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  1. #1081
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Golden Age Superman could afford to do that because he had a secret identity. Once he puts on the glasses and takes off the costume the cops and corrupt officials have nothing they can do to him or anyone he loves. Jon Kent's address is on file along with everyone related to him. It's a whole different ballgame for him.
    I don't think clark would have stuck around even if he didn't have secret identity...I mean,what would be the point..Who wants to get arrested anyways..I mean,you would lose your freedom.Clark was a lovable rascal in a sense.The whole robin hood business.


    But you are right.Clark is too selfish.Besides,clark wanted to do the right and be amongst people.He wanted to get into trouble and keep himself together/alive.You know the whole dreams speech.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  2. #1082
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Depending on what he's in for, I can totally see Lois and Clark telling him he done good or goofed and I'm interested to see how this unfolds.
    May we never forget:

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    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  3. #1083
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Depending on what he's in for, I can totally see Lois and Clark telling him he done good or goofed and I'm interested to see how this unfolds.
    I can see it now.Lois would try to be strict with jon with "this is not how responsible adults behave" .Clark would try to act really angry and stuff.Then be like "Atta boy! that's my son" being proud.

    but,if otherwise (the postcrisis characterisation of " i hate vigilantes.The law of the land is supreme")Then jon can show him a newspaper article of good ol superman stuffing a guy in trashcan(byrne), breaking into a governers office(goldenage),jumping from a building with a dubious rich guy scaring him..Various videos shot by jimmy,lois..etc of superdickery throughout his lifetime including that time in a restaurant (donner movies).
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-30-2021 at 10:33 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  4. #1084
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    Thanks! I’ve felt that Metropolis as a setting never lived up to its full potential. If it’s going to be the City Of Tomorrow then it should always be on the cutting edge of technology and urban design—but also have an element of danger lurking behind its pristine surfaces. If anyone knows any good worldbuilding stories about Metropolis please help a friend out and drop some suggestions!

    And I think Jon wanting to effect change gives him a mission statement separate from his dad’s but also gives a story reason to update some Superman concepts.
    Honestly one of the best (and most depressing) analysis’s of Metropolis that I read came from the first issue of The Other History of the DCU by John Ridley. Black Lightning talks about his experience living in Metropolis as a black man, particularly Suicide Slum, and I thought it was fascinating. But otherwise I like Metropolis in Morrison Action Comics, under Bendis, Johns and Busiek, and others. But it’s never equaled what you see with Gotham.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  5. #1085
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I can see it now.Lois would try to be strict with jon with "this is not how responsible adults behave" .Clark would try to act really angry and stuff.Then be like "Atta boy! that's my son" being proud.

    but,if otherwise (the postcrisis characterisation of " i hate vigilantes.The law of the land is supreme")Then jon can show him a newspaper article of good ol superman stuffing a guy in trashcan(byrne), breaking into a governers office(goldenage),jumping from a building with a dubious rich guy scaring him..Various videos shot by jimmy,lois..etc of superdickery throughout his lifetime including that time in a restaurant (donner movies).
    Really? I think Lois would grin ear to ear and tell him he did good with Clark trying to be the voice of reason before cracking and saying he's proud his son stood against bullshit.

    Okay, if I'm being entirely honest, they'd both do their job as parents and tell him there are better avenues to fight his battles... before telling him they're proud of him.

    Both of them feel very strongly about toppling bullies and rooting out corruption. If Jon got put in jail over that, they'd both see it as him pushing the right buttons, albeit parent mode would kick in and tell him he has to find better solutions for his fight. But they'd be proud he's doing something.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  6. #1086
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Really? I think Lois would grin ear to ear and tell him he did good with Clark trying to be the voice of reason before cracking and saying he's proud his son stood against bullshit.

    Okay, if I'm being entirely honest, they'd both do their job as parents and tell him there are better avenues to fight his battles... before telling him they're proud of him.

    Both of them feel very strongly about toppling bullies and rooting out corruption. If Jon got put in jail over that, they'd both see it as him pushing the right buttons, albeit parent mode would kick in and tell him he has to find better solutions for his fight. But they'd be proud he's doing something.
    We have a different superman and lois in our heads.Clark just ain't the strict parent or moralising one who gives speeches.I am sure lois would be proud of him doing right.But,she was the cynical one and more "no bullshit figure".Clark was too goofy,easy going one to be strict(the whole sitting on the cloud thing). someone needs to be strict with the kid.Even superman with all the debonair flair
    and scare of zorro intact, isn't gonna be that.

    As you said and i agree,I am sure they won't approve.they might even suggest there is "better" way.I am sure jon would say they might be right.I mean, tomasi's run was about that.But,jon would say he can't live in the world of "might and might not" as he needs to figure things his own way.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  7. #1087
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    I saw someone mention boycotts or something to that degree I can't really find the post now but despite my harsh attitude towards Clark and towards the writers I'm actually glad this all happening. I have no intention of boycotting anything. A Superman wrapped in the trappings of the Silver Age with the attitude and mindset of the Golden Age Superman surpassing the Post-Crisis Superman in every imaginable area is beautiful irony. Made all the better that he is the one thing the Post-Crisis fans wanted most dearly a progeny of his and Lois who has actually benefitted from how little either of them have raised him so he couldn't inherit the same awful homespun wisdom that turned Clark into the weak person that he is.

    Meanwhile Clark to some degree seems to be accepting that he just never had a spine in the first place. Guy wasn't even willing to try and thus definitely not the guy Siegel and Shuster came up with and definitely not someone anyone would ever aspire to be like making his whole goal of being an inspiration figure completely pointless. In the ultimate act of irony it's Batman not Superman who became the inspirational figure of the Post-Crisis era. Maybe some time in space away from the Earth will allow him to finally learn to try again.

    I think Clark being able to see that trying is not the end of the world will be good for him and finally relinquish him of the brainwashing Martha and Jon clearly did on him that made him such a coward. And can we finally stop patting Ma and Pa on the back for accomplishing the bare minimum with Clark? They should not be praised that he didn't grow up to be a sociopath.

    It just blows my mind that this guy was literally too afraid to even try and his fans defended him for years for it.
    Last edited by The World; 07-31-2021 at 06:08 AM.
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  8. #1088
    Fantastic Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Really dig the idea of Jon being tossed in jail for causing trouble for the establishment. However, what i don't want to see is Clark continually bailing him out, literally and figuratively, as a recurring theme. I'm dying to see the reaction from the parentals in this next issue though, very cool potential...

    Also, mark another one for capeless Jon look.
    "There is nothing quite so perfect as the exact way in which comics combine the word and image." --Alan Moore
    "Before it was a Bomb, the Bomb was an Idea. Superman, however, was a Faster, Stronger, Better Idea." --Grant Morrison

  9. #1089
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    This is just reminding me how Jordan on SM&L was recently arrested in the latest episode...totally different circumstances, granted.

  10. #1090
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Frog Bros View Post
    Really dig the idea of Jon being tossed in jail for causing trouble for the establishment. However, what i don't want to see is Clark continually bailing him out, literally and figuratively, as a recurring theme. I'm dying to see the reaction from the parentals in this next issue though, very cool potential...

    Also, mark another one for capeless Jon look.
    Clark leaving Earth is probably in part to make it so that won’t happen. Jon will have to handle his screw ups on his own going forward soon enough.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  11. #1091
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Yeah! that's for the best...Jon can actually grow up..be on his own.

    You know it's funny.his dad can hold secret identity with a pair of glasses...effing glasses..Jon can't with all that fake hair and other things..
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-31-2021 at 10:44 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  12. #1092
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    They’ve never been consistent about including “The American Way” for a long time. DC even had Superman renounce his American citizenship Pre-Flashpoint. The reason why is that it’s something that either needs to constantly be readdressed and re-examined the way Steve Rogers is constantly re-examining what it means to be Captain America, or else it’s too vague and ambiguous a notion to really be accepted at face value anymore. What is “The American Way” after all and why is it a good thing? People have all sorts of different ideas of what it means and some of those aren’t good. PKJ says he wants to “reclaim” it and be more explicit about it standing for American ideals not American reality. He hasn’t done that yet, we’ll see if it comes into focus in future issues.

    But Clark’s original slogan was just Truth & Justice, and there was another variation of Truth, Justice, and Tolerance which Yang used recently in his Batman/Superman run. Both of those are just as good for me.
    I don't think it needs to be constantly readdressed or re-examined for either Superman or Captain America (and that idea is beyond played out for the latter); as if anyone writing these books means for it to stand for jingoism or anything like that. If PKJ is serious about what you say, that would be excellent and much appreciated.

    I think people who get hung up about what "The American Way" means are missing the forest for the trees.

    Truth & Justice is good; Truth, Justice, and the American Way is better. Yang's variation is fine, but I actually think Jon's is better; not that Tolerance is bad but I think I think both the other two incorporate that idea.
    Does it need doing?
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    Then it will be done.

  13. #1093
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    They like like to pimp out the fact it sold around 30000, which I'd say is about average for most books, but is low for what DC expected for a Bendis book.

    I was a lapsed fan, but caught the wrestling bug again in college when NXT was the super-indie show, but I didn't watch any of WWE's main shows. I watch AEW every week, even their Youtube shows. I loved the dynamic between Eddie and Mox, the love and respect between men that have been fighters their entire lives. And yeah, Bryan and Punk just feel too good to be true. Man, that roster is just so stacked.
    I didn't expect Bendis to blow up sales, but I hoped his work would be stronger. I can't remember what issue I dropped Legion on.

    I love the mix with ROH and NJPW, it makes it feel expansive and man does NJPW have some gorgeous belts. If Bryan and Punk are in, I'll be a regular viewer again.
    Does it need doing?
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    Then it will be done.

  14. #1094
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    There are a lot of things from the 50s and 60s that can be kept or discarded.it's a subjective choice.The first-time clark was putting the "american way" symbols was in the cover of 14 written by Siegel.And i believe the radio show coined it.As said,i don't think they would have minded it.but,how can superman be part of anywhich way?when the guy himself isn't much of an oustanding citizen..He is at the end of the day an outlaw(their characterisation of superman).On top of that,superman was and is being used for propaganda when having it same as removing it.if your problem is politics in comics.It's just superman ain't making the same statement he did in 60s and 70s..Removing it atleast means superman is an independent agent.

    I am for creator's choice on property.i am firmly of the mind that siegel and shuster did support the american's and alied forces during the war.That being a long term statement of nationalism or worse jingoism was not.

    Yeah! He is preachy about that too(alien invasions and mad scientists).As said,No personality what's so ever Mr jesus.The guy hasn't been entertaining with all the paternalistic "thou shall" nonsense.I would take superman as action hero if there was stakes,good action,great scifi concept/philosophy..etc.Not boring lectures about" i am so good... everyone should be like me" nonsense and moral grandstanding.Here's a news flash, the guy ain't better than you,me or anyone in the crowd. .As said,he is part of the society.Making a mess is part of being human.As said,deal with good or bad consequences.Like us normal folks do.Think up solutions and try acting it out.superman had the moral courage to make mess once upon a time ,to take hitler and stalin by their neck

    Superman hasn't produced a good action series since max fliescher cartoons.Tas was all over the place with some good moments.It was mediocre series to bad and nothing close to batman tas or heck!batman beyond.That death of superman movie had some long duration of fights.But,nothing too noteworthy.Superman sucks as an entertainer..You know why shonen battle serie work(your question in one piece thread?luffy makes a mess btw)cause there is some bonkers action.Superman is just a flying bland brick and villains are made bland as well.meanwhile,We are gonna get a series about a guy with chainsaw for head.we had a stories about super alien parasytes.stuff like that.
    Yeah, it's absolutely subjective, I'd rather keep it. I think Superman can stand for the American Way because he embodies the pinnacle of the American ideals. I don't think there's anything political about Superman standing for the potential of America - if he started spouting blatantly left or right leaning ideas, then I'd be on the same page.

    It doesn't have to get to the level of nationalism or jingoism, I think that's missing the point.

    Does he really give "everyone should be like me" speeches? How will Jon make a better world without moral grandstanding? He's better in that he could do harm but chooses to do good. People who do good are better than people who do harm.

    You misunderstand me if you think by "make mess" that I meant dealing with tyrants - I meant, stepping in and telling people how to live their lives or proposing a solution to a global problem that doesn't have global support.

    Luffy hardly counters my point - he's making a mess in his own world with it's own history and cultures. Presumably, Superman would make a mess in a world like our own, so we would be better able to assess if the story makes sense.

    I read manga too and I understand the advantages it has over comics, but that's not what we're talking about, or at least that's what I thought.
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  15. #1095
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    There are certainly limits to how far DC will let the status quo be pushed, but a climate crisis storyline is somewhere Jon can actually push the status quo in a positive direction AND make it reflect our real world. For a long time I felt that Metropolis never lived up to its moniker “The City Of Tomorrow”—and indeed it looks a lot like America’s other dated 20th century cities. So, what do our aspirational cities of tomorrow look like today? Take a look at Singapore:





    So Jon doesn’t have to “solve” the climate crisis entirely, but he can change the status quo around him in a visible way and inspire Metropolis to become one of the leading eco/smart cities of the world. Not the mention the city really just needs a makeover to make the place more interesting and futuristic.

    And if Gotham is starting to look like something in Future State, then maybe Metropolis will develop into an eco city like in Future State as well.



    It’s a 21st century Superman y’all, give him a 21st century city to fly in.
    This would be cool.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

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