,Metropolis, most of the villains and supporting cast etc) while deemphasizing and in some instances removing aspects that their ownership of is in question (the Clark Kent secret id,the original trunked costume, Lois Lane as Superman's love interest etc). It may just come down to creators being bored with certain things and wanting to change for change sake,but it all feels too coincidental if you look at it in a larger meta view outside of the stories themselves.

As for this....I don't know. I'm ok with Clark and Jon sharing the role for awhile,but if DC decides to make Jon the only Superman going forward, I'll probably just bow out for good. To me,Superman is and will always be Kal-El/Clark Kent. Anyone else is a mere pretender. I like Jon as a character and concept,but he will never be Superman no matter how much DC wants it to be. If Clark Kent/Kal-El ever gets pushed out completely, I'm done.