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  1. #2281
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    Those are my observations anyway, feel free to critique! People want a different artist on the book, I think it needs a different editor to properly help organize and hone Taylor's ideas. I want a great rogues gallery for Jon but I don’t think Taylor is going to be the writer that builds that lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Great analysis! Yeah Bendix is being undercut as a villain at every turn by how Taylor is handling this. Other than vague “Bendix is very bad and mean to refugees” there’s no real context for why we should hate him, nor has he really managed to strike a blow at Jon in any way. If this is truly all just build up to Jay breaking bad than maybe that will be better handled, but there need to be more done to establish what is at stake here. I don’t expect Taylor to manage to build up a Rogues Gallery either, he’s a weak writer for villains and especially for Superman Rogues.
    I think it ultimately has to be build up for Jay going bad, but that doesn't excuse how hard Bendix is undercut. One could be forgiven for not even remembering he's the villain. Even if he's just a means to an end, Bendix's prime objective should be opening up a new side of the DCU and Superman world. There should be dark room meetings with Bendix and world leaders. We should be seeing first hand how he's turning these people into weapons. Jay's rage and unresolved trauma should be at the forefront since we literally just found out that he was experimented on by Bendix last issue. The scale of this book should feel global. We should be talking geopolitics more than sitting down for a meal at Kent farm.

    A Superman who deal with real social and political issues in the DCU should be such a fun book to write. You're basically writing a high concept political thriller. Averted assassination attempts, Superman having to toe the line between the rule of law and what's right, classic villains recontextualized as hired guns for big corporations, trying to get bills passed by saving kidnaped government officials, and so on.

    Also, give Jon a damn supporting cast rather than just promoting your original characters from other books. That shit was tacky.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  2. #2282
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Bleeding Cool Bestseller List

    This is the Top Ten Bleeding Cool Bestseller List, as compiled by a number of comic stores from their sales on Wednesday and Thursday. It measures what is known as the "Wednesday Warriors", those who can't wait till the weekend to get this week's comics. Though thanks to DC, Tuesday Titans too.

    Top Ten Bleeding Cool Bestseller List of the week

    Batman #117
    Superman Son of Kal-El #5
    Moon Knight #5
    Amazing Spider-Man.BEY #78
    Dark Ages #3
    Robins #1
    Nightwing #86
    Justice League #69
    X-Force #25
    Batman vs Bigby #3

    Rodman's Comics: Batman of course took the top spot. Superman Son of Kal El enjoyed an increase in sales for having the same sex kiss. Some people did drop the title. I still remember the Northstar coming out issue from decades ago.

    Ssalesfish: Besides Batman being the obvious victor of the week based on the sheer number of subscribers we have for it, there's a few surprises this week. Bisexual Superman didn't have the impact we thought it would.

    Graham Crackers Comics: Superman Son of Kal-El did very well, but couldn't take Batman off the top spot.


    Full article: https://bleedingcool.com/comics/batm...stseller-list/

  3. #2283
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I mean the issue was very lackluster from start to finish, the art didn't help. Jon's whole 1st kiss with a dude was lackluster honestly.

  4. #2284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Bleeding Cool Bestseller List

    This is the Top Ten Bleeding Cool Bestseller List, as compiled by a number of comic stores from their sales on Wednesday and Thursday. It measures what is known as the "Wednesday Warriors", those who can't wait till the weekend to get this week's comics. Though thanks to DC, Tuesday Titans too.

    Top Ten Bleeding Cool Bestseller List of the week

    Batman #117
    Superman Son of Kal-El #5
    Moon Knight #5
    Amazing Spider-Man.BEY #78
    Dark Ages #3
    Robins #1
    Nightwing #86
    Justice League #69
    X-Force #25
    Batman vs Bigby #3

    Rodman's Comics: Batman of course took the top spot. Superman Son of Kal El enjoyed an increase in sales for having the same sex kiss. Some people did drop the title. I still remember the Northstar coming out issue from decades ago.

    Ssalesfish: Besides Batman being the obvious victor of the week based on the sheer number of subscribers we have for it, there's a few surprises this week. Bisexual Superman didn't have the impact we thought it would.

    Graham Crackers Comics: Superman Son of Kal-El did very well, but couldn't take Batman off the top spot.


    Full article: https://bleedingcool.com/comics/batm...stseller-list/
    , "Some people did drop the title" this worries me because I think they were fans of the characters , then when this excitement passes the curious will abandoned the title , we need the fans to continue Not that "they drop the title" , But i'm Happy because at least Superman is in second
    Last edited by Betinayen; 11-22-2021 at 07:57 AM.

  5. #2285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I mean the issue was very lackluster from start to finish, the art didn't help. Jon's whole 1st kiss with a dude was lackluster honestly.
    I really agree here, An art I don't like and the fact that I don't understand what Taylor wants to do with this title also bothers me, Jon so far is doing random saves Bendix is ​​a mediocre villain but I think that Jon has incredible potential.

  6. #2286
    Incredible Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Jon kissing a guy is probably the best sales this book will ever have. Well, maybe if he marries Jay it'll sell more. I hope Kathy gets invited.

  7. #2287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Jon kissing a guy is probably the best sales this book will ever have. Well, maybe if he marries Jay it'll sell more. I hope Kathy gets invited.
    your gonna have to let kathy go

  8. #2288
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Somehow only just now occurring to me after looking back at Bendis' run on Superman, Legion, and Future Sate: Legion, but it seems that the idea for Jon's powers and how they were different from Clark's was that Jon would likely be physically more powerful than Clark or other Kryptonians, but he'd also be physically less durable and more susceptible to permanent physical harm.

    This was floating around for a while



    Note the "scar to remind he's half human". A lot of us assumed this meant that Jon would be physically less capable than Clark, Kara, or Zod, but the text before gears shifted away from 5G didn't support the idea of a weaker Jon. By all accounts during Bendis' run Jon was at least just as power as his father, aunt, and uncle.


    But since Bendis never got to get around fully to what Jon was going to be like, we never got a full picture. However, I firmly believe that Rogol Zaar represents what Jon is capable of at his very best. Zaar himself was conformed to be a Kryptonian at the end of the Unity Saga when he was shown being harmed by kryptonite. The implication seemed to STRONGLY suggest that Zaar was Clark's half brother and Jor-El's son. And due to this Jor-El wanted to make sure he guided Jon-- another half Kryptonian with similar potential.

    Now notice how even though Zaar is Kryptonian he's-- similar to Jon-- confirmed to have damage on his body uncharacteristic of a Kryptonian.




    Note how it says "wounds which would have killed any mortal, but his hatred and hunger for vengeance keep him alive". If this were Clark or Kara then they'd have healed without so much as a scratch.

    To add onto this, we see an alternate future where Jon is now fully grown and he's missing an eye and an arm yet Clark is unharmed and unchanged. Again, the implication here seems to be that Jon's durability isn't up to par with a normal Kryptonian's.




    ______________

    So then what was Bendis' plan? Well, if the idea is to set up Zaar as a cracked mirror of what Jon could be then you have have to go under the assumption that Jon would've also had strength comparable to Zaar's. And if that were the case then Jon would've had the might to single handedly take on MULTIPLE full grown and full powered Kryptonians. However, like Zaar, Jon would be something of a glass canon. Wonder Woman said it herself in Bendis' run, Zaar would fallback as a solder would to regroup. And he'd also relay on food to sustain him along with the sun. Bendis made a point to really show Jon as a hungry kid.

    But then what about the durability? Well, that's where Future State: Legion comes in. Over in that book Jon is strangely seen in full head to toe armor. We assumed it was a fashion choice, but that seemed to be a slightly older Jon (going off his facial hair) who maybe started to understand how his powers worked more, so maybe he opted for armor to make up for his less than Kryptonian durability?

    I'd even bet that Bendis did at one point intend to make Jon an amputee similar to his possible future self from Clark's vision. And I'd be willing to be that it was going to be how he originally intended to close out Jon's Legion days.

    Jon having a prosthetic arm would do a few things. For one, it would make him visually distinct from Clark (and his other family members), always remind you that his durability isn't quite up to snuff, function as a direct callback to his Legion days (and act as a homage to when Lighting Lad lost his arm. I mean, Bendis already had Jon date Saturn Girl so why not also get that moment from him too?), it would act as Jon's version of Miles' bioelectricity in the sense that it would be an extra power (via tech) that Clark didn't have.

    And it would've added in some diversity/representation to Jon (and the Superman family). That's an amputee getting to still be not just Superman but "The One True Superman". And going back a ways I remember Bendis really wanting to push for Jon the member of the Superman family with "special needs" (his exact words). Making Jon the member of the family who is not only missing a limb, but physically more vulnerable than the rest does in fact mirror the idea of a special needs child in the relative sense. You inherently worry about him more. But also making it so he's the family's glass canon because he's physically the strongest like Zaar and his arm and tech give him powers that the other's don't leave you with that idea of empowerment.

    Honestly I think the imagine of Latina Wonder Woman, Black Batman, and disabled Superman would've really be striking and empowering. And I know some didn't like it, but I genuinely LOVED the scene in Morrison's Action Comics where Clark has to put on the armor fortify his durability against the Collator and Metallo. Superman is known for his spotless imagine thanks to his durability. He's known as indestructible. So having the new Superman be someone who can bleed, break, and needs rest yet keeps going and "earns" his durability via the armor and sheer grit is interesting. A Superman who wants to put on the same "if you stand behind me nothing's gonna hurt you" air, yet feeling the blows in ways that Clark never would is pretty compelling.

    This shouldn't be taken as a "dig" at the choice to make Jon bi as his "badge of diversity", but rather it's a genuine observation that similar to how Jace (who would've been Luke in 5G) would challenge the imagine of Batman's power (ie his white old money) by being a black man coming from newly formed generational wealth, Jon being an amputee/disabled Superman challenges Superman's power (ie his physically indomitable body). And it's not to say that Jon couldn't have been both disabled and bi, but it's not a direct challenge to the idea of Superman's defining power like being disabled could've been.

    From the looks of things, I honestly think Bendis put in more thought to what Jon's show of diversity would've been than Taylor did.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  9. #2289
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betinayen View Post
    , "Some people did drop the title" this worries me because I think they were fans of the characters , then when this excitement passes the curious will abandoned the title , we need the fans to continue Not that "they drop the title" , But i'm Happy because at least Superman is in second
    Jon being bi was always going to be a turn off for some.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post

    From the looks of things, I honestly think Bendis put in more thought to what Jon's show of diversity would've been than Taylor did.
    Not that that’s too hard to do but yes I think you’ve got the gist of it. I think it would’ve been an arm and an eye, give Jon some serious “battle damage” to really differentiate him from Clark. Wonder what the plans were for the Superdaughter? Funny how close we’ve come to getting her twice now.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  10. #2290
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Not that that’s too hard to do but yes I think you’ve got the gist of it. I think it would’ve been an arm and an eye, give Jon some serious “battle damage” to really differentiate him from Clark. Wonder what the plans were for the Superdaughter? Funny how close we’ve come to getting her twice now.
    I don't think "battle damage" would be the correct term nor do I think he'd also have his eye taken away like in Clark's vision. I think it would just be the arm to keep within the very, very clear homage to Lightning Lad getting his arm taken, and in that classic story it's not at all framed as a "battle damage" or even a "battle", but rather just an accident. It's nearly identical to the idea of someone becoming an amputee because of a car crash or something similar. It's really worth stressing that Bendis used the term "special needs" when describing Jon even in relation to Clark. And since this wasn't a mental thing, it had to have been in relation to Jon's physicality.

    I also doubt the "Superdaughter" was ever really going to be a thing. Early on when asked about her and asked about if Lois and Clark would have another child Bendis said that there were no plans for her or one. I'd have assumed that maybe Bendis was going to use the 5G time shift to basically replace kid Jon with the daughter as a sort of amends for kid Jon, but that doesn't seem to have been the idea. Could've been cool to see Jon teaching a younger sibling the way their dad taught him thus recpaturing some of that Rebirth Super family spirit but without making the Superman in question an actual dad.

    ___________

    There's honestly so much you could've done with an amputee Jon. Not just in his eventual Superman book, but also in Legion. Just off the top of my head, his dynamic with Mon-El would've been even more interesting. Though generations of interbreeding Mon-El was born in Jon's line and is confirmed to have all of the powers of Clark at his best and that would include invulnerability. Mon believes that Jon shouldn't even be part of the the Legion when they have him. The distinction between them becomes more clear because not only does Mon look physically similar to Clark, but-- unlike Jon-- his face has not a single scar or imperfection on it. Yet as a person he's petty, arrogant, and a little ugly especially compared to Jon.

    The turning point could've been Jon finally tapping into what makes Zaar as a half Kryptonian so physically strong. Then eventually when Jon gain's Mon's respect they become a sort of "sword and shield" combo. Mon's durability and Jon's physical strength. So when the two eventually fight the now thousand year old Zaar-- now as the Persuader-- they'd be doing an unstoppable tag team combo where Mon tanks hits and Jon fires back at Zaar.

    It's just really annoying to think about now. The idea you could've really made such a visually striking and diverse Trinity. Black Batman, Latina Wonder Woman, and amputee Superman.

    Also, as a small aside: it's pretty smart of Bendis to make it Jon's left arm that would've gotten taken. Like most characters in fiction, Jon's assumed to be right handed because more often than not an artist with favor the right hand of a character for the big haymaker shot. This would bring on the possible impression that Jon's power as Superman comes from his prosthesis alone. You essentially save the left for special tech related moves, and keep the right for general super punches. Once again, this was well thought out in a way that's actively making me sad to not see.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 11-22-2021 at 10:06 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  11. #2291
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    I don't see why they couldn't make Jon a special needs child as well as bisexual. Diversity isn't exclusive, and I think it would add to his story if he was missing his eye and his natural arm.

  12. #2292
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monari View Post
    I don't see why they couldn't make Jon a special needs child as well as bisexual. Diversity isn't exclusive, and I think it would add to his story if he was missing his eye and his natural arm.
    Because that's very, very likely not what they're building towards anymore. He's now far and away too powerful to be damaged like that, and his ability can't be described as potentially lacking anymore given that they're gotten rid of the scar that denoted that.

    Him being queer most certainly came up as an idea after the switched gears from him being potentially disabled given the fact that when that was on the table he was confirmed to be set for a relationship with Jenny Sparks. The choice to make him so powerful is without the drawbacks he would've had is likely to signify empowerment rather than making the Superman's queer son the runt of the family.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  13. #2293
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Something like this is what I'm hoping DC has the balls to put out. Making his attraction to both men and women common place and not a big deal.

    Likely not with Yara given the fact that they seem to want to not recreate the New 52 Superman/Wonder Woman idea with Jon and Yara. And that's likely why Yara is in her mid 20s and already in a relationship with some dude. I'm thinking Jackson may end up being Jon's "New 52 Wonder Woman".

    However, if they do pair Jon up with another woman in the near future or have her act as the Veronica to Jackson's Betty and Jon's Archie then I'd REALLY like for her to be a body type you couldn't really romantically link with Clark.

    In particular I'm thinking like a Big Barda 7 foot type of woman with the build of Abby from Last of Us Part II. It's not really something most writers or editors want to see from Clark because they really like him being physically imposing, but right of the bat Jon's much more slim and shorter than Clark. That's actually something that makes Jon being the most powerful member of the family all the more striking. He's the least imposing (even Kara is drawn to be physically imposing for the average woman) and most laid back. So setting up one of his love interests as a more conventionally physically imposing woman would be a nice visual and fun contrast in dynamic.

    Like if there were a love triangle Jackson would be the sweet awkward one while this hypothetical 7 foot girl would be the sporty extravert.

    Hey, maybe even make her a Phaelosian? Maybe Thao-La's friend? Then you also get to play more with the sibling thing between Jon and Thao since.
    Or even given the prevelance of Gamora and Bendix, why not actually do the idea of Jon and Jenny Sparks... well technically I guess it would be Jenny Quarx now
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  14. #2294
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I hated that Scar so much.... Then again I hated everything Bendis did with Jon, but taht scar specifically I hated with unrelenting fury.

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