Superman: son of Kal-El

[oneveryfineday]

snip

This is so well-thought out I feel like I’ve been spoiled the next ten issues. Great job.

I was playing with the idea that Jay could become ruler of Gamorra partly because he seems to have a personal vendetta against Bendix (plus the optics of a white man ruling over a nation of Asian people) but I didn’t know Wildstorm history, so it’s cool to see that the idea has possible foundations via Kaizen Gamorra. Not to mention Jay’s chameleon motif plays into the idea that he has a hidden background.

I don't think they'll do a love triangle between Jon, Jay and Jenny (granted, that alliteration that just hit me makes it more likely). That'd be framing the same-gender love interest for Jon as a villanous character partially driven by jealousy and whose presence always brings a layer of hurt to the story, whereas the opposite-gender love interest is "The One" (or at least framed as such for a short time). I would hope DC would avoid such a thing.

Yeah, as juicy as I find the villainship dynamic the pause I have is that DC is putting forward very wholesome portrayals of their queer couples right now. To have the first major queer relationship of the Superman franchise (with Superman no less, which is guaranteed to generate headlines and amass a lot of LGBT fans) planned for a bad end from the start because one of them is a villain seems contrary to what they’re doing. It just looks bad.

And speaking truthfully a queer romantic relationship cannot be essential to Jon’s lore for adaptation reasons. So a part of me thinks that Jay is Jon’s Lori (just one of Superman’s many love interests in the comics and is easily ignorable) rather than his Lex (THE main villain).

OR maybe Jay really is his Lex and Jon hooks up with fire dude from issue #1 instead? He could be one of Bendix’s escaped experiments. BC did say it was possible that Jay was a red-herring. Whether that was their own speculation or something from DC is a little unclear.

It ticks all the boxes. Jay can still be Jon’s Lex, Jon/fire dude would be a positive queer couple DC can put in a Pride book, they can end on good terms, and they wouldn’t intrude on Superman lore. If DC wants they can do the Jon/Jay villainship later after some positive representation is established first, and that doesn’t intrude on the foundations of their initial friendship either.

Phew. This is way more complicated than “who is the first girl in proximity to Jon” lol

[garazza]

It’s the symptoms of salt overdose

I've been told it was the copium, but that's on reddit.

[Vordan]

If Jon and Jay date, Jay will be his Maxima

Kathy = Lana
Irma = Lori
Jay = Maxima

He won’t get a Lois until he ends up marrying someone, and I firmly believe Jon should never be married to anyone ever.

[oneveryfineday]

If Jon and Jay date, Jay will be his Maxima

Kathy = Lana
Irma = Lori
Jay = Maxima

He won’t get a Lois until he ends up marrying someone, and I firmly believe Jon should never be married to anyone ever.

Haha you’re right that Jay would be his Maxima.

And yeah, DC definitely shouldn’t commit to an endgame for Jon. I think exploring different love interests are pretty fun, and maybe 80 years from now DC can commit to a particular pairing that’s so popular it’s practically a given, but I’ll be dead by then lol

[manwhohaseverything]

So what happened here?jon turn out to be darth vader or something?

[Vordan]

So what happened here?jon turn out to be darth vader or something?

Lmao nope. Rumors say Jon is going to be bi/pan and that’s what’s got everyone talking. It’s going to be funny if this is another “Shazadam”. The second issue itself doesn’t have any hint of romance between Jon and Jay the new guy some think will be Jon’s first bf. But we’ll see.

I saw more discussion on Twitter on Taylor’s rather heavy handed and unsubtle commentary on school shootings with the “thoughts and prayers” bullets, a lot of people were confused about what the hell Taylor was trying to say, and I myself must admit I’m baffled. Taylor so far is at his best when Jon is doing standard “Superman” stuff, but his attempts at being relevant are clumsy to say the least.

[Blue22]

So what happened here?jon turn out to be darth vader or something?

Nah just the usual. Only this time the conversation lasted...quite a long time. It was actually pretty fun, all things considered.

[Superlad93]

I don't think they'll do a love triangle between Jon, Jay and Jenny (granted, that alliteration that just hit me makes it more likely). That'd be framing the same-gender love interest for Jon as a villanous character partially driven by jealousy and whose presence always brings a layer of hurt to the story, whereas the opposite-gender love interest is "The One" (or at least framed as such for a short time). I would hope DC would avoid such a thing.

This is something I've wrestled with, and while I agree it may have the potential for unfavorable optics, I also don't put it past DC, and that's why I felt like I needed to add it. I could see Taylor (who likely pitched a queer Jon to begin with) going for this idea with only the best of intentions.

But I don't think an actual triangle would be needed. I think Jenny's likely part of this, and we'll meet her in this arc or the next, and that'll leave things set up for her as Jon's rebound/comfort after the blow out with Jay.

The biggest flaw in your theory is that you are operating under the assumption that Jenny is going to be a thing in Jon’s life

Ocam razor…Jenny and 5G Damian is being composited into one love interest/arch-nemesis for Jon

I don't agree with that because now we're getting well into the territory of IPs. Jenny is an IP that Lee and DC want to push, and that's why she was to date Jon in the first place. Even though I was the one who came up with the gender bending theory for Jay as the new "Jenny", I've since gone back on it for a number of reasons. For one, like sated before, Jenny Sparks/Quantum is an IP and under a trade mark. Lee isn't trying to push new characters with Wildstorm ideas (he's good with that clearly, but it's not his priority), he's trying to push his WS characters.

Plus, 5G seems to have the habit of finding its way into this era regardless of who the writers are. Clearly PKJ didn't pitch Superman leading The Authority. We know that DC pitched that to Morrison, and then Morrison shaped it. If DC was willing to let PKJ or any of the other creators just do whatever then could've worked them in another way, but HE had to do the bending. He had to contrive a reason for Clark's powers to fade and for him to LEAD The Authority even on his big space quest.

So with that in mind, I have to imagine that Taylor is somewhat beholden to a general 5G outline on some plot points that he can hit as he sees fit, and one of those plot points is likely Jon needs to date Jenny.

But ultimately, I do agree that the real thing that will rip Jon and Jay apart will be an ideological divide rather than any love triangle.

[manwhohaseverything]

Lmao nope. Rumors say Jon is going to be bi/pan and that’s what’s got everyone talking. It’s going to be funny if this is another “Shazadam”. The second issue itself doesn’t have any hint of romance between Jon and Jay the new guy some think will be Jon’s first bf. But we’ll see.

I saw more discussion on Twitter on Taylor’s rather heavy handed and unsubtle commentary on school shootings with the “thoughts and prayers” bullets, a lot of people were confused about what the hell Taylor was trying to say, and I myself must admit I’m baffled. Taylor so far is at his best when Jon is doing standard “Superman” stuff, but his attempts at being relevant are clumsy to say the least.

Well,i didn't feel any of it.Actually,it was far better than jurgens try at "champion of the oppressed" in rebirth.It can easily be seen as doofus with guns on school grounds getting decked.Standard superhero stuff really.

Nah just the usual. Only this time the conversation lasted...quite a long time. It was actually pretty fun, all things considered.

I am glad you had fun.

[Superlad93]

Yeah, as juicy as I find the villainship dynamic the pause I have is that DC is putting forward very wholesome portrayals of their queer couples right now. To have the first major queer relationship of the Superman franchise (with Superman no less, which is guaranteed to generate headlines and amass a lot of LGBT fans) planned for a bad end from the start because one of them is a villain seems contrary to what they’re doing. It just looks bad.

And speaking truthfully a queer romantic relationship cannot be essential to Jon’s lore for adaptation reasons. So a part of me thinks that Jay is Jon’s Lori (just one of Superman’s many love interests in the comics and is easily ignorable) rather than his Lex (THE main villain).

Jay feels like the real deal in terms of being Jon's first boyfriend, and it's exactly because of that why I feel like he's also set up to be his Lex.

Just think like a writer for a moment: what is the only way to equal the sort of strong and cultivated bond/friendship that Jon and Damian had as the super sons? What's the only other non family bond that can have as much weight a pathos as childhood best friends? It's first love. On top of that it's going to be a first love that readers are really going to be watching because of the nature of it.

It's in the interest of time too. Taylor doesn't have the trades of Super Sons books to build this relationship. He's gotta get you to that level of emotional investment in however many issues of this book before he pulls the plug. It's manipulative, yes, but it's also very efficient.

And truthfully, it doesn't have to be a negative representation even if Jay isn't on Jon's side after. Magneto isn't really looked at as a villain. The most popular take on him is that he's the Malcom to Prof's Martian, and given the "lets get down to business" vibe I'm picking up from Jay, I'd say he's much the same. It's the old saying that a good villain is the hero of their story.

Looking at it from Jay's perspective Jon would be part of the problem because he's just another person with power who isn't willing to go far enough, and Jay's going to do what Jon won't. Remember Taylor said part of the idea would be about Jon learning where he draws his line? Well, maybe Jay's line is over there while Jon's is over here. But both ultimately want the same thing. Probably better to call Jay an anti-hero or rival rather than villain.

[Vathlonian]

Jay feels like the real deal in terms of being Jon's first boyfriend, and it's exactly because of that why I feel like he's also set up to be his Lex.

Just think like a writer for a moment: what is the only way to equal the sort of strong and cultivated bond/friendship that Jon and Damian had as the super sons? What's the only other non family bond that can have as much weight a pathos as childhood best friends? It's first love. On top of that it's going to be a first love that readers are really going to be watching because of the nature of it.

It's in the interest of time too. Taylor doesn't have the trades of Super Sons books to build this relationship. He's gotta get you to that level of emotional investment in however many issues of this book before he pulls the plug. It's manipulative, yes, but it's also very efficient.

And truthfully, it doesn't have to be a negative representation even if Jay isn't on Jon's side after. Magneto isn't really looked at as a villain. The most popular take on him is that he's the Malcom to Prof's Martian, and given the "lets get down to business" vibe I'm picking up from Jay, I'd say he's much the same. It's the old saying that a good villain is the hero of their story.

Looking at it from Jay's perspective Jon would be part of the problem because he's just another person with power who isn't willing to go far enough, and Jay's going to do what Jon won't. Remember Taylor said part of the idea would be about Jon learning where he draws his line? Well, maybe Jay's line is over there while Jon's is over here. But both ultimately want the same thing. Probably better to call Jay an anti-hero or rival rather than villain.

I still 100 percent believe that Jay is going to be a century child


A male version of jenny sparks

[Superlad93]

I still 100 percent believe that Jay is going to be a century child


A male version of jenny sparks

After reading the issue, I doubt that.

With Jay's heavily implied link to Gamorra and their well documented tendency to genetically enhance people (not to mention the clearly enhanced person from issue #1), Jay has a very clear place where his powers would come from rather than being a CB.

I think Jenny's gonna remain Jenny when she likely shows up in the book. No other Wildstorm character that has shown up in DC in this era has been changed in as drastic a way, so I don't see why Jenny would be the only one. Lee seems to want his characters back pretty much verbatim.

[Vordan]

They haven’t changed any of the other Wildstorm characters, don’t know why anyone would think they’d change Jenny that much. Still think Jon is going to be a Century Baby Superlad?

[Superlad93]

They haven’t changed any of the other Wildstorm characters, don’t know why anyone would think they’d change Jenny that much. Still think Jon is going to be a Century Baby Superlad?

They really haven't. The most any of the returning Wildstorm characters have gotten is a slight update to their suits. Nothing drastic at all.

As far as Jon being a Century Baby? I honestly don't know. There's some fairly compelling evidence that Jon was to be a CB for 5G (he was the only birth noted for the year 2000 in the timeline, and he was going to date Jenny), and 5G does seem to have a habit of still finding its way in to current DC. Similar to "Clark must lead The Authority and be depowered" this might be something Taylor has to contrive a way to get to?

And PKJ did state that Jon's great power being because he's a hybrid is just a theory, and a potentially wrong theory because we see The Red King in House of El is half Kryptonian but clearly not Clark's equal let alone his better.

Plus, boy am I sure Lee wouldn't mind putting his stamp on the new Superman in that way. So, chances are still quite good but I'm still not 100%. I imagine we'll get more into Jon's powers and thus him being a CB or not in the second arc.

[Vordan]

Lol yes I’m sure the idea of the new Superman coming custom built with some Wildstorm lore had Lee jumping for joy. It feels like it was definitely a lock for 5G, but I can see DC not using it now given Jon won’t have a set date for his birth anymore. Can we really take House of El as “counting” anymore given all that’s seemingly about to change though?