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  1. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I feel like The World answered Superlad's critique for me, at least by half. The extent to which Kal's MO hasn't always straight up been the concept of in Jon's Brand New Mission Statement is a good amount because is that Superman hasn't always been written to live up to that potential (though I wouldn't necessarily single out post-Crisis to the exclusion of every other take). It is, however, that potential which has always been the character's core ideals.

    In his earliest appearances, Superman is said have "turned his titanic strength to channels that will benefit mankind," and in many stories from many eras, Clark Kent does the same thing, being no less a crusader for justice than Lois is, for all Taylor's decision to laud her influence as a major distinguishing factor between Jon and his dad.

    So why isn't Clark / Superman always Fighting For Change and Making a Difference, over the last eighty-three years? Because he's a cartoon character, my dudes. Because if he lives up to his true potential and fixes our broken world, it wouldn't be social commentary anymore, it'd just be speculative fiction. And that's gonna be equally as true for Jon. This is the elephant in the room here, we all know Jon isn't going to change the world either. Not in real life, not in any way that actually solves the problems Jon and Clark BOTH want to see solved.

    Will Jon's inevitable failure to change the real world from his comic book page result in Superman's grandson one day making the same critique of his father?

    Regardless of the impossibility of success, I like the stories where Superman tries to change the world, and I even like the few imaginary stories or alternate timelines where he succeeds, and I don't think it's unfair to want that history of the character acknowledged by Taylor, and Morrison, and by Jon and Kal.
    Bingo. The idea is cool and all, but I have no faith in DC to actually let Jon change anything (beyond empty hype) for the exact same reason Clark hasn't: DC just loves its "world outside your window" approach too much, and considers it a too important part of their superheroes appeal, to let anything meaningfully diverge from our own world.

  2. #1052
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I feel like The World answered Superlad's critique for me, at least by half. The extent to which Kal's MO hasn't always straight up been the concept of in Jon's Brand New Mission Statement is a good amount because is that Superman hasn't always been written to live up to that potential (though I wouldn't necessarily single out post-Crisis to the exclusion of every other take). It is, however, that potential which has always been the character's core ideals.

    In his earliest appearances, Superman is said have "turned his titanic strength to channels that will benefit mankind," and in many stories from many eras, Clark Kent does the same thing, being no less a crusader for justice than Lois is, for all Taylor's decision to laud her influence as a major distinguishing factor between Jon and his dad.

    So why isn't Clark / Superman always Fighting For Change and Making a Difference, over the last eighty-three years? Because he's a cartoon character, my dudes. Because if he lives up to his true potential and fixes our broken world, it wouldn't be social commentary anymore, it'd just be speculative fiction. And that's gonna be equally as true for Jon. This is the elephant in the room here, we all know Jon isn't going to change the world either. Not in real life, not in any way that actually solves the problems Jon and Clark BOTH want to see solved.

    Will Jon's inevitable failure to change the real world from his comic book page result in Superman's grandson one day making the same critique of his father?

    Regardless of the impossibility of success, I like the stories where Superman tries to change the world, and I even like the few imaginary stories or alternate timelines where he succeeds, and I don't think it's unfair to want that history of the character acknowledged by Taylor, and Morrison, and by Jon and Kal.
    Like I said, the times where Clark does more than just wish he could do more are largely anecdotal in and out of comics when held next to his whole history, and that's built up the perception overtime that he is a defender of the status quo. Not to mention the fact that Dark Knight Returns is one of the most inflectional comics for people who don't read comics, and it has a fairly unfortunate take on Clark.

    In regards to if Jon will actually change the world? No, obviously not the world outside of comics, but aspects of the world inside are fair game. He obviously won't change *everything*, but because DC doesn't always have to be the world outside our window, so chances are okay that he can change some things. But Taylor seems aware of how lofty his goals even in the DCU, and it's why he and both Damian say this isn't as simple as fighting a giant monster, so don't expect it to be solved in a snap (if at all).

    But I feel like the point is being missed here, because I don't think anyone reading will be hard on the boy for not solving everything. Similar to how Batman's quest to Punch Crime In The Face is never ending, but still endearing, you'll still be engaged with the character because of one simple reason: he tries.

    That's all you need out of a fictional hero (or any hero) sometimes. You just need to know that they give enough of a sh!t to actually try in the first place. And defining Jon with this insurmountable problem immediately makes him a bit more endearing in a way Clark usually isn't because even with Jon's powers being greater than his father's, he's the underdog in this endeavor.

    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Oh, yeah...college. Yeesh. He never even graduated middle school, but here come the future retcons.
    Wouldn't really need to retcon anything in this case, right? I mean, it was a fake identity. Whoever Jon was didn't even exist till Damian and Bruce made him, so I don't see why they wouldn't just add "and he totally graduated middle school and high school" to his identification. And as far as Jon's actual smarts go? It's not hard to imagine how that wouldn't be much of an issue for one reason or another.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 07-30-2021 at 10:19 AM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  3. #1053
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/07/30/ex...n-of-kal-el-2/

    Issue 2 preview, looks like Jon tries a fake identity and then immediately botched it. Then it looks like Clark tries to comfort him and gives him his new costume.

    Oh and Lois spotted.
    Awww I freakin love the little dork.

    Love that he storms off by taking his jeep (nice car choice btw) and flying to the moon to sulk.

    So I guess Clark isn't off world yet? I wonder if Action Comics has a time jump of some weeks or so coming soon so that Clark's hair can begin to gray from the radiation and for Superman & The Authority to take place?

    Also you can already feel the issue #1 vibes off this from the get go, and it seems to move along and get more done than this current issue. Hope the readers like it just as much if not more so!
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  4. #1054
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    They like like to pimp out the fact it sold around 30000, which I'd say is about average for most books, but is low for what DC expected for a Bendis book.

    I was a lapsed fan, but caught the wrestling bug again in college when NXT was the super-indie show, but I didn't watch any of WWE's main shows. I watch AEW every week, even their Youtube shows. I loved the dynamic between Eddie and Mox, the love and respect between men that have been fighters their entire lives. And yeah, Bryan and Punk just feel too good to be true. Man, that roster is just so stacked.
    I posted the sales during the Bendis era and I recall Legion sold in the 20k range after the first few issues. Last issue ranked around #80 in the sales chart.

  5. #1055
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    Bingo. The idea is cool and all, but I have no faith in DC to actually let Jon change anything (beyond empty hype) for the exact same reason Clark hasn't: DC just loves its "world outside your window" approach too much, and considers it a too important part of their superheroes appeal, to let anything meaningfully diverge from our own world.
    I don’t know, look at what is happening over in Gotham. The Magistrate taking over is pushing “gritty and realistic” Gotham into a whole new kind of city, deliberately so per Tynion. The DCU seems to be embracing more of its less realistic aspects, and that may hold true for Metropolis as well. I expect Taylor will give Jon a face he can punch tied fo current global concerns.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  6. #1056
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/07/30/ex...n-of-kal-el-2/

    Issue 2 preview, looks like Jon tries a fake identity and then immediately botched it. Then it looks like Clark tries to comfort him and gives him his new costume.

    Oh and Lois spotted.
    Well at least somebody's feeling the negative effects of the second biggest lapse in judgement that Clark's had under Bendis. Just a shame that once again, the one who suffered was his son.

  7. #1057
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    HA, looks like the suit in the big #1 issue cover might not even last 2 full issues. You kinda wonder why they didn't just have the new suit from the beginning.

    It's clearly the "Future State suit with cape" look we saw in a previous DC Connect issue, right? Wish it had Jon's "S" design from his current suit, instead of the classic one.

  8. #1058
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    HA, looks like the suit in the big #1 issue cover might not even last 2 full issues. You kinda wonder why they didn't just have the new suit from the beginning.

    It's clearly the "Future State suit with cape" look we saw in a previous DC Connect issue, right? Wish it had Jon's "S" design from his current suit, instead of the classic one.
    That’s what he was wearing in Superman/WW so might be. I liked that look although I must admit I do wish he didn’t have the cape. I’ve really grown fond of capeless Superman costume variants between Future State and Superman & the Authority
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  9. #1059
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    There are certainly limits to how far DC will let the status quo be pushed, but a climate crisis storyline is somewhere Jon can actually push the status quo in a positive direction AND make it reflect our real world. For a long time I felt that Metropolis never lived up to its moniker “The City Of Tomorrow”—and indeed it looks a lot like America’s other dated 20th century cities. So, what do our aspirational cities of tomorrow look like today? Take a look at Singapore:





    So Jon doesn’t have to “solve” the climate crisis entirely, but he can change the status quo around him in a visible way and inspire Metropolis to become one of the leading eco/smart cities of the world. Not the mention the city really just needs a makeover to make the place more interesting and futuristic.

    And if Gotham is starting to look like something in Future State, then maybe Metropolis will develop into an eco city like in Future State as well.



    It’s a 21st century Superman y’all, give him a 21st century city to fly in.

  10. #1060
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/07/30/ex...n-of-kal-el-2/

    Issue 2 preview, looks like Jon tries a fake identity and then immediately botched it. Then it looks like Clark tries to comfort him and gives him his new costume.

    Oh and Lois spotted.
    Looks like the Kents moved from the apartment to the city suburbs…anyone know if the SJ 87 on the license plate is a reference to anything?

    And Jon wearing a tattered Superman cape and tattered civilian clothing as he tries to figure out his identity is a really nice recurring theme.

  11. #1061
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I'm 1000% for eco green future city! I mean, if Gotham can basically turn into Tron meets Blade Runner...

    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    Looks like the Kents moved from the apartment to the city suburbs…anyone know if the SJ 87 on the license plate is a reference to anything?

    And Jon wearing a tattered Superman cape and tattered civilian clothing as he tries to figure out his identity is a really nice recurring theme.
    No idea about the plates.

    Also I love that the Action Comics #1 homage for Jon is him looking at the car he drove to school in and going "screw it" and flying off to the moon lol

    I really appreciate the build up for all the aspects here. From the secret identity to the mission statement and the friends and teammates that come with it, we're seeing it all get put together piece by piece. Truly Building A Superman right in front of the eyes of the reader, so they can follow along and comfortably cite the hows and whys of this guy in his current state. And maybe most of all, I like the set backs and errors like we see in issue #1 and we see in this preview. It doesn't all just fall into place, and I dig that. Sets the tone for how this job won't be a cakewalk even with his power and connections.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  12. #1062
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I prefer capeless Jon that was like the best thing about his Future State situation

  13. #1063
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    1987 was the year the post-Crisis Superman ongoings started (after Byrne's Man of Steel) and also the year of Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (which similarly had a Superman trying to make meaningful changes in the world).

    I'd find it hilarious if it were a reference to Superman IV. That film would prove itself yet again to be far more iconic for the franchise than it has any right to be.

    As for SJ... SuperJon? Siegel, Jerry or Shuster, Joe?

  14. #1064
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    JON'S GETTING PUT IN JAIL AND CLARK HAS TO BAIL HIM OUT!!! YESYESYESYESYESYES!!!!!

    https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...7Ctwgr%5Etweet




    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  15. #1065
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    Jon's suit is somewhat torn on his left side right above the belt, and on his left forearm. I like that smile too. It's either a nervous smile trying to think how he can explain this to his father or his face is saying "I don't regret what I did and I know I'm not in any real trouble despite what it may look like".

    It's the Future State look (with cape) after all. I'll miss the unique S-design.

    Taylor hyping up first appearences to make sure to keep the retailer market interested.

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