Superman: son of Kal-El

[Superlad93]

Lol yes IÂ’m sure the idea of the new Superman coming custom built with some Wildstorm lore had Lee jumping for joy. It feels like it was definitely a lock for 5G,

Lee: "Ah man, that's so crazy how the young new Superman is more powerful than the old one specifically because of a concept from my imprint. Whoa! And he's dating one of the most popular stars from said imprint? Wonder who made that happen?"

but I can see DC not using it now given Jon wonÂ’t have a set date for his birth anymore.

Normally I'd agree, but we had a situation extremely close to this with Clark. 5G Clark's powers were supposed to be going down simply because he was getting old (he'd have been in his 80s), thus it would've been all about set dates. But since then they've reconfigured it to reach the same idea (a Superman who's "feeling his age") but by other means (the radiation from the breach).

So they'd just have to create a similar contrivance. Something as simple as Jenny telling Jon "the planet didn't think it was gonna make it to the next century so it made itself a Superman" would do it.

Literally call it something like a "Late Term Century Baby" and it works just fine.

__________

As an aside, I noticed that Taylor made sure to mention the idea of Jon's 18th birthday. I think that's relevant for 2 reasons 1) it lets Jon date the 21 to 22 year old Jenny if/when she shows up and 2) it allows for a moment to look forward to as a point of significance. If Taylor's reading old Stormwatch then he remembers that Jenny's powers didn't become active till she was 18 or 19. I won't be shocked if Jon's 18th birthday doesn't also come with a boost in power and us learning about Century Babies.

Also wouldn't be shocked if that were next arc.

[Vordan]

God I would love a crossover between SSOKE and Action where Clark & his Authority meet Jenny Quantum. I don’t know if/how they could still make Apollo and Middy her adopted parents, but at the very least I want them to interact with her. Be great to see Apollo and Jon interact too if Jon is going to become queer, Apollo acting as his sort of mentor on how to navigate being a queer hero would be amazing, he’s always been underserved compared to Middy.

All I’m saying Superlad is you’ve got me all excited at the prospect of Jenny showing up soon, so if she doesn’t I’m blaming you

[Superlad93]

All I’m saying Superlad is you’ve got me all excited at the prospect of Jenny showing up soon, so if she doesn’t I’m blaming you

I'll take full responsibility lol

Damn shame if she's no longer Midnigher and Apollo's kid. That's the sort of awkward dinner party I need in my comics!

[Myskin]

It depends on what you mean by "if he flops". I guess that you are referring to the regular title, which IMHO will have relatively good sales for at least one year (and no matter what it sells, I have a feeling that it always be higher than Action Comics).
Well... That's a huge issue. It's another problem with superheroes' children. In addition to all the other potential issues they create, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to get rid of them. Superman titles can stay for a very long time without ever mentioning Supergirl or Kon-El, but it is quite hard to stay without the son of the main character.
One thing's for sure: they are not going to kill Superman's son. That's basically impossible. Sometimes I wonder how the hell Grant Morrison could think that he could seriously kill Damian once and for all after several years of building him as a character. A dead son, for God's sake! It would have added some unnecessary angst for an already grim character for whom the only real, iconic death is his parents'.

Here's the deal though. If they really, really wanted to get rid of him, they could kill him AFTER retconning him as something different from Superman's son. For example, if they said that Jon is actually a fake son created by Brainiac together with fake memories or some **** like that they could have him die - maybe in some glorious act of self-sacrifice. There's an interesting detail - as far as I remember, we never saw any single moment of Jon growing up except for his birth. Which means that they could use some fake memories/timespace shenanigans to retcon him. So... If they wanted they could find a way to kill him, but only after making him something different from Superman's son. It's convoluted, but they could do it.

Of course, it's not impossible for them to de-age him, even if I have thoroughly explained why it is unlikely IMHO. By the way, I am not familiar with Franklin Richards' growth, but as far as I know his "iconic" version is the superpowered kid one. Also: I guess that Franklin Richards had been a kid way for several years before they planned to make him an adult. Which means that the kid version was the "regular" one. As I said earlier, that's not the same situation we have with Jon, who in some time will have been an adult longer than he has been a kid.

All in all, I think that all depends on what they are planning to do with Infinite Frontier. The impression I got is that they are going towards some kind of Anti-Crisis, with more rigidly divided parallel worlds. And I guess that they could use it to reduce the number of characters on the main earth, which is quite high at the moment. They could put Wallace Kent on Earth-2 and leave Wally on Earth-1. I find it interesting that we don't have any JSA title on sight, and I am beginning to wonder whether they are planning to restore the old Earth-1/Earth-2 division - I mean the pre-Crisis version. Should that be the case, I can easily see them placing Jon Kent on E-2 as a son to the original Kal-L (maybe even as the kid version) and a member of Infinity Inc. Or they could restore the classic Super-Sons earth.

P.S. About the "big deal"... I wouldn't overestimate this type of moves, quite frankly. If the New52 has proven anything, it is that they could easily discard entire fictional years of the characters in a heartbeat and replacing them with something different. And Kon-El's quite long career (way, way longer than Jon's, with better sales) and his current irrelevance shows that anything can happen even to apparently popular characters with no huge consequences.

Oh and by the way... (Vordan, this is for you - a detail I forgot). There is a key element which IMHO is more vital than it appears regarding the direction of the DCU, and that is Alfred.
As far as I know, he is still dead, but - IMHO - it is more or less impossible that they won't resurrect him sooner or later. Of course, they could arrange his resurrection in the pages of Batman titles, maybe by reusing the old Outsider storyline. But I think that there is a strong possibility for them to use some Crisis-type crap to bring him back (I am not saying that they are planning a Crisis just for Alfred, but that some stuff may happen in the next event INCLUDING Alfred's resurrection).
The Batman movie is out in 2022. I don't remember how long it will take for Williamson to wrap his Infinite Frontier - or whatever it is called - up, but if I had to take a guess I'd say that Alfred's resurrection will happen at one point between the release of The Batman and the Crisis-type event they are planning.
IF they are using space-time stuff, they will take a chance to reshuffle some ideas which are the basis of the current DCU, including Clark's secret ID. And if they pull a One More Day and they make the Clark persona secret again, Jon won't be Superman anymore. I could be wrong, of course, but the way I see it SuperJon and Clark's ID are more or less interconnected.
At that point, I guess that whatever they are planning for Jon will come to fruition. The current book's sales will probably be a major factor.
I still think that there may be a possibility for Jon to be retconned as the inhabitant of some alternate earth, because - another detail I forgot - at the moment there are at least 5-6 major legacy characters DC is pushing for reasons I am not entirely sure of (Jace Fox, Wonder Girl, etc.). All in all, I think that it is just a byproduct of the aborted 5G plan (more or less like gray-templed Kal-El) and the fact that the editors are not 100% sure of what they are supposed to do with the DCU. But if they wanted, they could actually relocate ALL of them on some alternate earth and make them a modern version of Infinity Inc., or Junior Justice League, or whatever. Maybe they have recently created the Elseworld with this specific purpose in mind, instead of planning to use it for a more classic version of the Trinity. I have some doubts that they are planning to keep Jace Fox and Yara, etc. around forever. But stranger things have happened and at the moment I am not even sure that there will still be a recognizable DCU some years from now.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Oh and by the way... (Vordan, this is for you - a detail I forgot). There is a key element which IMHO is more vital than it appears regarding the direction of the DCU, and that is Alfred.
As far as I know, he is still dead, but - IMHO - it is more or less impossible that they won't resurrect him sooner or later. Of course, they could arrange his resurrection in the pages of Batman titles, maybe by reusing the old Outsider storyline. But I think that there is a strong possibility for them to use some Crisis-type crap to bring him back (I am not saying that they are planning a Crisis just for Alfred, but that some stuff may happen in the next event INCLUDING Alfred's resurrection).
The Batman movie is out in 2022. I don't remember how long it will take for Williamson to wrap his Infinite Frontier - or whatever it is called - up, but if I had to take a guess I had say that Alfred's resurrection will happen at one point between the release of the Batman and the Crisis-type event they are planning.
IF they are using space-time stuff, they will take a chance to reshuffle some ideas which are the basis of the current DCU, including Clark's secret ID. And if they pull a One More Day and they make the Clark persona secret again, Jon won't be Superman anymore. I could be wrong, of course, but the way I see it SuperJon and Clark's ID are more or less interconnected.
At that point, I guess that whatever they are planning for Jon will come to fruition. The current book's sales will probably be a major factor.
I still think that there may be a possibility for Jon to be retconned as the inhabitant of some alternate earth, because - another detail I forgot - at the moment there are at least 5-6 major legacy characters DC is pushing for reasons I am not entirely sure of (Jace Fox, Wonder Girl, etc.). All in all, I think that it is just a byproduct of the aborted 5G plan (more or less like gray-templed Kal-El) and the fact that the editors are not 100% sure of what they are supposed to do with the DCU. But if they wanted, they could actually relocate ALL of them on some alternate earth and make them a modern version of Infinity Inc., or Junior Justice League, or whatever. Maybe they have recently created the Elseworld with this specific purpose in mind, instead of planning to use it for a more classic version of the Trinity. I have some doubts that they are planning to keep Jace Fox and Yara, etc. around forever. But stranger things have happened and at the moment I am not even sure that there will still be a recognizable DCU some years from now.

100% Alfred will be back due to time-shenanigans or mad scientist shenanigans or something. Spinning off all the new legacy characters onto their own Earth would be a smart play. Having Jon, Jace, and Yara side-by-side with Clark, Bruce, and Diana would not be a great way to let those characters come into their own. Giving them space to be their own heroes without readers constantly expecting the "real" Trinity to show up to save the day.

My guess is they'll retrofit the Future State timeline as this new Earth.

[Myskin]

100% Alfred will be back due to time-shenanigans or mad scientist shenanigans or something. Spinning off all the new legacy characters onto their own Earth would be a smart play. Having Jon, Jace, and Yara side-by-side with Clark, Bruce, and Diana would not be a great way to let those characters come into their own. Giving them space to be their own heroes without readers constantly expecting the "real" Trinity to show up to save the day.

My guess is they'll retrofit the Future State timeline as this new Earth.

Movies will play a major factor in it, too - I guess.
I doubt that the current Flash series with Wally West as the main character could be seriously taken as a definite status quo from this moment on. IMHO it is clearly a temporary situation (with secondary creators/storylines) while they are waiting for the Flash movie to be released. The moment the Flash movie is out, Barry Allen will be relaunched and Wally West will become a sidekick again. Batman and Aquaman - same situation. I am not 100% sure about GL, because of the TV series and the fact that John Stewart is a venerable and classic character (not as much as Hal Jordan, but still). But I think that when and if they make something major in terms of movies with the GL franchise, Hal Jordan will be back.

Besides that... There are just too many characters around at the moment and too few titles. I mean, how many Flash-related characters do we have right now? And more are coming from alternate earths. Of course, this is another result of DC's bad planning - the current situation (including Superjon) would make more sense if we were living in the 5G era, but we are not. This is the 5G-lite era, in which they are still trying to figure out what to do.

I don't particularly enjoy Infinite Frontier and I haven't read it with much interest (I barely imagine how anyone could enjoy a book which is basically an updated and particularly messy version of Dc's Who's Who with an extremely thin plot), but there is one specific moment which caught my attention. In one issue, a character (I won't spoil who) rants about the excess of multiversal crossovers. This specific detail, together with all the other info above and the fact that we don't have a clue regarding the Elseworld (and let's not forget the current split between DCEU and new movie continuity) makes me think that at the end of IF we'll have a restored series of rigidly divided earths. So we'll get a more classic Earth-2 (with older heroes and Infinity Inc) and maybe a new Earth with all the Future State timeline, that is an older SuperDad and SuperJon, Jace Fox, etc.

The main titles will be kept for more classic/recognizable versions of the characters: Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince, classic, Jon-less, secret ID Clark Kent. Basically a return to classic, pre-Crisis Earth-1. IMHO, of course.

Incidentally - or maybe not - that's more or less what Geoff Johns had predicted in Doomsday Clock, about 5G becoming its own separate earth in some years.

[oneveryfineday]

Jay feels like the real deal in terms of being Jon's first boyfriend, and it's exactly because of that why I feel like he's also set up to be his Lex.

Just think like a writer for a moment: what is the only way to equal the sort of strong and cultivated bond/friendship that Jon and Damian had as the super sons? What's the only other non family bond that can have as much weight a pathos as childhood best friends? It's first love. On top of that it's going to be a first love that readers are really going to be watching because of the nature of it.

It's in the interest of time too. Taylor doesn't have the trades of Super Sons books to build this relationship. He's gotta get you to that level of emotional investment in however many issues of this book before he pulls the plug. It's manipulative, yes, but it's also very efficient.

And truthfully, it doesn't have to be a negative representation even if Jay isn't on Jon's side after. Magneto isn't really looked at as a villain. The most popular take on him is that he's the Malcom to Prof's Martian, and given the "lets get down to business" vibe I'm picking up from Jay, I'd say he's much the same. It's the old saying that a good villain is the hero of their story.

Looking at it from Jay's perspective Jon would be part of the problem because he's just another person with power who isn't willing to go far enough, and Jay's going to do what Jon won't. Remember Taylor said part of the idea would be about Jon learning where he draws his line? Well, maybe Jay's line is over there while Jon's is over here. But both ultimately want the same thing. Probably better to call Jay an anti-hero or rival rather than villain.

I’m also operating under the assumption that this series is setting up potential adaptations, and that any mainstream adaptations won’t explicitly depict queer relationships. So if Jay is supposed to be a centerpiece to Jon’s lore, that excludes the foundations of Jon and Jay’s relationship being built on a romantic one. Of course DC sometimes plays it fast and loose with their adaptations and in a theoretical movie or whatever they could just say Jon and Jay were childhood friends instead of boyfriends, but that would bring a wave of criticism from fans for erasing a queer relationship. It doesn’t seem worth the trouble when the easier path is to make Jon and Jay’s comic origin as friends who had a falling out instead of lovers. Jon’s most essential lore can’t be queer for adaptation reasons, and a boyfriend has to be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

I have no idea how you got me arguing against Jon/Jay when I was rooting for them at the start. What sorcery is this?!

I mean, I really can’t tell anymore man. DC has cleared the board to take some big swings with Jon lately. Maybe Clark Kent and black Superman is enough for WB on the mainstream movie side and they have different media ideas for Jon. Or maybe they expect the cultural landscape to be different 10 years from now because of demographic trends and DC making Jon queer is what Jim Lee called “future-proofing”. Better to have Jon come out now when he’s still relatively new and not cause the same backlash Tim had. Not to mention this would also open the Supermythos to new avenues of storytelling that you can’t do with Clark, and all that stuff is exciting to me.

I won't be shocked if Jon's 18th birthday doesn't also come with a boost in power and us learning about Century Babies.

Lmao he’s already more powerful than his dad, does he really need more power?

[Vathlonian]

Movies will play a major factor in it, too - I guess.
I doubt that the current Flash series with Wally West as the main character could be seriously taken as a definite status quo from this moment on. IMHO it is clearly a temporary situation (with secondary creators/storylines) while they are waiting for the Flash movie to be released. The moment the Flash movie is out, Barry Allen will be relaunched and Wally West will become a sidekick again. Batman and Aquaman - same situation. I am not 100% sure about GL, because of the TV series and the fact that John Stewart is a venerable and classic character (not as much as Hal Jordan, but still). But I think that when and if they make something major in terms of movies with the GL franchise, Hal Jordan will be back.

Besides that... There are just too many characters around at the moment and too few titles. I mean, how many Flash-related characters do we have right now? And more are coming from alternate earths. Of course, this is another result of DC's bad planning - the current situation (including Superjon) would make more sense if we were living in the 5G era, but we are not. This is the 5G-lite era, in which they are still trying to figure out what to do.

I don't particularly enjoy Infinite Frontier and I haven't read it with much interest (I barely imagine how anyone could enjoy a book which is basically an updated and particularly messy version of Dc's Who's Who with an extremely thin plot), but there is one specific moment which caught my attention. In one issue, a character (I won't spoil who) rants about the excess of multiversal crossovers. This specific detail, together with all the other info above and the fact that we don't have a clue regarding the Elseworld (and let's not forget the current split between DCEU and new movie continuity) makes me think that at the end of IF we'll have a restored series of rigidly divided earths. So we'll get a more classic Earth-2 (with older heroes and Infinity Inc) and maybe a new Earth with all the Future State timeline, that is an older SuperDad and SuperJon, Jace Fox, etc.

The main titles will be kept for more classic/recognizable versions of the characters: Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince, classic, Jon-less, secret ID Clark Kent. Basically a return to classic, pre-Crisis Earth-1. IMHO, of course.

Incidentally - or maybe not - that's more or less what Geoff Johns had predicted in Doomsday Clock, about 5G becoming its own separate earth in some years.

*curb your enthusiasm music*

Jon is here to stay and will survive the next crisis event…just like he did in dark metal

DC WILL NEVER ERASE THE QUEER SON OF SUPERMAN…I don’t see how hard it is to accept that a company would not jump on this grenade

See you in 5 years when Jon is still here


The best you can hope for is Jon-less Superman being confined to non-canon comics just like Superman 78


Not main continuity…not a chance in hell

No comic book writer wants to be known as the guy who erased Superman’s queer son, they will be blacklisted due to sheer backlash

[Vordan]

I think you’re on the right track Myskin, but I think you have it backwards. I think the Elseworld will be where new versions of the classic heroes will be and the new guard will stay on Earth 0. The Elseworld will more or less function as DC’s equivalent to the “Ultimate Universe” and that’s where you will get young, unmarried, secret identity-having Clark Kent.

[Myskin]

I think you’re on the right track Myskin, but I think you have it backwards. I think the Elseworld will be where new versions of the classic heroes will be and the new guard will stay on Earth 0. The Elseworld will more or less function as DC’s equivalent to the “Ultimate Universe” and that’s where you will get young, unmarried, secret identity-having Clark Kent.

Yes, I know that this was a recurring idea when the concept was introduced. And I actually agreed.
But now I have got a feeling that we all got it wrong. For one simple reason: no matter how much time passes, "THE" version of the characters DC always come back to, the one they highlight the most (especially in historically relevant titles, such as Action Comics and Detective Comics) is always the most iconic and recognizable one: secret ID Clark, Alfred as part of the main cast, Barry Allen Flash, etc. This is what they have always done, historically speaking.
I really can't see DC leaving the main titles to newly introduced characters and creating an entire line of 4, 5 new titles just to relaunch the veteran heroes. This is something Marvel did - with considerable success - 20+ years ago. But for a series of reasons, including the progressively thinning market, I am not sure that it would work today.
And one more thing: are we sure that these newly introduced characters would be able to carry important titles on their shoulders indefinitely? Can we really see Jace Fox being A Batman (not Nightwing or Batwing) without John Ridley? How long will Yara Flor survive, now that we know that her TV series has been canned? Jon himself has been around for 6 years - and approximately 3 as an adult superhero. That's nothing, especially in comparison to 80-year-old Superman. Again, it all depends on what they are planning to do with the current title, but I am not really sure that in one-two years Jon's tenure will be as apparently stable as it is today.

Again, anything's possible and much depends on what they are planning to do with the movies (and whether DC publisher will still be what currently is).

(Just to be clear: personally speaking, even if we had a classic Superman back on Action Comics or even on an Elseworld title, I seriously doubt that I would read it on a regular basis, or at all. My interest these days is for the BTS and the corporate development, but I am rather disillusioned regarding the state of American comics as a form of art right now, which is the only thing which really counts as far as I am concerned - not Jon, not the multiverse splitting, just the narration).

[Vordan]

Hah no I didn’t expect you to come back, you’re clearly burnt out on corporate comics. I don’t believe Jace, Jon, Yara, etc could carry the line on their own either, but they wouldn’t. The OGs would keep their books and simply share the mantles as they do right now. So Bruce would still be in Batman and Tec while Jace continues in I Am Batman (assuming they don’t give Jace Tec or what not down the line), Jon would be in SSOKE while Clark stayed in Action, and Diana would keep WW while Yara probably gets a Yara Flor: WW title.

Then for those who want young versions of the classic heroes, the Elseworld would be where they will be, and DC will start building up a “side universe” to revamp the OGs as young and fresh. New 52 done right essentially, that’s my guess.

[Myskin]

Hah no I didn’t expect you to come back, you’re clearly burnt out on corporate comics. I don’t believe Jace, Jon, Yara, etc could carry the line on their own either, but they wouldn’t. The OGs would keep their books and simply share the mantles as they do right now. So Bruce would still be in Batman and Tec while Jace continues in I Am Batman (assuming they don’t give Jace Tec or what not down the line), Jon would be in SSOKE while Clark stayed in Action, and Diana would keep WW while Yara probably gets a Yara Flor: WW title.

Then for those who want young versions of the classic heroes, the Elseworld would be where they will be, and DC will start building up a “side universe” to revamp the OGs as young and fresh. New 52 done right essentially, that’s my guess.

Yes, I understand your point and - of course - it is possible you are right. But again, I still think that there are more hints towards a different direction, including - as I said in a previous post - the current state of the DCU and some specific situations.
I am under the impression is that in one-two years the newly introduced characters (Jace Fox, Jon etc) won't be strong enough to carry on their own title. But they could be strong enough to keep a very limited line of books alive. I can see a line of two-three books (maybe Superjon, BatJace and JL with the new non-binary Flash and Yara Flor) with the characters in their own universe/timeline, no interference from classic heroes and the possibility to expand their universe into a distinct direction. Again, it would be very similar to another Marvel experiment, the MC2, which allowed characters like Mayday Parker to be published for a pretty long time. And as it happened with MC2 - the line would exist as long as there will be enough readers interested in it.
But there are more hints of a relaunch/reset of the classic characters some years from now. Series such as GL or The Flash right now look like placeholders before the return of the most iconic version of those characters. Gray-templed Superman looks quite temporary too - what happens when he comes back to Earth and we have two main Supermen and the secret ID still out? And is it really possible for DC to keep Alfred DEAD indefinitely on the main titles and have him alive on an Elseworld book?

By the way... There's another interesting detail. When Marvel created the Ultimate Line, it was 100% separate from the MCU (the first crossovers happened 10 years or something after the creation of the imprint). But apparently the DC characters are aware of the existence of the Elseworld. Which means that if Jon became the Elseworld Superman and Clark stayed on main Earth, there could still be the possibility of a crossover. And now that I think about it, it would solve the Legion problem, too, because we would have two different Legions for two different worlds.

And one more thing... Check the description of Jon in Williamson's (terribly verbose) prose in one of the Infinite Frontier issues. He described him as a character out of his time, or something like that. Doesn't it sound like someone who is looking for a home, or a world of some sort?

[Vordan]

That part was written by PKJ who said that a lot of people took it the wrong way lol. A lot of people read that and thought Jon was going to be evil, or like you that he was going to be erased/moved to another world/etc. PKJ said the Spectre is meant to be wrong about Jon, that he won’t go evil and he won’t be shuffled off of the main Earth.

Personally I just don’t think DC would reboot the main line again, I think it’s more likely they try to make an “Ultimate” line which is why they’re emphasizing the Multiverse, why Justice Incarnate is getting a lot of attention. DC moving Earth 0 out of its position as the “central” Earth and making Earth Alpha and Earth Omega the new centers is also a sign to me that they’re de-emphasizing E0 as the one Earth that “matters”. It’s all meant to get people to care about other Earths so that when Elseworld comes, people view it as just as important.

It also synergizes nicely with the DCEU where there isn’t going to be one “main” continuity anymore, you’ll have Battison and Coates Superman alongside Gadot WW and the rest.

[Myskin]

DC moving Earth 0 out of its position as the “central” Earth and making Earth Alpha and Earth Omega the new centers is also a sign to me that they’re de-emphasizing E0 as the one Earth that “matters”. It’s all meant to get people to care about other Earths so that when Elseworld comes, people view it as just as important.

Ok, I get it, but when all is said and done there is one continuity, or rather one group of titles, that "matters". I mean, OK, they are doing what you have just described for commercial purposes, but IMHO the historically relevant titles like Action Comics and Detective Comics will survive any Elseworld title or alternate earth (they already survived the Earth-One line).

By the way... Whatever they are planning to do, I think that Damian Wayne is immune to it. He will stay within the "regular" Batman family. IMHO it is quite revealing that Jon had started as a Damian-like character but now he is in the same league as BatJace, WonderFlor etc (as the Future State titles confirm - yes, I know that there were some aborted plans for Damian, I am talking about the titles we got). But Damian has been around since 2006 - that's 15 friggin' years. He is the most important member of the Batfamily besides Nightwing. They will relocate Tim Drake on a different earth before they do it with Damian.

Maybe we should pay more attention to what is currently happening with the JSA. I haven't followed it much, but - as far as I have seen, and I could be wrong - I find it interesting that the JSA has had just a few to no interactions with classic members of the JL since they were reintroduced after the latest event, and that a planned JSA series was aborted. Correct me if I am wrong - aren't there THREE main earths at the center of the multiverse right now (Elseworld, Earth-0 and Earth-Omega)? And isn't it possible that the JSA could be relocated on a reformed Earth-Omega after Infinite Frontier?
I'll tell you this.... Whatever happens with the JSA (provided something happens) it will be MORE important than whatever happens with Jon, Yara and Jace. If - and it's a big if - they recreate the classic Earth-1/Earth-2 dynamics - basically resetting Earth-0's continuity, with Superman as the first hero on E-0 - in terms of continuity it will be the most important moment since Crisis on Infinite Earths. And - provided I am right - I can see them using the three main earths as basis for the JSA (the past), the JL (the present) and 5G (the future).

Also: I find it interesting that some characters are basically glitching between their pre-Crisis version and post-Crisis one, as it happened in a recent issue of IF (Mister Bones) - it was the only moment in the entire issue I understood, quite frankly.

[Betinayen]

This is something I've wrestled with, and while I agree it may have the potential for unfavorable optics, I also don't put it past DC, and that's why I felt like I needed to add it. I could see Taylor (who likely pitched a queer Jon to begin with) going for this idea with only the best of intentions.

But I don't think an actual triangle would be needed. I think Jenny's likely part of this, and we'll meet her in this arc or the next, and that'll leave things set up for her as Jon's rebound/comfort after the blow out with Jay.



I don't agree with that because now we're getting well into the territory of IPs. Jenny is an IP that Lee and DC want to push, and that's why she was to date Jon in the first place. Even though I was the one who came up with the gender bending theory for Jay as the new "Jenny", I've since gone back on it for a number of reasons. For one, like sated before, Jenny Sparks/Quantum is an IP and under a trade mark. Lee isn't trying to push new characters with Wildstorm ideas (he's good with that clearly, but it's not his priority), he's trying to push his WS characters.

Plus, 5G seems to have the habit of finding its way into this era regardless of who the writers are. Clearly PKJ didn't pitch Superman leading The Authority. We know that DC pitched that to Morrison, and then Morrison shaped it. If DC was willing to let PKJ or any of the other creators just do whatever then could've worked them in another way, but HE had to do the bending. He had to contrive a reason for Clark's powers to fade and for him to LEAD The Authority even on his big space quest.

So with that in mind, I have to imagine that Taylor is somewhat beholden to a general 5G outline on some plot points that he can hit as he sees fit, and one of those plot points is likely Jon needs to date Jenny.

But ultimately, I do agree that the real thing that will rip Jon and Jay apart will be an ideological divide rather than any love triangle.

I have to say one thing, this whole theory of Jenny being Jay, I, as a woman, think it's very problematic
, and I hope Dc doesn't do that, ... But Jay being Jon's Lex would be a very good thing ,And I hope Jay is a charismatic character