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  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Swing this back to Jon and Son of Kal-El, Taylor is the creator of the cartoon The Deep, and along with being so popular as a writer, I'm sure his time on a cartoon played into it. That's maybe even why they put him with Timms who has a very animated style?
    Woah! I did not make that connection. The Deep is a legit franchise, especially the cartoon. It's very, very undeservedly underrated and under the radar, and it really shouldn't be.

    (Is Tom Taylor the person who made The Deep graphic novels, which the series is based off of?)
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  2. #632
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    Woah! I did not make that connection. The Deep is a legit franchise, especially the cartoon. It's very, very undeservedly underrated and under the radar, and it really shouldn't be.

    (Is Tom Taylor the person who made The Deep graphic novels, which the series is based off of?)
    Yeah, didn't really hit me till I saw some love for it on Twitter following the Son of Kal-El announcement.

    He's apparently the head writer and Executive Producer of the series along with being the co-creator of the book it's based on.

    I expect Son of Kal-El to be an extremely clear and readable book that hits the ground running (like Taylor's books often do).
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  3. #633
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    You’re ignoring that they could kill him off or drop him entirely, which wouldn’t be out of character for DC to do. I mean where’s Jace going to show up in outside media, because that’s really what matters these days? He won’t be appearing anywhere, and I seriously doubt that even were they to consider a non-Bruce Batman, anyone is going to go “let’s have Jace take over the cowl”, far more likely they’d make Dick or Damian brown to reflect their heritage better if they want a non-white Batman. I like Jace, I think Ridley has really built him into an interesting character over the last couple issue of Second Son, but I don’t really know what his long term prospects are. If Ridley really knocks a Jace Fox Batman mini out of the park, and then Jace starts showing up elsewhere, maybe he’ll stick around. I just don’t know what his long term prospects are given Bruce is never going away and Jace is a very late addition to the Batfamily (which is already overcrowded).

    Jon isn’t going anywhere though, even if this push fails. The general public knows who he is now thanks to Young Justice and Superman & Lois. Like Damian, being the blood son of Superman gives Jon protection. He’s a key part of the Superfamily now, love him or hate him.
    I doubt Jace is going to be killed off any time soon, mainly because that would be pretty controversial. “Hey everyone remember that big announcement we had of a brand new Batman who would a young black man written by a well known movie writer? Well we killed him off”

    As for outside media presence, I mean his origin isn’t that complicated that you couldn’t put him in an animated movie or tv show. It’s literally he feels guilt for an accidental crime he committed as a kid so he wants to make up for it and later finds a batsuit because his father secretly makes all of Batman’s gear. Pretty easy to translate I would think.
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  4. #634
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    It all depends on sales. Of course, they won't kill anyone, but in the case of Jace, everything very much depends on the sales of this mini or maxi series (don't remember exactly what it is, but I believe that there will be an announcement in the fresh solicits).
    In Jon's case, it's exactly the same. He just has an advantage, because more people know him at least.
    Last edited by Morgoth; 05-02-2021 at 07:49 AM.

  5. #635
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Yikes. I know you. And I know you're just telling the truth of it all, but f$%king yikes. That is very easily the most-- and I don't throw this around lightly-- boomer/gatekeeping/self cannibalizing thing that I've ever heard. It's like a giant toxic spirit bomb with Alex Ross' face plastered over it and held up by hands that have "classic" and "iconic" tattooed on them. And once it's throw the guy who threw it adjusts his glasses with a single finger.
    Yeah, I know right?

    Don't y'all get it twisted; that's not *my* stance, it's just how I've seen the direct market respond to legacy and replacements. We've all seen it, I'm not saying anything we don't already all know. And yeah it's the most boomer/gatekeeping/self-cannibalizing thing ever but that's what the direct market has become and those of us who've been around a while have literally watched this industry eat itself.

    I mean come on, we can't get quality books like The Terrifics to last more than a couple years, there's no chance on earth that the Trinity are going to be successfully replaced over the long-term. Taylor can write the best gods damn comic DC has ever seen and Jon's tenure as Superman is still likely to end within a couple years, because most fans won't bother reading a Superman who isn't Clark.

    Now if we were talking bookstore OGN's? Different story; that's a market that seems very open to new ideas, lesser known characters, and new spins. Jon as Superman in a YA OGN seems perfect for the kind of audience this move would likely appeal to. But the floppy LCS market? It's likely dead on arrival.

    Maybe I'm wrong and this will actually stick. I dunno what the sales were like but the Future State stuff seemed more popular than I had expected it to be, so maybe I'll end up eating crow. As much as I dislike Jon on a conceptual level I'd be happy to be wrong here, because I want forward momentum. But history tells us that Jon's only hope of remaining Superman long-term is if Clark is also Superman, and a bigger and more important one. Which is actually how Future State handled things.....

    It ain't pretty but I'm just telling it like it is.
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  6. #636
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I doubt Jace is going to be killed off any time soon, mainly because that would be pretty controversial. “Hey everyone remember that big announcement we had of a brand new Batman who would a young black man written by a well known movie writer? Well we killed him off”

    As for outside media presence, I mean his origin isn’t that complicated that you couldn’t put him in an animated movie or tv show. It’s literally he feels guilt for an accidental crime he committed as a kid so he wants to make up for it and later finds a batsuit because his father secretly makes all of Batman’s gear. Pretty easy to translate I would think.
    Yeah, he's really underselling the significance of a specifically black Batman and the Fox family's role as the main cast. To WB, that's a goldmine. Cynicism in comics is to be expected, but looking at it from a business perspective, thinking Jace will be killed off is naive.

    It's like Superman & Lois' detractors underselling the potential of the Jon Kent and Jordan Kent storyline. I'm still convinced that Jon being older is synergy with the TV show. I mean, Jon in the show doesn't even have powers yet, but... I think they're coming. If Taylor writes older Jon like the show's Jon I'd be in.

  7. #637
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that Michael B. Jordan has any insight into the project, if they do want him to star, if he's attached in any capacity at all. That said, he's obviously being asked questions about it. And he had one quote recently that to me suggested that in his opinion Clark Kent/Kal-El should stay the way he was conceived and always has been, and that Black Superman, for lack of an actual character name right now, should be someone else. Again this could all be just his personal thoughts because he was asked a question, nothing more nothing less. But his name is attached to the project at least right now by word of mouth, so its something that right now is making me think that they're not race bending Clark in this picture.

    Either way my money is still on Calvin Ellis. You don't even have to go meta or symbolic with the politics angle, its truly right smack in his status quo.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-02-2021 at 11:06 AM.
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  8. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Yeah, didn't really hit me till I saw some love for it on Twitter following the Son of Kal-El announcement.

    He's apparently the head writer and Executive Producer of the series along with being the co-creator of the book it's based on.

    I expect Son of Kal-El to be an extremely clear and readable book that hits the ground running (like Taylor's books often do).
    Okay, then. Thanks!

    Yeah, that is legit cool! Kind of hyped for this writer myself, now.
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  9. #639
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I don't think it's about reinventing the wheel, but rather just making a car for the 21st century, and being legit about it. While Clark has privilege and power, it's primarily individualized, and it doesn't really have much of in the way of direct modern relevance beyond him being white, straight, and a guy. While you could get some solid stuff out off that, when compared to the idea of inheriting power and agency it comes off as more vague and general. There's more of a direct point with Jon, and it speaks directly the idea of People In Power.

    It makes Superman part of a system, and it asks what's he going to do with that power. This is in contrast to how the Golden Age makes him a far less tangible outlier, and makes a point to say that once he's enacted his wrath on who should get it, he's gone just as fast as he came. Again, it's not to say that the Golden Age Superman wouldn't work today because there's still relevance there. It's simple, straightforward, and evergreen. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be "of today".



    Yikes. I know you. And I know you're just telling the truth of it all, but f$%king yikes. That is very easily the most-- and I don't throw this around lightly-- boomer/gatekeeping/self cannibalizing thing that I've ever heard. It's like a giant toxic spirit bomb with Alex Ross' face plastered over it and held up by hands that have "classic" and "iconic" tattooed on them. And once it's throw the guy who threw it adjusts his glasses with a single finger.

    Even if it's a futile gesture I'll support the f$%k out of this just to not let THAT guy and the idea of f%&king "fealty" win. And what's crazy is that I wouldn't even have an issue with the idea of "kissing the ring"-- it's my natural inclination to make sure that Clark and his gen get some respect thrown their way-- if it weren't in favor of this specific attitude. Seriously, f%&k that. I hope Taylor writes his ass off and Jon gets absurdly popular as Superman, and he's also crazy powerful just to make THAT guy mad.

    Clarification: THAT guy isn't anyone specific but rather the personification of the most toxic and unreasonable version of a lot of fans.
    I have to appreciate the dig at Alex Ross representing the older crowd being unable to let go. lol

  10. #640
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I have to appreciate the dig at Alex Ross representing the older crowd being unable to let go. lol
    Always annoyed me how he refused to draw the new gen for DC, but never raised a stink about drawing Miles and Kamala and Sam for Marvel. Either keep that energy for both or grow the hell up Ross.
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  11. #641
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Anybody know if he's going to be rocking the capless look soon? I love capes but his FS look is his best "older" look by a country mile.
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  12. #642
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    Anybody know if he's going to be rocking the capless look soon? I love capes but his FS look is his best "older" look by a country mile.
    It looks like they gave him a cape.Shame.
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  13. #643
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Or we could go for the optimistic third option, we as readers could support all three of them to insure that they have future staying power without having to dethrone any of the characters people like such as Clark, Bruce, & Diana; ie the everyone can potentially win option.

    And as for Jace what I think makes him unique is that he’s built for the role...literally. Even though this is a preexisting character let’s face it and admit that very few people remember him or even knew he existed so John Ridley existentially gets to rebuild him as he’s becoming Batman. While Luke and Duke do exist, and I like both of them, they would run into the same problem as Gordon, Dick, and Azrael if they became Batman, which is that they would just fall back into set roles (Nightwing, Azrael, Police Commissioner, Signal, & Batwing) but Jace is being built up solely to be Batman so they can’t just revert him back to status quo because this is his status quo.
    Nahhh viewers to petty.

  14. #644
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Nahhh viewers to petty.
    Maybe the Jon fanbase. They never could handle stories for big boys.

  15. #645
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Maybe the Jon fanbase. They never could handle stories for big boys.
    IDK why u feel the need to come for & attack a whole fanbase & speak for every single Jon fan on what they can handle it's incredibly uninspired.

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