Superman: son of Kal-El

[Vathlonian]

I know a lot of people talk about Rowan kent and the Superman dynasty


But we have to remember that if push comes to shove…the kryptonian birthing matrix will aid Jon and “insert male character” in their quest to have biological children

[Vordan]

I imagine the relative recentness of this is why the reports/rumors say they're still deciding on what to label him. They have to consider outside media's plans and what they're already written as recently as last year.

The ideal would be for him to be like Dick Grayson in that you have sections of fans that say "Jon and Jay forever", others that say "Jon and Jenny or nothing", and fans that'll maybe even go "hey remember Saturn Girl".

Yep that’s what I envision as well. Endless shipping wars to keep people engaged with the character.

I know a lot of people talk about Rowan kent and the Superman dynasty


But we have to remember that if push comes to shove…the kryptonian birthing matrix will aid Jon and “insert male character” in their quest to have biological children

That thing doesn’t even exist anymore, Clark is a natural birth now, and it was never used that way before. Byrne Clark was tempted by Maxima to have kids precisely because he and Lois couldn’t, there was never any indication that it could produce human/Kryptonian offspring. Besides, it hasn’t even been established what Jon’s sexuality will be yet. Rich said they haven’t decided on a label yet, he could be bi or pan, and I’m expecting him to be one of those because that allows the CW to keep doing their own thing with Jon. Or they could change their minds entirely, it’s DC, wouldn’t be the first time things changed especially with the Discovery buyout on the way.

Plus there’s no chance of Jon getting married and having offspring anyway, not in main continuity. That would make Clark a grandfather and that’s not happening.

[Superlad93]

I know a lot of people talk about Rowan kent and the Superman dynasty


But we have to remember that if push comes to shove…the kryptonian birthing matrix will aid Jon and “insert male character” in their quest to have biological children

It's not at all about IF he can. No one is arguing IF it's possible. There are real world ways to give two men a bio child. The fact of the matter is that we'll never see the in continuity child of Jon Kent, and because of that there will be no outlet to explain whatever way Jon has a child-- be it comic book science or real world science.

You'd have no moment to explain it (Jon at 17 isn't going to be looking for surrogate moms. That's ridiculous), and if it's a comic book science way of doing things, there's no telling if that concept will be there in any of the following runs do to the nature of comics. But paradoxically Jon does have direct descendants that are already firmly in continuity (Mon-El and his three daughters). This wasn't an issue with Clark beforehand in the Silver Age because "the old fashion way" of having kids was implied. While DC could leave it up the well educated minds of the readers how Jon had kids, chances are they won't.

But even if it's implied that Jon has kids with a woman and that's how we get his descendants, that doesn't mean he stays with that woman forever. The concept of a blended family one that's growing more and more in media.

Yep that’s what I envision as well. Endless shipping wars to keep people engaged with the character.

Exactly. Opening things up to male and female love interests will only add to that and sustain Jon's character for years to come.

[Quinlan58]

It's beyond weird to see shipping wars as something people look forward to instead of being nigh-universally recognized as the bane of fandoms, but I guess properties do get a lot of fandom engagement that way.

[Superlad93]

It's beyond weird to see shipping wars as something people look forward to instead of being nigh-universally recognized as the bane of fandoms, but I guess properties do get a lot of fandom engagement that way.

I mean, have you seen X-Men? Scott Summers and Jean Grey don't get nearly the level of fandom engagement they do now if it weren't for shipping talk. Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane was a book in large part made for that. Superman dating Wonder Woman for real had its own press release.

My only real trepidation with this whole thing is that it'll be so easy for writers after Taylor to take the wrong lessons with them. If Jon is to be queer then I'm really, really hoping that he's not "the queer Superman who can sometimes be proactive" but rather "The Proactive & About Change Superman...who, oh yeah, happens to be queer." This take so far is a nice balance of introspection and an eye on the actual needs around you. The Superman IP has a bad habit of being almost completely about introspection. That's why we get so many Krypton stories. And it feels like DC has finally settled and said "this is what Clark Kent is about" because the Superman & Lois is almost exclusively introspection, and it works quite well, but that's not what I hope for Jon as Superman.

[Vordan]

It's beyond weird to see shipping wars as something people look forward to instead of being nigh-universally recognized as the bane of fandoms, but I guess properties do get a lot of fandom engagement that way.

Oh they are cancerous, make no mistake. But they’re great at driving engagement. Just look at Spider-Man, how the hint that he could end up back with MJ drives people nuts, or conversely how many people love him and Gwen or him and Black Cat. Look at the Supergirl show, shipping Kara with Mon-El or Lena is basically all anyone on Twitter talks about. Clark hasn’t gotten that level of excitement since the New 52. His relationship with Lois is loving and stable 99% of the time, Clark’s love life isn’t a source of drama anymore or interest. But Jon’s could be.

He doesn’t have a “Lois” or an “MJ” and he never should get one outside of Elseworlds. Jon needs to be basically what Marvel wants Peter Parker to be: an eternal youth never moving on into adulthood (ironic I know given the age up). He can be shipped with anyone and they’re all “valid” because he’s never going to tie the knot with any of them.

I mean, have you seen X-Men? Scott Summers and Jean Grey don't get nearly the level of fandom engagement they do now if it weren't for shipping talk. Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane was a book in large part made for that. Superman dating Wonder Woman for real had its own press release.

My only real trepidation with this whole thing is that it'll be so easy for writers after Taylor to take the wrong lessons with them. If Jon is to be queer then I'm really, really hoping that he's not "the queer Superman who can sometimes be proactive" but rather "The Proactive & About Change Superman...who, oh yeah, happens to be queer." This take so far is a nice balance of introspection and an eye on the actual needs around you. The Superman IP has a bad habit of being almost completely about introspection. That's why we get so many Krypton stories. And it feels like DC has finally settled and said "this is what Clark Kent is about" because the Superman & Lois is almost exclusively introspection, and it works quite well, but that's not what I hope for Jon as Superman.

To be perfectly honest I don’t think Taylor is going to handle it well at all lol, but what Jon ends up being is really in the hands of the editors and the writers who came after. Tim for example is almost certainly going to become the “gay Robin” since he’s lacked a niche for so long and that gives him an identity that lets him stand out. Part of why they may have cleared the board for Jon is to try to avoid Jon becoming one-note, letting him have the whole field to himself while Taylor builds him up until a full fleshed out character is present.

But unfortunately Superman in particular is a character that frequently gets robbed of all nuance so I don’t know what Jon will end up becoming.

[Superlad93]

To be perfectly honest I don’t think Taylor is going to handle it well at all lol,

Honestly, that doesn't actually matter. The fact of the matter is if he has any singular talent at all it's his ability to market the character to the masses within the story. He doesn't need to write the greatest proactive activist Superman story ever...he just needs to get across that central idea to the masses as much as possible, and he already is.

That conversation between Jon and his father that has people online talking is *exactly* why you get him. As the specifics of his run fad way with time (like all runs do) what will be left are the moments outside of context, and *that* is Tom Taylor's bread and butter. You have him spend a whole run via moments driving home "this Superman is an activist and proactive" and that's going to find its way into the growing lexicon that people have for Jon as Superman.

[Vordan]

Honestly, that doesn't actually matter. The fact or the matter is if he has any singular talent at all it's his ability to market the character to the masses within the story. He doesn't need to write the greatest proactive activist Superman story ever...he just needs to get across that central idea to the masses as much as possible, and he already is.

That conversation between Jon and his father that has people online talking is *exactly* why you get him. As the specifics of his run fad way with time (like all runs do) what will be left are the moments outside of context, and *that* is Tom Taylor's bread and butter. You have him spend a whole run via moments driving home "this Superman is an activist and proactive" and that's going to find its way into the growing lexicon that people have for Jon as Superman.

Taylor does write his comics to have panels endlessly cut out and shared on social media, I can’t deny that lol. And as long as it sinks in that Jon is more proactive and assertive that’s not a bad thing, the kids who only know Superman through Instagram will at least have pages telling them Jon does stuff differently.

[Betinayen]

Also House of El having Ronan and Rowan being descended from Jon (and I think Brandon Kent as well?). Don’t know if they were planning to make him queer at the time, I suspect they weren’t if they are now, Jon was clearly meant to be into women in Future State given he and Irma were still a couple in FS: LoSH.

Given the CW also has their “Jon” being straight, I think he will ultimately be bi or pan as well since there’s probably considerations that must be made to how synergy will all work out. We know that’s a big part of all the comics DC makes these days.

Jon should never get married. Ever. To anyone. Let him have an endless rotation of love interests be they women or men or other, there will assuredly be fan favorites Jon returns to, but never any he actually ends up with in canon. That will allow the soap opera aspect to fuel his fandom, and that kind of relationship drama is something he can have that Clark can’t. I can easily see an appeal to Jon with how he doesn’t have a love interest he’s “going” to end up with the way Clark and Lois were portrayed.

I agree with you about jon have an endless rotation of love interests , but I don't trust DC , I remember the new 52 superman had this opportunity and DC killed everything right at the beginning , I'm afraid they'll do the same here with Jon ..

[Will Evans]

Yep that’s what I envision as well. Endless shipping wars to keep people engaged with the character.

That thing doesn’t even exist anymore, Clark is a natural birth now, and it was never used that way before. Byrne Clark was tempted by Maxima to have kids precisely because he and Lois couldn’t, there was never any indication that it could produce human/Kryptonian offspring. Besides, it hasn’t even been established what Jon’s sexuality will be yet. Rich said they haven’t decided on a label yet, he could be bi or pan, and I’m expecting him to be one of those because that allows the CW to keep doing their own thing with Jon. Or they could change their minds entirely, it’s DC, wouldn’t be the first time things changed especially with the Discovery buyout on the way.

Plus there’s no chance of Jon getting married and having offspring anyway, not in main continuity. That would make Clark a grandfather and that’s not happening.

Lol. It works for Goku.

[manwhohaseverything]

Lol. It works for Goku.

Goku and the gang have dragon balls.It's in built how they can stay the same.Goku himself as a saiyan ages different ly.He wouldn't show age for a while.

[Vordan]

Yeah also consider that Clark being a grandfather means everyone else has to age too. Bruce should be DKR or KC old. You can do Lazarus Pits to get around that, but what about the non superhero supporting cast? The Kents would be dead, Selina and Lois would be grannies themselves, Dick wouldn’t be a young man anymore, hell none of the Titans would be, and so on and so forth. No it’s never going to happen, the world simply isn’t built to accommodate that. DB can get away with it because only the Saiyans matter, the rest are just canon fodder.

[Will Evans]

Goku and the gang have dragon balls.It's in built how they can stay the same.Goku himself as a saiyan ages different ly.He wouldn't show age for a while.

He’s still a grandfather though.

[witchboy]

Peeking into alternate and maybe-real futures is a common thing in comics. I wouldn't be surprised if someday we did see a future John as a father, but it shouldn't happen in the present ever.
So at least we could see a version - or more than one version - of how Jon could become a father. Being non-heterosexual and a father shouldn't be seen as a storytelling problem, not when it happens in real life.

[oneveryfineday]

SoKE #2 is first on the ComiXology Top 10 charts

I can see this series doing okay in physical sales but doing really well digitally. I think issue #1 itself peaked at third so it appears that awareness is growing around this book, especially since Jon can’t so much as breath without producing another widely circulated outrage clickbait headline lol (even better when it has to be clarified “they’re not talking about Clark, they’re talking about his son”)

That conversation between Jon and his father that has people online talking is *exactly* why you get him.

I remember saying that Jon could be different than his dad and no one would give a f*ck about it, but it turns out that people give many f*cks about it, which is actually better. It’s interesting to see where Jon causes friction against the cultural idea of Superman but it will help shape him into his own thing.