Superman: son of Kal-El

[Vordan]

Uh, I mean, not really? Jace and Yara are both somewhat new characters. Wonder Woman has had Donna and Cassandra Sandsmark as successors. Her design is... Okay, I guess? I like Jon's Superman design better. Like, I could say a bunch of the stuff you're saying about Yara about Jace too.

Yara is an addition to a “Family” that outside of Diana herself has never been very popular or well known. Jace is not, Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, all of these are far more well known and popular. It’s disingenuous to pretend the two are anywhere near the same level of popularity.

I very much disagree with you here, Warner Bros. is trying anything they can in terms of films, and The Next Batman would be a very easy film to fit in with the Black Panther niche in terms of a fully African-American cast. Dick or Damian can't do that. Nobody else in the Bat-Family can, other than Luke, but then he'd have been Batman.

Not with Batman they aren’t. Reeves Batman seems to be a very traditional take, and everything points to them being fully invested in whatever he does. Keaton Batman will be mentoring Batgirl and maybe even Batman Beyond down the line. There’s been no inclination they’re considering what you’re saying, and everything else starring Batman features Bruce in the titular role. Their “Black Panther” attempt will be Static, GLC, or the Superman reboot.

I mean, if we're talking Superman & Lois, where Jon has recently debuted, we can look at the CWverse. It's really not unlikely at all for Jace to eventually show up there. Luke exists. Lucius existed.

It is interesting to compare and contrast Jon's relationship with the Superman Family with Jace's relationship with the Batman Family and the fandom as a whole. Jon has a very easy concept to get with, whereas Jace has to earn his stripes like Terry McGinnis did while facing hate from all angles because of a multitude of factors, some unfair.

Jon is, like, totally not better than the OG Superboy, though, so it's no wonder he didn't last long in the role.

Jace could easily show up in the CWverse, that’s true, but I doubt it will happen. If the CW gets Batman I pretty much guarantee it’s going to be a traditional Bruce Wayne take. Why? Because Bruce Wayne is still insanely profitable and popular. He’s singlehandedly keeping DC afloat in terms of comic sales. Their attempt at replacing Kane with Wilder has been a flop, doubt they’ll try something similar with Bruce.

They’re doing all this wild stuff with Superman because Clark hasn’t kept up with Bruce, while still being popular and profitable for them. Hence the film reboot, this stuff with Jon, etc. Batman isn’t in the same position, especially with a Bruce Batman film franchise poised to take center stage for the next decade. Maybe you’re right and I’m wrong, maybe what you’re saying is indeed how it will play out and after Reeves and Pattinson are done we’ll get a Jace Fox Batman film, but I doubt it honestly. Feel more like they’ll just keep rebooting Bruce Batman forever.

[Frontier]

Jace could easily show up in the CWverse, that’s true, but I doubt it will happen. If the CW gets Batman I pretty much guarantee it’s going to be a traditional Bruce Wayne take. Why? Because Bruce Wayne is still insanely profitable and popular. He’s singlehandedly keeping DC afloat in terms of comic sales. Their attempt at replacing Kane with Wilder has been a flop, doubt they’ll try something similar with Bruce.

They even just cast a Bruce Wayne actor.

Although I don't think they'd bring in any Batman into Batwoman unless they're planning to pull a Supergirl -> Superman and Lois, although I think Fox nominally has the TV Batman rights for the most part? I forget.

[Superboy-Prime]

Yara is an addition to a “Family” that outside of Diana herself has never been very popular or well known. Jace is not, Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, all of these are far more well known and popular. It’s disingenuous to pretend the two are anywhere near the same level of popularity.

Not with Batman they aren’t. Reeves Batman seems to be a very traditional take, and everything points to them being fully invested in whatever he does. Keaton Batman will be mentoring Batgirl and maybe even Batman Beyond down the line. There’s been no inclination they’re considering what you’re saying, and everything else starring Batman features Bruce in the titular role. Their “Black Panther” attempt will be Static, GLC, or the Superman reboot.

Yes, Jace debuted as Batman 4 months ago. I don't get your point.

WB labeling Pattinson's Batman as being on Earth-2 doesn't really seem like fully invested to me. Seems like they're willing for multiple takes on the character.

Superman: Son of Kal-El is really gonna have its work cut out for it after all the cynicism circling the comic book community, growth and new characters are now seen as flavors of the week instead of genuine additions.

[Vordan]

They even just cast a Bruce Wayne actor.

Although I don't think they'd bring in any Batman into Batwoman unless they're planning to pull a Supergirl -> Superman and Lois, although I think Fox nominally has the TV Batman rights for the most part? I forget.

Apparently WB owns the TV rights, which makes sense because how could Titans have Batman if they didn’t? I’m sure even if Fox did own the rights, Disney buying them out would’ve provided an opportunity for the rights to return to WB.

[Vordan]

Yes, Jace debuted as Batman 4 months ago. I don't get your point.

WB labeling Pattinson's Batman as being on Earth-2 doesn't really seem like fully invested to me. Seems like they're willing for multiple takes on the character.

Superman: Son of Kal-El is really gonna have its work cut out for it after all the cynicism circling the comic book community, growth and new characters are now seen as flavors of the week instead of genuine additions.

What does that matter? It’s a completely arbitrary label to explain that it’s not tied up in the main universe’s dumpsterfire. I hardly think taking place outside the Snyderverse is a mark against Reeves in the eyes of WB. If you want to believe they’re prepping a Jace Fox film, far be it from me to argue otherwise, I couldn’t care less and this conversation feels like it’s going in circles.

[Superboy-Prime]

What does that matter? It’s a completely arbitrary label to explain that it’s not tied up in the main universe’s dumpsterfire. I hardly think taking place outside the Snyderverse is a mark against Reeves in the eyes of WB. If you want to believe they’re prepping a Jace Fox film, far be it from me to argue otherwise, I couldn’t care less and this conversation feels like it’s going in circles.

I never said they were doing that. I don't even think that. But Reeves' Batman isn't going to be their sole movie Batman, and The Flash film is likely to reboot Earth-1. WB isn't like Marvel, they're happy to have alternate versions of characters galore, I wouldn't be surprised if Jon Kent shows up in the movies soon.

[Vordan]

I never said they were doing that. I don't even think that. But Reeves' Batman isn't going to be their sole movie Batman, and The Flash film is likely to reboot Earth-1. WB isn't like Marvel, they're happy to have alternate versions of characters galore, I wouldn't be surprised if Jon Kent shows up in the movies soon.

Superlad did suggest the new reboot could star Jon. I could see that, something like the Invincible show, with Lois being of another race and Jon as their black son taking over the mantle (I say Lois because if they were going to make Clark black I think they’d just make him the main hero, and there’s no way Coates is writing anything other than a Black Superman). It is possible that’s what they’re planning, and it would explain the Jon push. Guess we’ll find out.

[Superboy-Prime]

Superlad did suggest the new reboot could star Jon. I could see that, something like the Invincible show, with Lois being of another race and Jon as their black son taking over the mantle (I say Lois because if they were going to make Clark black I think they’d just make him the main hero, and there’s no way Coates is writing anything other than a Black Superman). It is possible that’s what they’re planning, and it would explain the Jon push. Guess we’ll find out.

I disagree with him, I'm pretty sure it's President Superman.

[garazza]

I'm really starting to despise all of these comparisons to Invincible because, in all likelihood, it is completely coincidental that Jon was aged up and Invincible got a show. The way animated shows and comics get made are very different, making it difficult to coordinate anything, and literally no one could have predicted how popular the show would be.

For me personally, I hate the fact that DC is probably going to try and ape off the success of the Invincible show when they already were doing something new and different by giving Lois and Clark a kid. If I wanted to read about a young superhero adjusting to the responsibilities of adulthood and superhero-dom, I would just read the actual Invincible comic. DC was ahead of the curve with Jon as kid because they could grow him into the next big coming-of-age character. Instead, DC threw away probably their best idea in 10 years in favor of what will only be seen as cheap knock-off.

[Superboy-Prime]

I'm really starting to despise all of these comparisons to Invincible because, in all likelihood, it is completely coincidental that Jon was aged up and Invincible got a show. The way animated shows and comics get made are very different, making it difficult to coordinate anything, and literally no one could have predicted how popular the show would be.

For me personally, I hate the fact that DC is probably going to try and ape off the success of the Invincible show when they already were doing something new and different by giving Lois and Clark a kid. If I wanted to read about a young superhero adjusting to the responsibilities of adulthood and superhero-dom, I would just read the actual Invincible comic. DC was ahead of the curve with Jon as kid because they could grow him into the next big coming-of-age character. Instead, DC threw away probably their best idea in 10 years in favor of what will only be seen as cheap knock-off.

Haven't seen any comparisons to Invincible. Seems pretty different, though, he has an evil dad and is fighting a space Empire built of his own race, right?

[Superlad93]

I no longer think it'll be Jon, and I'm glad for it.

But I also doubt it'll be either President Superman or Val.

Chances seem good that it'll be a race bent Clark, and that'll be what it'll be. They certainly won't have the good sense to make this an update of Superman Secret Identity where the main character is black, named Clark after the fictional character, and discovers Superman-like powers. THEN the meta narrative has room to be its own thing without ineptly confusing the literal alien heritage with the modern experience being black. You'd then show the most direct version of Superman's story going beyond the socially constructed confines we deal with and hitting on the real **** inside of us.

This also frees you up to make a less inept and potentially dumb as hell black to alien link by adding the degree of separation of "I feel like an alien even though this is supposed to be my home, and I'm like everyone else around me." Then there's meat to those bones. There's something very powerful to say there.

But it's more likely it'll just be Kal-El and they'll ineptly confuse the metaphor and end up saying something that'll ultimately be offensive.

[rpmaluki]

Superlad did suggest the new reboot could star Jon. I could see that, something like the Invincible show, with Lois being of another race and Jon as their black son taking over the mantle (I say Lois because if they were going to make Clark black I think they’d just make him the main hero, and there’s no way Coates is writing anything other than a Black Superman). It is possible that’s what they’re planning, and it would explain the Jon push. Guess we’ll find out.

Zack Snyder did want Zoe Saldana as his Lois before Amy so this is a probability. With Clark's over arching story now including Jon and identity reveal, it's easier to keep moving forward with his story and using Jon is inevitable. Race bending Lois, gives them their cake and helps them eat it too. You get a black Superman, son of Kal-El doing all the things today that DC/WB mistakenly thinks Clark is now too outdated to do even though that's how he started.

[garazza]

Haven't seen any comparisons to Invincible. Seems pretty different, though, he has an evil dad and is fighting a space Empire built of his own race, right?

Guess we run in different places.

[Vordan]

I disagree with him, I'm pretty sure it's President Superman.

Would be cool but I doubt it. That movie would need to be political as hell and I don’t know if WB is up for another controversial take on Superman (although given Coates’ involvement I don’t see how this upcoming reboot can be anything but political as hell and controversial).

Zack Snyder did want Zoe Saldana as his Lois before Amy so this is a probability. With Clark's over arching story now including Jon and identity reveal, it's easier to keep moving forward with his story and using Jon is inevitable. Race bending Lois, gives them their cake and helps them eat it too. You get a black Superman, son of Kal-El doing all the things today that DC/WB mistakenly thinks Clark is now too outdated to do even though that's how he started.

Yep I’ve been thinking about that, she was on the shortlist. The Black Son of Superman would probably be more acceptable pitch, and would explain the Jon push.

[Superlad93]

If it's a birical Jon (which I now doubt) then it's a slightly less potentially problematic idea, yeah. But it does almost totally defang the concept from digging into some good stuff about privilege, and puts in its place what would likely be an okay story that goes something to the tune of "people see Superman looking like that. I don't look like that. How can I be Superman???" It's a house of cards of an idea that no one will likely look too much closer into because it'll have some nice moments and side step confusing the discrimination metaphors they would with a black Clark.