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  1. #916
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    I don't think that one line should be used to determine the entirety of their current relationship, nor do I think it implies what you think it does.
    Oh I know. Williamson was just throwing us a bone, just like the kid Jon cameo in the first issue, but that one line is the only thing that actually addresses the fact that things have changed between them. Everything else pretends nothing has changed as if Jon was always 17 and Damian 14.

  2. #917
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    All those interviews sound great. So much exciting superman content lately, can't wait to read issue 1 of this. And it really is great to see people geniunely excited for a new Jon Kent storyline thanks to Tom Taylor writing this, hopefully this finally gives aged up Jon some slack among the kid Jon fans.
    Oh this thread is pretty much showing that among the hardcore it won’t (although kryptonian has weirdly stopped saying it will fail in 8 issues). I think this series will moreso win over people who were never fans of Superman at all by virtue of being a new guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Crazy thought, but what if it's Morgan Edge? I mean, the show, right? And he fits all of that pretty well.

    But I just can't shake this feeling that Hank Henshaw fits so well. We even see him in the Action Comics annual, and Future State Worlds of War says that the Kent farm was destroyed by a cyborg.

    And we haven't seen Henshaw in a role like this before, but we've clearly seen the likes of Lex, Edge, and even Trojin (who is so knew we don't know anything else but this for him) in similar roles. The whole thing could end with Jon putting him in the Phantom Zone especially since he's now got the Fortress for himself.

    Basically a commentary saying "you're not what Superman stands for. I am."
    Henshaw is so lame though. Maybe it’s him but he doesn’t really fit the whole “national pride” vibe. If Taylor wants to give him to Jon though I’m all for it, he’s one foe I don’t mind at all of Clark “loses”.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  3. #918
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    Re-reading the interview and this line stood out to me: “We'll see Jon stepping up but also, he's not going to be perfect at it. He's a seventeen-year old and a person who has come from a lot of trauma.”

    We don’t know how much the Earth-3 stuff is going to be referenced, but I’m happy Taylor’s acknowledged that Jon comes from a background of childhood trauma. It would be fascinating to see if that ends up informing any of Jon’s psychology or his decisions. The book’s pretty open on addressing real world injustices, and I can imagine him going into a righteous fury over migrant children being separated from their parents.

    And just from the way Taylor talks about this series, it feels like this run (or at least this current arc) is a whole event to itself with promises of big status quo changes, not just “Here’s a new younger Superman to go to college and punch a villain of the week”. Go big or go home, right?
    Last edited by oneveryfineday; 07-26-2021 at 08:10 PM.

  4. #919
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    I'll just say this: it didn't read like someone who said "My friends either left me or grew up too fast."

    But I'll sulk while you have your fun.
    Now that doesn't sound like damian at all...he's gone to hell and came back .

    Damian is always challenging jon to be super..I haven't seen anything wrong with interactions with jon and damian under pkj or taylor.I don't feel it's editorial or whatever.it's serving the direction they are going.that's it.
    Super-sons where stagnant for a while now..i am glad it's up and running.maybe they can do a teamup book again. Down the lane.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-26-2021 at 08:08 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  5. #920
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Stagnant? It barely lasted two years. That's like getting angry the seed you planted didn't bear fruit. You gotta give these things time to grow and develop.

  6. #921
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    Stagnant? It barely lasted two years. That's like getting angry the seed you planted didn't bear fruit. You gotta give these things time to grow and develop.
    Then it had repeat runs that were boring.I am sure tomasi's hands are tied.But,even if kid jon returned.How is the dynamic going to be?Jon left feeling rejected from titans.Feeling weaker.what do you do?a training arc or something.Moreover,jon had been dependent on clark and damian his entire life.Now,clark is saying you do you son and be a your own superman.damian is saying dude punching ninjas though awesome is easy...you are freaking superman.

    Also,the only thing annoying about this issue is lack of mention of kathy.i.wish someone would have tweeted that at taylor and hamilton...
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-26-2021 at 08:23 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  7. #922
    Just Call Me Gar garazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Then it had repeat runs that were boring.I am sure tomasi's hands are tied.But,even if kid jon returned.How is the dynamic going to be?
    I don't know. That's a very interesting question. I'm sure a competent writer will come up with something.

    Jon left feeling rejected from titans.
    I see you have the reading comprehension of Bendis. They didn't let Jon join because they had several issues they had to work on and they couldn't let someone else join if they themselves couldn't get along. If anything, Damian was the one that felt most strongly about the rejection.

    EDIT: Actually, having just re-read that scene cuz I have the trade on my shelf, both of them feel kind of dejected, but it actually served to highlight just how fond of Jon Damian had grown. I think some just ascribe way too much weight to something that didn't actually matter all that much.

    Feeling weaker.what do you do?a training arc or something.Moreover,jon had been dependent on clark and damian his entire life.
    Yeah, that's how it works. Given enough time, he would've stood all on his own. Dick Grayson was dependent on Batman for a long time before he became his own man.

    Now,clark is saying you do you son and be a your own superman.damian is saying dude punching ninjas though awesome is easy...you are freaking superman.

    Also,the only thing annoying about this issue is lack of mention of kathy.i.wish someone would have tweeted that at taylor and hamilton...
    I'd rather hear about Jon's schoolmates from Hamilton and West-Reeve Academy, but that's just me.
    Last edited by garazza; 07-26-2021 at 08:43 PM.

  8. #923
    Superman and Wonder Woman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    There's also the fact that, as a few posters in this board have pointed out, the very status quo he'll have in this run is something that absolutely couldn't be done with Clark. He'll be teenage Superman in college with a public identity. That is absolutely something that wouldn't be done with Clark because it would make his classic status quo (Superman masquerading as mild-mannered reporter Clark Kent) impossible.

    That said, I do have my doubts of how much longevity Jon as Superman has with his announced status quo. It's a great update to the classic status quo, but as soon as that "edge" is lost, as soon as the stories pull back from clashing with the powerful and dealing with global warming because editorial wants to change his image or it's too controversial or they've told the story and don't want to be repetitive or whatever reason... well, he goes from modernized Clark to just Clark-lite, and thus redundant.
    Sure you can, it's called elseworld or an imaginary story. That's the whole point of those concepts. I find differentiating between "main" canon and "elseworld" is really jedi mind tricks. They're both doing the same job; adding to the history and mythos of these characters. I may hate, Act of God and Superman: Distant Fires, I cannot deny they're apart of the characters' history. So yes, the idea cannot happen in "main" canon, but it can happen in a Superman story. Just as Kurt Busiek did with Superman: Secret Identity.

  9. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Which one?there are many.The knockoff argument is stupid.. Then there is only one superman-the original one .also,ip had been about clark kent/kal el for the longest time.Superman was just a thing to be done.It wasn't treated as titular identity.So saying "clark/kal is superman" when the guy doesn't do cool shit a superman does,makes no sense.Heck!a superman is not defined,while clark and kal well fleshed out.i would appreciate something that centers around superman for while.

    Look. It's not my fault people have gotten the secret identity wrong.

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It’s not that you can’t, it’s that people get upset when Clark doesn’t conform to the Byrne model. When he doesn’t just go “I must not interfere”, when he’s more skeptical about peoples ability to get their stuff together, when he has a bit of edge to him like in his early issues, people freak out. They take it as a sign that he’s about to become evillll because that’s usually how those stories go, or they reject it as being out of character for him. I mean for God’s sake, DC wouldn’t even let him drink ALCOHOL as a grown ass married man once upon a time. There’s just some hard limits, not inherent to his character, but applied onto him because of his pop culture image and peoples own perceptions of who he should be.
    Pop culture images change over time. Look at the degeneration of Wonder Woman image in pop culture that's happening. Look at the dark state Batman is in. Look at the rise of evil Superman analogues. James Bond was once seen as the man's man, and look at what they're doing in No Time To Die. They're tearing down James Bond.

    Jon doesn’t have that. He doesn’t have a set LI he has to end up with, or a personality he must adhere to, or an operating method, he can do something as simple as casually curse in a way that Clark just can’t (remember that store owner who freaked out because he though Clark said “goddamn”?) There’s no real preconceptions aside from the most basic, he wears the S-shield, he helps people, he’s optimistic and idealistic.

    Jon was given it the moment he was conceived. DC already knows they can't go too far with the Son of Superman, they know readers already have ideas about who Jon Kent should be as Superman. That's why Tom Taylor is saying the right things, because they know they're walking a fine line.

  11. #926
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    I don't know. That's a very interesting question. I'm sure a competent writer will come up with something.



    I see you have the reading comprehension of Bendis. They didn't let Jon join because they had several issues they had to work on and they couldn't let someone else join if they themselves couldn't get along. If anything, Damian was the one that felt most strongly about the rejection.

    EDIT: Actually, having just re-read that scene cuz I have the trade on my shelf, both of them feel kind of dejected, but it actually served to highlight just how fond of Jon Damian had grown. I think some just ascribe way too much weight to something that didn't actually matter all that much.



    Yeah, that's how it works. Given enough time, he would've stood all on his own. Dick Grayson was dependent on Batman for a long time before he became his own man.



    I'd rather hear about Jon's schoolmates from Hamilton and West-Reeve Academy, but that's just me.
    With what?with same banter over and over again..i am not seeinh the point or where it's going.

    I don't need comprehension of bendis.i only need reading comprehension of my 10 year old nephew.They were both dejected.They can hide it all they want.But,that was the last actual development with damian and jon.And that wasn't the first rejection jon faced either.He was treated like a weapon that could blow up by jl in the start of tomasi's run.clark was asked to train jon because of it.Clark and lois did it begrudgingly.He did blow up and took the titans tower with him..Then nothing?that kinda thing leaves an impact.look jon completed his arc of "superheroics isn't a kids game" from super-son#1(fainting at the sight of dead bodies) with him getting tortured by Manchester black,him getting rejected constantly,him blowing up,killing cat..etc and a whole lot of other things constantly happening.Heck! The kid couldn't even get out of the situation because the villains where constantly after him due to whose son he was.what else do you want the kid to do?go to school?he is doing that now.Only the age is different.


    No,he wasn't.dick grayson was created because batman was a stick and couldn't appeal to young demographics.especially,kids.Dick could have been batman anytime he wanted. You don't gazillion years for that.He could have been batman by the 60s and 70s.jon had similar amount of time.Also,supes was just dropped in the middle of action..with some panels and lines for origin.that's him at his best. This is fiction. You don't need coming of age story for every character.Moreover,it would be like tomasi advocating a kid as superhero
    Which he clearly never did.He was saying the opposite.


    People here are just grieveing loss of kid jon's age.Not jon kent the character.I will say otherwise if jon isn't the fun,goofy, adventurous, mischievous..etc guy in the run.Superman of metropolis has jon messing up trying to do what's right.If that's not jon kent or superman.Then i must have been reading something else.

    Jon's friends in west-reeve was forgettable..it was just a mundane back drop for the real adventure jon and damian where having.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-26-2021 at 09:34 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  12. #927
    Incredible Member Astralabius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garazza View Post
    I'd be inclined to agree with that, but the side that tends to get brought out is "editorial mouthpiece" and not "friend who keeps it real with his bestie."

    The majority of Damian's dialogue suggests to me it was written by someone who thinks Damian views Jon as Superman and not his best friend. Damian is the exact opposite person who would say "Suck it up and accept fate" because that's something Damian's been fighting and struggling against. The closest to Damian being in-character is that last panel in the BleedingCool article.
    I was also thinking this the last time they had Damian show up out of nowhere under PJK. That's not Damian or Jon's friend, that's just DC's mouthpiece trying to convince us that aged up Jon as the new Superman is a good idea.
    Why would Damian say to Jon that becoming Superman is his duty and that he has no choice when he himself just had a massive falling out with Bruce and is currently trying to find his own way again? It makes zero sense for where the character currently is.

  13. #928
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Pop culture images change over time. Look at the degeneration of Wonder Woman image in pop culture that's happening. Look at the dark state Batman is in. Look at the rise of evil Superman analogues. James Bond was once seen as the man's man, and look at what they're doing in No Time To Die. They're tearing down James Bond.
    Clark’s has been resistant to change outside of “what if he were EVILLLL?” stories. I mean hell look at how we ended up here: they murdered the New 52 Superman to replace him with the Byrne guy as written by Dan Jurgens one of the architects of the Triangle Era. Rebirth was as big of a throwback as you can get. And people were not happy about a lot of the recent changes, such as Clark outing himself. Lots of fans would love to roll everything back yet again.
    Jon was given it the moment he was conceived. DC already knows they can't go too far with the Son of Superman, they know readers already have ideas about who Jon Kent should be as Superman. That's why Tom Taylor is saying the right things, because they know they're walking a fine line.
    What do you consider “too far”? Because for some it’s Superman interfering at all with human affairs aside from protecting people. Jon is not going to abide by that per Taylor, and even in the interviews the whole pitch isn’t that Jon will be a chip off the old block, but that’s he’s going to push the limits. He isn’t as mature as Clark, he isn’t as hands off, he isn’t as set in his ways, and he’s going to anger people (with the implicit message being some readers will be upset as well). I’m sure some people will be angry because Taylor is a left-wing guy and that’s definitely going to show itself with regards to Jon tackling climate change.

    I’m honestly shocked because Taylor did write Jon as being Clark Jr. in DCeased, and I did think he was going to do that here. But he’s saying he won’t. We’ll see if he actually lives up to that.

    Could they do all of this with Clark in an Elseworld? Of course and they have at times. But not in the mainline outside of Morrison and Pak’s Action runs. The potential here is that if Taylor succeeds, THIS is going to be the baseline for who Jon is as a character, which means they can’t revert him back like they do with Clark.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #929
    Incredible Member billee0918's Avatar
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    Fantastic first issue! Taylor does a great job with Jon’s voice and Tim’s art is super. Bring on the next chapter!

  15. #930
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    First issue was alright. Pretty standard first-issue setup.

    I groaned a little though with the other heroes saying "he could be the greatest hero ever". Just tell the story.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

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