Superman: son of Kal-El

[Mantis-Ray]

I'm starting to realize I saw the Super Sons, in particular Jon, as DC's answer to Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, a book that sold terribly in the monthly sales but sold exceptionally well as trades from bookstores. What Marvel did was the smart business decision and I thought DC would have to forethought to copy the completion's success.

I believe blame for this can be lobbed at Dan Didio since Jon's age-up was due to his 5G initiative where he was planning on permanently replacing all the main heroes with legacy heroes.

And of course when he got fired and 5G cancelled DC didn't correct course and instead continued on with the plans anyway only without the whole one timeline stuff.

So now we're stuck with Jon Superman for however long DC will remain on this legacy kick.

[Quinlan58]

"Jon was aged up because he'd be the Superman of 5G" still confuses me. The whole idea was that there'd be a time skip, you don't need to age anyone up "unnaturally" if there's going to be a time skip soon enough.

But then again DC have made more absurd decisions than that in the past.

[ZuLuLu]

I believe blame for this can be lobbed at Dan Didio since Jon's age-up was due to his 5G initiative where he was planning on permanently replacing all the main heroes with legacy heroes.

And of course when he got fired and 5G cancelled DC didn't correct course and instead continued on with the plans anyway only without the whole one timeline stuff.

So now we're stuck with Jon Superman for however long DC will remain on this legacy kick.

As far as I know, the 5G initiative came from AT&T and was developed by Dan but AT&T changed their minds (because of pushback from other creators) long before Dan was fired. Comics are planned months in advance so they simply could not 'course correct'. That is why there was Future State and Dark Crisis.

As for de-aging Jon, it could happen anytime but DC is not pressed to do so right now, the only time young Jon was really ever popular was in Super Sons and they can publish a Super Sons book at any time with both young Jon and Damian who they have also slowly been aging up.

[Mantis-Ray]

As far as I know, the 5G initiative came from AT&T and was developed by Dan but AT&T changed their minds (because of pushback from other creators) long before Dan was fired. Comics are planned months in advance so they simply could not 'course correct'. That is why there was Future State and Dark Crisis.

As for de-aging Jon, it could happen anytime but DC is not pressed to do so right now, the only time young Jon was really ever popular was in Super Sons and they can publish a Super Sons book at any time with both young Jon and Damian who they have also slowly been aging up.

Huh interesting info.

On another note, I just remembered one of the reasons Taylor made Jon bi is because he "didn't want Jon to be a white savior like his dad"

Which is an interesting statement and could explain at least in part why Jon is so passive in this series. I guess Taylor thinks Jon taking a more forceful approach to things makes him a white savior or something.

[Venomized-spider-man]

Huh interesting info.

On another note, I just remembered one of the reasons Taylor made Jon bi is because he "didn't want Jon to be a white savior like his dad"

Which is an interesting statement and could explain at least in part why Jon is so passive in this series. I guess Taylor thinks Jon taking a more forceful approach to things makes him a white savior or something.

I DESPISE that quote so much (let's forget how making a person Bi doesn't change the fact that he is still a white guy) since Jon is literally the most privileged character in DC comics to the point that one can argue how he got the mantel out of sheer nepotism

He doesn't go through anything humans have to go through life, he doesn't go to college, he doesn't have to pay rent (he lives in a Condo after the farm blew up), All his friends and allies are meta-human, rich and/or people in power not one average person and He has the entire Justice league & hero community constantly backing him up and emotionally rooting for him no matter what he does

he literally a rich white guy telling people to stop a conform to his "Wholesome views"

Compare the Warworld saga to the Gammora saga
-Clark literally interacts, learns, and lives with the slaves and inspires them to rise up and cast off the chains and take back their nation/lives
-Jon literally takes an elite strick force and invades a nation with the Gammorians not having agency at all but becasue he is so wholesome with his boyfriend let's clap and cheer

[HsssH]

I DESPISE that quote so much (let's forget how making a person Bi doesn't change the fact that he is still a white guy) since Jon is literally the most privileged character in DC comics to the point that one can argue how he got the mantel out of sheer nepotism

It is interesting that in early Golden Age Clark was social crusader, but now an argument could be made that his son is champagne socialist.

[Mantis-Ray]

It is interesting that in early Golden Age Clark was social crusader, but now an argument could be made that his son is champagne socialist.

Its that distinction where since Clark is the guy who started the whole thing on his own, that makes him the guy who built himself up by his own bootstraps. By contrast since Jon has so much support and help especially from his successful father, he's kind of arguably the spoiled prince.

Its kind of coddling to be so reliant on veterans like Nightwing for constant help compared to his father who had to figure all this out largely by himself. Its like they want him to be Superman but are unwilling to cast off the training wheels for him.

[HsssH]

And to me that is another argument in favor of kid Jon. We can justify all the privilege and advantages that he has by just saying that oh well, he is just a kid, he'll grow up and learn from his mistakes. And since this is comics he actually doesn't have to ever grow up and we can avoid such conversations entirely.

But now he is grown up, learned nothing and he is modern Clark with, somehow, even less of an edge.

[Ascended]

I'm starting to realize I saw the Super Sons, in particular Jon, as DC's answer to Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, a book that sold terribly in the monthly sales but sold exceptionally well as trades from bookstores. What Marvel did was the smart business decision and I thought DC would have to forethought to copy the completion's success.

You're not wrong, Jon has a lot of appeal to those same demographics.

But I think DC *did* learn the lesson Moon Girl (and Squirrel Girl, Captain Marvel, and others, including some of DC's own characters) taught us. DC just didn't go with the character you wanted them to. But you'll notice that, in the years since Moon Girl set the Scholastic charts on fire, DC has churned out a ton of Young Adult focused bookstore OGN's, most of which have been successful, with some being *wildly* successful. DC focused mostly on the Titans and Harley Quinn for this, but they *have* been branching out into new markets, formats, and audiences.

Jon and Damian have just rarely been part of that, and when they have been used, it hasn't seemed to sell all that crazy well. Personally, I think those projects were aiming at the wrong target; Jon's a Shonen protagonist and DC needs to use him to break into manga markets on the bookstore shelf, not the YA crowd.

[manwhohaseverything]

It is interesting that in early Golden Age Clark was social crusader, but now an argument could be made that his son is champagne socialist.

Eesh!to be fair..i just don't buy into clark having that fire in him in his normal portrayals.The character was more normal middle class dude who goes to the big city.Sure,there are some neat elements of that.But,There is just a severe lack of bibbo bibowski in clark kent for my liking.

[Digifiend]

I'm starting to realize I saw the Super Sons, in particular Jon, as DC's answer to Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, a book that sold terribly in the monthly sales but sold exceptionally well as trades from bookstores. What Marvel did was the smart business decision and I thought DC would have to forethought to copy the completion's success.

Yeah, Moon Girl ran for just short of 50 issues, and next year she'll have a cartoon series (which of course also means her comic is relaunching). Super Sons had it's initial series ended because of Bendis and the age-up, though they did later do two more minis, so I think they realised they screwed up.

You're not wrong, Jon has a lot of appeal to those same demographics.

But I think DC *did* learn the lesson Moon Girl (and Squirrel Girl, Captain Marvel, and others, including some of DC's own characters) taught us. DC just didn't go with the character you wanted them to. But you'll notice that, in the years since Moon Girl set the Scholastic charts on fire, DC has churned out a ton of Young Adult focused bookstore OGN's, most of which have been successful, with some being *wildly* successful. DC focused mostly on the Titans and Harley Quinn for this, but they *have* been branching out into new markets, formats, and audiences.

Jon and Damian have just rarely been part of that, and when they have been used, it hasn't seemed to sell all that crazy well. Personally, I think those projects were aiming at the wrong target; Jon's a Shonen protagonist and DC needs to use him to break into manga markets on the bookstore shelf, not the YA crowd.

There was a Super Sons series in that YA range, but it made a few too many changes (a girl was added to the cast who doesn't even exist in the mainline comics, and Damian for some reason was nicknamed Ian).

[Ascended]

Yeah, Moon Girl ran for just short of 50 issues, and next year she'll have a cartoon series (which of course also means her comic is relaunching). Super Sons had it's initial series ended because of Bendis and the age-up, though they did later do two more minis, so I think they realised they screwed up.

I think/hope they've realized Jon simply doesn't have to be the same age in every adaptation/story. He can be a teen in the main comics, so DC can have their young, hip Superman who also hits some diversity boxes for them. They can have miniseries, flashback tales, Elseworlds, etc., of kid Jon in those same floppy comics. They can have teen Jon in the CW, but still do a kid Jon Super Sons cartoon.

Jon's age and status quo doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both.

There was a Super Sons series in that YA range, but it made a few too many changes (a girl was added to the cast who doesn't even exist in the mainline comics, and Damian for some reason was nicknamed Ian).

Yeah, I flipped through one, hoping one of my kids would like it. Looked rather bland, honestly. Didn't seem like it struck the right tones to appeal to the YA audience, but also didn't hew close enough to the Shonen archetypes that seem to make the Tomasi Super Sons so popular. But they did like, three volumes of it or something so it must have done okay-ish.

DC just needs to put out a proper Shonen style Super Sons manga and sell it on the bookshelf alongside stuff like Dragon Ball and My Hero Academia. If they make a manga, and not a DC comic forcing itself where it isn't wanted, it'll sell.

[DragonPiece]

Finally caught up on this run..really glad this whole Bendix plotline is over. Hopefully the revolutionaries and dreamer character go away along with them, but we'll see. I actually did find Jay's truth channel to be a interesting idea and a fun way to shake things up in place of the daily planet for a next gen Superman, but I do hope with lois on the team now I hope it gains more presitge. Speaking of Jay, I do find his relationship with Jon cute after getting a few issues to see them together. That said, I just really dislike Jay's deisgn and would love to see him get a new look.

I do wonder what the point of all of these teases of Superman being gone from the records at this point in history being mentioned if we know he comes back to Earth, I hope that comes back up as a plot point. Like maybe the united nations decides to start taking him out of historoy or something instead of just being brought up for no reason and only to confuse Jon.

[Jackalope89]

Finally caught up on this run..really glad this whole Bendix plotline is over. Hopefully the revolutionaries and dreamer character go away along with them, but we'll see. I actually did find Jay's truth channel to be a interesting idea and a fun way to shake things up in place of the daily planet for a next gen Superman, but I do hope with lois on the team now I hope it gains more presitge. Speaking of Jay, I do find his relationship with Jon cute after getting a few issues to see them together. That said, I just really dislike Jay's deisgn and would love to see him get a new look.

I do wonder what the point of all of these teases of Superman being gone from the records at this point in history being mentioned if we know he comes back to Earth, I hope that comes back up as a plot point. Like maybe the united nations decides to start taking him out of historoy or something instead of just being brought up for no reason and only to confuse Jon.

Well, duh, its because fakeJon reveals himself to be Homelander from Universe 3, a big battle ensues where fakeJon destroys the Superman name, thus eliminates the name in the history books until time is corrected and the real Jon comes back.

[Robanker]

Well, duh, its because fakeJon reveals himself to be Homelander from Universe 3, a big battle ensues where fakeJon destroys the Superman name, thus eliminates the name in the history books until time is corrected and the real Jon comes back.

Go home, Jack. You're drunk. This isn't the fanfic thread.