Superman: son of Kal-El

[Betinayen]

No need to apologize! I'm sure everyone who gets into these discussions get some sort of fun from it.

I just feel dumb because I'm over here with my dinky little theory for the book while all this is going on lol

please tell us your theory

[Yoda]

I'm still operating under the idea that DC doesn't count digital sales and only cares about physical pre-order sales.

At least over 2020, digital sales grew significantly, pandemic and all. They are still less than physical, but they grew to like $120 million from 90 million or something. We really don't have any idea what DC's sales are regardless, since they don't release them.

[Blue22]

No need to apologize! I'm sure everyone who gets into these discussions get some sort of fun from it.

I just feel dumb because I'm over here with my dinky little theory for the book while all this is going on lol

Oh please don't let us stop you, man. We may disagree but I do enjoy hearing from you. Like I've said before, you're really good at making all this sound better than what I think it actually is lol

[Myskin]

Kinda curious as a Jon detractor, what do you think will happen if he flops? Because I can’t see them making a big deal of Jon as Superman and then deaging him (totally agree that Rebirth is the past) or even killing him off.

It depends on what you mean by "if he flops". I guess that you are referring to the regular title, which IMHO will have relatively good sales for at least one year (and no matter what it sells, I have a feeling that it always be higher than Action Comics).
Well... That's a huge issue. It's another problem with superheroes' children. In addition to all the other potential issues they create, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to get rid of them. Superman titles can stay for a very long time without ever mentioning Supergirl or Kon-El, but it is quite hard to stay without the son of the main character.
One thing's for sure: they are not going to kill Superman's son. That's basically impossible. Sometimes I wonder how the hell Grant Morrison could think that he could seriously kill Damian once and for all after several years of building him as a character. A dead son, for God's sake! It would have added some unnecessary angst for an already grim character for whom the only real, iconic death is his parents'.

Here's the deal though. If they really, really wanted to get rid of him, they could kill him AFTER retconning him as something different from Superman's son. For example, if they said that Jon is actually a fake son created by Brainiac together with fake memories or some **** like that they could have him die - maybe in some glorious act of self-sacrifice. There's an interesting detail - as far as I remember, we never saw any single moment of Jon growing up except for his birth. Which means that they could use some fake memories/timespace shenanigans to retcon him. So... If they wanted they could find a way to kill him, but only after making him something different from Superman's son. It's convoluted, but they could do it.

Of course, it's not impossible for them to de-age him, even if I have thoroughly explained why it is unlikely IMHO. By the way, I am not familiar with Franklin Richards' growth, but as far as I know his "iconic" version is the superpowered kid one. Also: I guess that Franklin Richards had been a kid way for several years before they planned to make him an adult. Which means that the kid version was the "regular" one. As I said earlier, that's not the same situation we have with Jon, who in some time will have been an adult longer than he has been a kid.

All in all, I think that all depends on what they are planning to do with Infinite Frontier. The impression I got is that they are going towards some kind of Anti-Crisis, with more rigidly divided parallel worlds. And I guess that they could use it to reduce the number of characters on the main earth, which is quite high at the moment. They could put Wallace Kent on Earth-2 and leave Wally on Earth-1. I find it interesting that we don't have any JSA title on sight, and I am beginning to wonder whether they are planning to restore the old Earth-1/Earth-2 division - I mean the pre-Crisis version. Should that be the case, I can easily see them placing Jon Kent on E-2 as a son to the original Kal-L (maybe even as the kid version) and a member of Infinity Inc. Or they could restore the classic Super-Sons earth.

P.S. About the "big deal"... I wouldn't overestimate this type of moves, quite frankly. If the New52 has proven anything, it is that they could easily discard entire fictional years of the characters in a heartbeat and replacing them with something different. And Kon-El's quite long career (way, way longer than Jon's, with better sales) and his current irrelevance shows that anything can happen even to apparently popular characters with no huge consequences.

[Myskin]

Nah, it was still a result of the original planned "flawed" pitch, going from Jurgens interviews, after DiDio approved Jon surviving Convergence, he asked to age the baby and Jurgens came up with Superdad and family hiding for years in the new universe and Jon being 9 in present day.
The decisions were made while they were working on Convergence before the event was over and DC-You even started. Jurgens was already working on the L&C book that was announced right after the awful event ended.

To add to that, at that time, Tom King was preparing a Kon-El series with Rocafort, and the arc on Teen Titans that was supposed to lead to it was altered to get rid of Kon (and make him looking bad while at it) to not pose a treat to Jon's popularity when Jurgens' book would start. While the Superman team barely started writing the first arc of Truth (the storyline was supposed to lead to a relaunch too) and they had to change it to accommodate Jurgens' direction (this was also said by Tomasi in an old interview we discussed on this forum, stating that Final Days was planned when they were in the middle of writing the first Truth arc). Originally, the whole storyline was different according to Kuder: https://twitter.com/AaronKuder/statu...1585470386177/

Again, a deeply flawed pitch that got approved without thinking much long term.

Interesting as usual, thanks.

[Superlad93]

please tell us your theory

Well, it's based off a few things that have come to light regarding 5G, the rumors regarding Jon, and the Wildstorm character use in the DCU.

So, for anyone who doesn't know, Jon and Damian were supposed to have a Professor X and Magneto like dynamic in 5G. Damian was to be the big bad of the DCU taking more after his mother's family and using the new version of Leviathan shape his plans for the world, and Jon was suppose to stand in his way. It was going to play on the tragedy of these childhood best friends having an ideological divide that brings them to blows.

I think Jon's new friend and potential love interest, Jay Nakamura, is going to take Damian's place as the Magneto to Jon's Professor X.

After reading issue #2, I think Jay is either Kaizen Gamorra's son or grandson. Kaizen Gamorra was the leader of the island nation of Gamorra back in the Wildstorm days. And back in those days the nation was taken from him several times by the west. Given the fact that the people of Gamorra retain their Asian appearance, it seems likely that Bendix took power from Kaizen in this version of Gamorra.

I think the idea is that Jay is either a Gamorran immigrant or he's first generation born in America. Nakamura is either a fake name or his father's name (his mother being the one with the Gamorra last name). Jay is obviously Asian, but that's not why I think he's Gamorran. It's the way he says "I know what he's capable of" when talking about Bendix and what he'll do to Jon for what he's done. I think Jay's family is in hiding because they'd pose a threat to Bendix's rule since they're the rightful one who should be in power, so Bendix has hunted them.

But I also think Kaizen's villainy isn't being retconed away. I think he was still a tyrant, and Jay has conflicting feeling about that. I think that along with hiding from Bendix is why Jay says he gets why Jon was trying to hide. But it's the words Jay decides to use that stick out. He says "be something lesser, sometimes. Someone smaller." I think he's projecting onto Jon right here because Jon even tries to correct/elaborate, but Jay cuts him off. Jay feels like he's found someone with just as complex a relationship with their family legacy as him.

I think Jon and Jay will date, and they'll be each other's first loves (Jon and Saturn Girl never said I love you), but eventually we'll see Jay go from what we assume to be Jon's Lois to his Lana (or Lori I guess) and then finally to his Lex. As others have pointed out Jay's mask and general color scheme really does line up with the typical villain color scheme and look. And it also looks somewhat Leviathan-y. I also think Jay already has powers, and we'll see them in issue #5 when he saves Jon from Bendix. Not only is Bendix himself known for augmenting humans (he's the one who made Midnighter and Apollo the way they are), but Gamorra and the whole nation is known for augmented humans. In Ellis' Authority Gamorra attacks other countries using a flying army of superhuman clones that are called the Children Of Gamorra. They had superhuman strength, flight, and durability on a lower level than Apollo. Not saying Jay will have these specific powers, but I am saying that he'll have powers.

The thing is, HOW DID HE ACTUALLY GET UP THERE AND SNEAK UP BEHIND JON? Jay never answers Jon. He just says Jon seemed distracted, but that's not good enough especially when we're talking about someone with Jon's powers. I think it's his powers.

After the boys breakup/have a falling out Jay will stop running from his family heritage and assume control of Gamorra, and Jon will continue the good work they started with The Truth network. This is where Jenny Q comes in. By that I mean the Century Baby of the 21st Century, Jenny Quantum. I think DC still ultimately intends to have her and Jon be a couple for however long because similar to Grifter in Batman and The Authority, part of the point is still to introduce Wildstorm characters. So they're likely to keep Jon bi or pan.

Jenny will likely be part of all this from near the start, and she'll likely fall closer to Jon's ideological thinking rather than Jay's, and that will likely be part of the reason Jay goes bad. He may even see Jon and Jenny growing closer even while Jon is with him, and assume that he'll betray him soon, but clearly on Jon's part he's just making a new friend. So a broken heart and an ideological divide is what gets us our Professor X and Magneto.

_____________

I figure this is likely because while Taylor is popular and likely has some pull growing at DC, he probably couldn't change ALL the plans they had for Jon. This is clear given the fact that so many Wildstorm ideas are still in his run just like PKJ has to use The Authority even though he didn't pitch it. So, I'm guessing Taylor worked within the bounds he was given and an idea he had was to make Jon bi or pan in order to really hit that "21st Century" idea, but he'd still have to eventually land on Jenny since she's the equivalent of PKJ still having to make a pitch where Superman leads The Authority. But this would establish that Jon Kent can in fact date boys after however long DC wants to keep him with Jenny.

_______________

And Taylor subscribing to the "Batman NEEDS Joker" club, I could see him creating a "Lex" that literalized often theorized hero/arch villain implicit sexual tension. We've all see the actual comics and movies where there's this "when are you two just gonna get it over with an F%&K" vibe between Batman and Joker or even Lex and Superman. With this becoming text rather than subtext there's a more clear layer to why neither the hero or villain can strike the final blow or won't stop trying to get the other to see their way.

In fact, given the fact that X-Men started out in large part as a queer allegory, and the wording going around DC was Prof X and Magneto for Jon and Damian, I'm wondering if Taylor didn't just go literal with it with Jon and Jay. The subtext of Prof X and Magneto has always been somewhat queer in nature, so I wouldn't be shocked.

[Quinlan58]

Well, it's based off a few things that have come to light regarding 5G, the rumors regarding Jon, and the Wildstorm character use in the DCU.

So, for anyone who doesn't know, Jon and Damian were supposed to have a Professor X and Magneto like dynamic in 5G. Damian was to be the big bad of the DCU taking more after his mother's family and using the new version of Leviathan shape his plans for the world, and Jon was suppose to stand in his way. It was going to play on the tragedy of these childhood best friends having an ideological divide that brings them to blows.

I think Jon's new friend and potential love interest, Jay Nakamura, is going to take Damian's place as the Magneto to Jon's Professor X.

After reading issue #2, I think Jay is either Kaizen Gamorra's son or grandson. Kaizen Gamorra was the leader of the island nation of Gamorra back in the Wildstorm days. And back in those days the nation was taken from him several times by the west. Given the fact that the people of Gamorra retain their Asian appearance, it seems likely that Bendix took power from Kaizen in this version of Gamorra.

I think the idea is that Jay is either a Gamorran immigrant or he's first generation born in America. Nakamura is either a fake name or his father's name (his mother being the one with the Gamorra last name). Jay is obviously Asian, but that's not why I think he's Gamorran. It's the way he says "I know what he's capable of" when talking about Bendix and what he'll do to Jon for what he's done. I think Jay's family is in hiding because they'd pose a threat to Bendix's rule since they're the rightful one who should be in power, so Bendix has hunted them.

But I also think Kaizen's villainy isn't being retconed away. I think he was still a tyrant, and Jay has conflicting feeling about that. I think that along with hiding from Bendix is why Jay says he gets why Jon was trying to hide. But it's the words Jay decides to use that stick out. He says "be something lesser, sometimes. Someone smaller." I think he's projecting onto Jon right here because Jon even tries to correct/elaborate, but Jay cuts him off. Jay feels like he's found someone with just as complex a relationship with their family legacy as him.

I think Jon and Jay will date, and they'll be each other's first loves (Jon and Saturn Girl never said I love you), but eventually we'll see Jay go from what we assume to be Jon's Lois to his Lana (or Lori I guess) and then finally to his Lex. As others have pointed out Jay's mask and general color scheme really does line up with the typical villain color scheme and look. And it also looks somewhat Leviathan-y. I also think Jay already has powers, and we'll see them in issue #5 when he saves Jon from Bendix. Not only is Bendix himself known for augmenting humans (he's the one who made Midnighter and Apollo the way they are), but Gamorra and the whole nation is known for augmented humans. In Ellis' Authority Gamorra attacks other countries using a flying army of superhuman clones that are called the Children Of Gamorra. They had superhuman strength, flight, and durability on a lower level than Apollo. Not saying Jay will have these specific powers, but I am saying that he'll have powers.

The thing is, HOW DID HE ACTUALLY GET UP THERE AND SNEAK UP BEHIND JON? Jay never answers Jon. He just says Jon seemed distracted, but that's not good enough especially when we're talking about someone with Jon's powers. I think it's his powers.

After the boys breakup/have a falling out Jay will stop running from his family heritage and assume control of Gamorra, and Jon will continue the good work they started with The Truth network. This is where Jenny Q comes in. By that I mean the Century Baby of the 21st Century, Jenny Quantum. I think DC still ultimately intends to have her and Jon be a couple for however long because similar to Grifter in Batman and The Authority, part of the point is still to introduce Wildstorm characters. So they're likely to keep Jon bi or pan.

Jenny will likely be part of all this from near the start, and she'll likely fall closer to Jon's ideological thinking rather than Jay's, and that will likely be part of the reason Jay goes bad. He may even see Jon and Jenny growing closer even while Jon is with him, and assume that he'll betray him soon, but clearly on Jon's part he's just making a new friend. So a broken heart and an ideological divide is what gets us our Professor X and Magneto.

_____________

I figure this is likely because while Taylor is popular and likely has some pull growing at DC, he probably couldn't change ALL the plans they had for Jon. This is clear given the fact that so many Wildstorm ideas are still in his run just like PKJ has to use The Authority even though he didn't pitch it. So, I'm guessing Taylor worked within the bounds he was given and an idea he had was to make Jon bi or pan in order to really hit that "21st Century" idea, but he'd still have to eventually land on Jenny since she's the equivalent of PKJ still having to make a pitch where Superman leads The Authority. But this would establish that Jon Kent can in fact date boys after however long DC wants to keep him with Jenny.

_______________

And Taylor subscribing to the "Batman NEEDS Joker" club, I could see him creating a "Lex" that literalized often theorized hero/arch villain implicit sexual tension. We've all see the actual comics and movies where there's this "when are you two just gonna get it over with an F%&K" vibe between Batman and Joker or even Lex and Superman. With this becoming text rather than subtext there's a more clear layer to why neither the hero or villain can strike the final blow or won't stop trying to get the other to see their way.

In fact, given the fact that X-Men started out in large part as a queer allegory, and the wording going around DC was Prof X and Magneto for Jon and Damian, I'm wondering if Taylor didn't just go literal with it with Jon and Jay. The subtext of Prof X and Magneto has always been somewhat queer in nature, so I wouldn't be shocked.

Yeah, I've seen the connection between Jay and Kaizen be suggested elsewhere too. It makes perfect sense to me, the dude is introduced specifically talking about Gamorra, so a deeper connection is likely. Your speculation that "someone lesser, smaller" means not just that Jay sees regular people as lesser but that he may be projecting and that's what he himself is doing is interesting.

I don't think they'll do a love triangle between Jon, Jay and Jenny (granted, that alliteration that just hit me makes it more likely). That'd be framing the same-gender love interest for Jon as a villanous character partially driven by jealousy and whose presence always brings a layer of hurt to the story, whereas the opposite-gender love interest is "The One" (or at least framed as such for a short time). I would hope DC would avoid such a thing.

As for my own theory, given the mainline is still tying to the Guardian story from Future State going by solicits, I suspect we may see Honest Mary from that back-up be tied to The Truth in some way.

[Betinayen]

Well, it's based off a few things that have come to light regarding 5G, the rumors regarding Jon, and the Wildstorm character use in the DCU.

So, for anyone who doesn't know, Jon and Damian were supposed to have a Professor X and Magneto like dynamic in 5G. Damian was to be the big bad of the DCU taking more after his mother's family and using the new version of Leviathan shape his plans for the world, and Jon was suppose to stand in his way. It was going to play on the tragedy of these childhood best friends having an ideological divide that brings them to blows.

I think Jon's new friend and potential love interest, Jay Nakamura, is going to take Damian's place as the Magneto to Jon's Professor X.

After reading issue #2, I think Jay is either Kaizen Gamorra's son or grandson. Kaizen Gamorra was the leader of the island nation of Gamorra back in the Wildstorm days. And back in those days the nation was taken from him several times by the west. Given the fact that the people of Gamorra retain their Asian appearance, it seems likely that Bendix took power from Kaizen in this version of Gamorra.

I think the idea is that Jay is either a Gamorran immigrant or he's first generation born in America. Nakamura is either a fake name or his father's name (his mother being the one with the Gamorra last name). Jay is obviously Asian, but that's not why I think he's Gamorran. It's the way he says "I know what he's capable of" when talking about Bendix and what he'll do to Jon for what he's done. I think Jay's family is in hiding because they'd pose a threat to Bendix's rule since they're the rightful one who should be in power, so Bendix has hunted them.

But I also think Kaizen's villainy isn't being retconed away. I think he was still a tyrant, and Jay has conflicting feeling about that. I think that along with hiding from Bendix is why Jay says he gets why Jon was trying to hide. But it's the words Jay decides to use that stick out. He says "be something lesser, sometimes. Someone smaller." I think he's projecting onto Jon right here because Jon even tries to correct/elaborate, but Jay cuts him off. Jay feels like he's found someone with just as complex a relationship with their family legacy as him.

I think Jon and Jay will date, and they'll be each other's first loves (Jon and Saturn Girl never said I love you), but eventually we'll see Jay go from what we assume to be Jon's Lois to his Lana (or Lori I guess) and then finally to his Lex. As others have pointed out Jay's mask and general color scheme really does line up with the typical villain color scheme and look. And it also looks somewhat Leviathan-y. I also think Jay already has powers, and we'll see them in issue #5 when he saves Jon from Bendix. Not only is Bendix himself known for augmenting humans (he's the one who made Midnighter and Apollo the way they are), but Gamorra and the whole nation is known for augmented humans. In Ellis' Authority Gamorra attacks other countries using a flying army of superhuman clones that are called the Children Of Gamorra. They had superhuman strength, flight, and durability on a lower level than Apollo. Not saying Jay will have these specific powers, but I am saying that he'll have powers.

The thing is, HOW DID HE ACTUALLY GET UP THERE AND SNEAK UP BEHIND JON? Jay never answers Jon. He just says Jon seemed distracted, but that's not good enough especially when we're talking about someone with Jon's powers. I think it's his powers.

After the boys breakup/have a falling out Jay will stop running from his family heritage and assume control of Gamorra, and Jon will continue the good work they started with The Truth network. This is where Jenny Q comes in. By that I mean the Century Baby of the 21st Century, Jenny Quantum. I think DC still ultimately intends to have her and Jon be a couple for however long because similar to Grifter in Batman and The Authority, part of the point is still to introduce Wildstorm characters. So they're likely to keep Jon bi or pan.

Jenny will likely be part of all this from near the start, and she'll likely fall closer to Jon's ideological thinking rather than Jay's, and that will likely be part of the reason Jay goes bad. He may even see Jon and Jenny growing closer even while Jon is with him, and assume that he'll betray him soon, but clearly on Jon's part he's just making a new friend. So a broken heart and an ideological divide is what gets us our Professor X and Magneto.

_____________

I figure this is likely because while Taylor is popular and likely has some pull growing at DC, he probably couldn't change ALL the plans they had for Jon. This is clear given the fact that so many Wildstorm ideas are still in his run just like PKJ has to use The Authority even though he didn't pitch it. So, I'm guessing Taylor worked within the bounds he was given and an idea he had was to make Jon bi or pan in order to really hit that "21st Century" idea, but he'd still have to eventually land on Jenny since she's the equivalent of PKJ still having to make a pitch where Superman leads The Authority. But this would establish that Jon Kent can in fact date boys after however long DC wants to keep him with Jenny.

_______________

And Taylor subscribing to the "Batman NEEDS Joker" club, I could see him creating a "Lex" that literalized often theorized hero/arch villain implicit sexual tension. We've all see the actual comics and movies where there's this "when are you two just gonna get it over with an F%&K" vibe between Batman and Joker or even Lex and Superman. With this becoming text rather than subtext there's a more clear layer to why neither the hero or villain can strike the final blow or won't stop trying to get the other to see their way.

In fact, given the fact that X-Men started out in large part as a queer allegory, and the wording going around DC was Prof X and Magneto for Jon and Damian, I'm wondering if Taylor didn't just go literal with it with Jon and Jay. The subtext of Prof X and Magneto has always been somewhat queer in nature, so I wouldn't be shocked.

wow!! I loved your theory now I want something like this ,, I will not accept anything far from it .. wow very good .. And I loved how you worked very good the Jon's bisexuality here ,, I loved

[Vathlonian]

Well, it's based off a few things that have come to light regarding 5G, the rumors regarding Jon, and the Wildstorm character use in the DCU.

So, for anyone who doesn't know, Jon and Damian were supposed to have a Professor X and Magneto like dynamic in 5G. Damian was to be the big bad of the DCU taking more after his mother's family and using the new version of Leviathan shape his plans for the world, and Jon was suppose to stand in his way. It was going to play on the tragedy of these childhood best friends having an ideological divide that brings them to blows.

I think Jon's new friend and potential love interest, Jay Nakamura, is going to take Damian's place as the Magneto to Jon's Professor X.

After reading issue #2, I think Jay is either Kaizen Gamorra's son or grandson. Kaizen Gamorra was the leader of the island nation of Gamorra back in the Wildstorm days. And back in those days the nation was taken from him several times by the west. Given the fact that the people of Gamorra retain their Asian appearance, it seems likely that Bendix took power from Kaizen in this version of Gamorra.

I think the idea is that Jay is either a Gamorran immigrant or he's first generation born in America. Nakamura is either a fake name or his father's name (his mother being the one with the Gamorra last name). Jay is obviously Asian, but that's not why I think he's Gamorran. It's the way he says "I know what he's capable of" when talking about Bendix and what he'll do to Jon for what he's done. I think Jay's family is in hiding because they'd pose a threat to Bendix's rule since they're the rightful one who should be in power, so Bendix has hunted them.

But I also think Kaizen's villainy isn't being retconed away. I think he was still a tyrant, and Jay has conflicting feeling about that. I think that along with hiding from Bendix is why Jay says he gets why Jon was trying to hide. But it's the words Jay decides to use that stick out. He says "be something lesser, sometimes. Someone smaller." I think he's projecting onto Jon right here because Jon even tries to correct/elaborate, but Jay cuts him off. Jay feels like he's found someone with just as complex a relationship with their family legacy as him.

I think Jon and Jay will date, and they'll be each other's first loves (Jon and Saturn Girl never said I love you), but eventually we'll see Jay go from what we assume to be Jon's Lois to his Lana (or Lori I guess) and then finally to his Lex. As others have pointed out Jay's mask and general color scheme really does line up with the typical villain color scheme and look. And it also looks somewhat Leviathan-y. I also think Jay already has powers, and we'll see them in issue #5 when he saves Jon from Bendix. Not only is Bendix himself known for augmenting humans (he's the one who made Midnighter and Apollo the way they are), but Gamorra and the whole nation is known for augmented humans. In Ellis' Authority Gamorra attacks other countries using a flying army of superhuman clones that are called the Children Of Gamorra. They had superhuman strength, flight, and durability on a lower level than Apollo. Not saying Jay will have these specific powers, but I am saying that he'll have powers.

The thing is, HOW DID HE ACTUALLY GET UP THERE AND SNEAK UP BEHIND JON? Jay never answers Jon. He just says Jon seemed distracted, but that's not good enough especially when we're talking about someone with Jon's powers. I think it's his powers.

After the boys breakup/have a falling out Jay will stop running from his family heritage and assume control of Gamorra, and Jon will continue the good work they started with The Truth network. This is where Jenny Q comes in. By that I mean the Century Baby of the 21st Century, Jenny Quantum. I think DC still ultimately intends to have her and Jon be a couple for however long because similar to Grifter in Batman and The Authority, part of the point is still to introduce Wildstorm characters. So they're likely to keep Jon bi or pan.

Jenny will likely be part of all this from near the start, and she'll likely fall closer to Jon's ideological thinking rather than Jay's, and that will likely be part of the reason Jay goes bad. He may even see Jon and Jenny growing closer even while Jon is with him, and assume that he'll betray him soon, but clearly on Jon's part he's just making a new friend. So a broken heart and an ideological divide is what gets us our Professor X and Magneto.

_____________

I figure this is likely because while Taylor is popular and likely has some pull growing at DC, he probably couldn't change ALL the plans they had for Jon. This is clear given the fact that so many Wildstorm ideas are still in his run just like PKJ has to use The Authority even though he didn't pitch it. So, I'm guessing Taylor worked within the bounds he was given and an idea he had was to make Jon bi or pan in order to really hit that "21st Century" idea, but he'd still have to eventually land on Jenny since she's the equivalent of PKJ still having to make a pitch where Superman leads The Authority. But this would establish that Jon Kent can in fact date boys after however long DC wants to keep him with Jenny.

_______________

And Taylor subscribing to the "Batman NEEDS Joker" club, I could see him creating a "Lex" that literalized often theorized hero/arch villain implicit sexual tension. We've all see the actual comics and movies where there's this "when are you two just gonna get it over with an F%&K" vibe between Batman and Joker or even Lex and Superman. With this becoming text rather than subtext there's a more clear layer to why neither the hero or villain can strike the final blow or won't stop trying to get the other to see their way.

In fact, given the fact that X-Men started out in large part as a queer allegory, and the wording going around DC was Prof X and Magneto for Jon and Damian, I'm wondering if Taylor didn't just go literal with it with Jon and Jay. The subtext of Prof X and Magneto has always been somewhat queer in nature, so I wouldn't be shocked.

The biggest flaw in your theory is that you are operating under the assumption that Jenny is going to be a thing in Jon’s life

Ocam razor…Jenny and 5G Damian is being composited into one love interest/arch-nemesis for Jon


Jon is torn between his duty as a superhero and his relationship with Jay

Leading to infinite storytelling potential

They aren’t going to have a love triangle between Jenny, Jon, and Jay

They are going to have a love triangle between Jon, his duty as a superhero, and Jay


And big stretch here…I am suspecting that Jay is a shapeshifter with reptilian characteristics

With no set gender

[Vathlonian]

It depends on what you mean by "if he flops". I guess that you are referring to the regular title, which IMHO will have relatively good sales for at least one year (and no matter what it sells, I have a feeling that it always be higher than Action Comics).
Well... That's a huge issue. It's another problem with superheroes' children. In addition to all the other potential issues they create, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to get rid of them. Superman titles can stay for a very long time without ever mentioning Supergirl or Kon-El, but it is quite hard to stay without the son of the main character.
One thing's for sure: they are not going to kill Superman's son. That's basically impossible. Sometimes I wonder how the hell Grant Morrison could think that he could seriously kill Damian once and for all after several years of building him as a character. A dead son, for God's sake! It would have added some unnecessary angst for an already grim character for whom the only real, iconic death is his parents'.

Here's the deal though. If they really, really wanted to get rid of him, they could kill him AFTER retconning him as something different from Superman's son. For example, if they said that Jon is actually a fake son created by Brainiac together with fake memories or some **** like that they could have him die - maybe in some glorious act of self-sacrifice. There's an interesting detail - as far as I remember, we never saw any single moment of Jon growing up except for his birth. Which means that they could use some fake memories/timespace shenanigans to retcon him. So... If they wanted they could find a way to kill him, but only after making him something different from Superman's son. It's convoluted, but they could do it.

Of course, it's not impossible for them to de-age him, even if I have thoroughly explained why it is unlikely IMHO. By the way, I am not familiar with Franklin Richards' growth, but as far as I know his "iconic" version is the superpowered kid one. Also: I guess that Franklin Richards had been a kid way for several years before they planned to make him an adult. Which means that the kid version was the "regular" one. As I said earlier, that's not the same situation we have with Jon, who in some time will have been an adult longer than he has been a kid.

All in all, I think that all depends on what they are planning to do with Infinite Frontier. The impression I got is that they are going towards some kind of Anti-Crisis, with more rigidly divided parallel worlds. And I guess that they could use it to reduce the number of characters on the main earth, which is quite high at the moment. They could put Wallace Kent on Earth-2 and leave Wally on Earth-1. I find it interesting that we don't have any JSA title on sight, and I am beginning to wonder whether they are planning to restore the old Earth-1/Earth-2 division - I mean the pre-Crisis version. Should that be the case, I can easily see them placing Jon Kent on E-2 as a son to the original Kal-L (maybe even as the kid version) and a member of Infinity Inc. Or they could restore the classic Super-Sons earth.

P.S. About the "big deal"... I wouldn't overestimate this type of moves, quite frankly. If the New52 has proven anything, it is that they could easily discard entire fictional years of the characters in a heartbeat and replacing them with something different. And Kon-El's quite long career (way, way longer than Jon's, with better sales) and his current irrelevance shows that anything can happen even to apparently popular characters with no huge consequences.

Don’t let the door hit you on your way out


Jon is going to stay here a long time

[Blue22]

My you are just...so incredibly pleasant.

Everyone's been having a civil discussion all day and you just swoop in with the snark and baiting. You an alt account for Kryptonian or something?

[Vordan]

Well, it's based off a few things that have come to light regarding 5G, the rumors regarding Jon, and the Wildstorm character use in the DCU.

So, for anyone who doesn't know, Jon and Damian were supposed to have a Professor X and Magneto like dynamic in 5G. Damian was to be the big bad of the DCU taking more after his mother's family and using the new version of Leviathan shape his plans for the world, and Jon was suppose to stand in his way. It was going to play on the tragedy of these childhood best friends having an ideological divide that brings them to blows.

I think Jon's new friend and potential love interest, Jay Nakamura, is going to take Damian's place as the Magneto to Jon's Professor X.

After reading issue #2, I think Jay is either Kaizen Gamorra's son or grandson. Kaizen Gamorra was the leader of the island nation of Gamorra back in the Wildstorm days. And back in those days the nation was taken from him several times by the west. Given the fact that the people of Gamorra retain their Asian appearance, it seems likely that Bendix took power from Kaizen in this version of Gamorra.

I think the idea is that Jay is either a Gamorran immigrant or he's first generation born in America. Nakamura is either a fake name or his father's name (his mother being the one with the Gamorra last name). Jay is obviously Asian, but that's not why I think he's Gamorran. It's the way he says "I know what he's capable of" when talking about Bendix and what he'll do to Jon for what he's done. I think Jay's family is in hiding because they'd pose a threat to Bendix's rule since they're the rightful one who should be in power, so Bendix has hunted them.

But I also think Kaizen's villainy isn't being retconed away. I think he was still a tyrant, and Jay has conflicting feeling about that. I think that along with hiding from Bendix is why Jay says he gets why Jon was trying to hide. But it's the words Jay decides to use that stick out. He says "be something lesser, sometimes. Someone smaller." I think he's projecting onto Jon right here because Jon even tries to correct/elaborate, but Jay cuts him off. Jay feels like he's found someone with just as complex a relationship with their family legacy as him.

I think Jon and Jay will date, and they'll be each other's first loves (Jon and Saturn Girl never said I love you), but eventually we'll see Jay go from what we assume to be Jon's Lois to his Lana (or Lori I guess) and then finally to his Lex. As others have pointed out Jay's mask and general color scheme really does line up with the typical villain color scheme and look. And it also looks somewhat Leviathan-y. I also think Jay already has powers, and we'll see them in issue #5 when he saves Jon from Bendix. Not only is Bendix himself known for augmenting humans (he's the one who made Midnighter and Apollo the way they are), but Gamorra and the whole nation is known for augmented humans. In Ellis' Authority Gamorra attacks other countries using a flying army of superhuman clones that are called the Children Of Gamorra. They had superhuman strength, flight, and durability on a lower level than Apollo. Not saying Jay will have these specific powers, but I am saying that he'll have powers.

The thing is, HOW DID HE ACTUALLY GET UP THERE AND SNEAK UP BEHIND JON? Jay never answers Jon. He just says Jon seemed distracted, but that's not good enough especially when we're talking about someone with Jon's powers. I think it's his powers.

After the boys breakup/have a falling out Jay will stop running from his family heritage and assume control of Gamorra, and Jon will continue the good work they started with The Truth network. This is where Jenny Q comes in. By that I mean the Century Baby of the 21st Century, Jenny Quantum. I think DC still ultimately intends to have her and Jon be a couple for however long because similar to Grifter in Batman and The Authority, part of the point is still to introduce Wildstorm characters. So they're likely to keep Jon bi or pan.

Jenny will likely be part of all this from near the start, and she'll likely fall closer to Jon's ideological thinking rather than Jay's, and that will likely be part of the reason Jay goes bad. He may even see Jon and Jenny growing closer even while Jon is with him, and assume that he'll betray him soon, but clearly on Jon's part he's just making a new friend. So a broken heart and an ideological divide is what gets us our Professor X and Magneto.

_____________

I figure this is likely because while Taylor is popular and likely has some pull growing at DC, he probably couldn't change ALL the plans they had for Jon. This is clear given the fact that so many Wildstorm ideas are still in his run just like PKJ has to use The Authority even though he didn't pitch it. So, I'm guessing Taylor worked within the bounds he was given and an idea he had was to make Jon bi or pan in order to really hit that "21st Century" idea, but he'd still have to eventually land on Jenny since she's the equivalent of PKJ still having to make a pitch where Superman leads The Authority. But this would establish that Jon Kent can in fact date boys after however long DC wants to keep him with Jenny.

_______________

And Taylor subscribing to the "Batman NEEDS Joker" club, I could see him creating a "Lex" that literalized often theorized hero/arch villain implicit sexual tension. We've all see the actual comics and movies where there's this "when are you two just gonna get it over with an F%&K" vibe between Batman and Joker or even Lex and Superman. With this becoming text rather than subtext there's a more clear layer to why neither the hero or villain can strike the final blow or won't stop trying to get the other to see their way.

In fact, given the fact that X-Men started out in large part as a queer allegory, and the wording going around DC was Prof X and Magneto for Jon and Damian, I'm wondering if Taylor didn't just go literal with it with Jon and Jay. The subtext of Prof X and Magneto has always been somewhat queer in nature, so I wouldn't be shocked.

I like your theory a lot and I do hope Jon ends up dating Jenny Quantum still. That Apollo and Midnighter could potentially end up as Jon’s in-laws is hilarious and would make them official members of the Superfamily. As for Jay I still am skeptical they’re going to date, but him taking over Damian’s old role makes a lot of sense given Taylor initially pitched him as a friend “like Damian”.

The biggest flaw in your theory is that you are operating under the assumption that Jenny is going to be a thing in Jon’s life

Ocam razor…Jenny and 5G Damian is being composited into one love interest/arch-nemesis for Jon


Jon is torn between his duty as a superhero and his relationship with Jay

Leading to infinite storytelling potential

They aren’t going to have a love triangle between Jenny, Jon, and Jay

They are going to have a love triangle between Jon, his duty as a superhero, and Jay


And big stretch here…I am suspecting that Jay is a shapeshifter with reptilian characteristics

With no set gender

This meanwhile is bizarre I don’t even know where to begin. You’re an interesting one kryptonian.

My you are just...so incredibly pleasant.

Everyone's been having a civil discussion all day and you just swoop in with the snark and baiting. You an alt account for Kryptonian or something?

It’s him lmao, glad I’m not the only one who can spot the obvious. I still am curious to know what made him pivot from your side to “Aged up Jon is good” that was so bizarre.

[Blue22]

It’s him lmao, glad I’m not the only one who can spot the obvious. I still am curious to know what made him pivot from your side to “Aged up Jon is good” that was so bizarre.

Not just "aged up Jon is good", but straight up hostility to anyone who doesn't agree. Just like how he was unnecessarily hostile to everyone else when he was on the other side XD

I mean I guess you can ask what happened again but he goes silent whenever it's brought up.

[Journey]

Some very weird behavior going on in this particular forum.

[Vathlonian]

Some very weird behavior going on in this particular forum.

It’s the symptoms of salt overdose