Page 115 of 208 FirstFirst ... 1565105111112113114115116117118119125165 ... LastLast
Results 1,711 to 1,725 of 3110
  1. #1711
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,221

    Default

    It not being new doesn't mean that its not stupid.

  2. #1712
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,030

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    https://twitter.com/maxvonpriestley/...682129922?s=21

    Very amusing to read the replies to this, especially since Taylor helped contribute to the idea that Superman can’t be anything but useless or he’ll be evil, and now he’s trying to repudiate that with Jon.
    This just reminds me of how in Nightwing he's all like "I always felt like Batman could do more as Bruce Wayne" even though he's probably done as much as Bruce Wayne as he humanly could, but in the context of this run it'll totally be different for the protagonist .

  3. #1713
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    26,376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This just reminds me of how in Nightwing he's all like "I always felt like Batman could do more as Bruce Wayne" even though he's probably done as much as Bruce Wayne as he humanly could, but in the context of this run it'll totally be different for the protagonist .
    He panders to Twitter, like that review of his first arc I posted in the Nightwing thread said, Taylor is all about the memes. It’s a huge turn off for me personally but it’s key to his success. Now he’s going against the grain here with Jon, so he’s gotta paddle upriver against ideas he helped implant such as the whole “slippery slope” concept found in Injustice about Superman being proactive. He is at least aware of this considering he described SSOKE as an “anti-Injustice”, so I’ll give him credit for foreseeing how some would react.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  4. #1714
    All-New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    https://twitter.com/maxvonpriestley/...682129922?s=21

    Very amusing to read the replies to this, especially since Taylor helped contribute to the idea that Superman can’t be anything but useless or he’ll be evil, and now he’s trying to repudiate that with Jon.
    The idea of Superman "doing more" isn't new. There are already quite a few stories about that issue like the twitter replies mention and they aren't necessarily stories that involve Superman devolving into being evil because he wanted to end world hunger or whatever. The stance most writers take on this issue is that if Superman forces people to change then it isn't a meaningful or lasting change and so he tries to "inspire" humanity to change. Justified by his belief in the fundamental good in humanity.

    There's room to argue against this idea but DC isn't in a rush to do so because DC still wants its world to resemble our own with its similar underlying societal problems and to allow continuous Superman stories to be told. So Superman can't "do more" because the way the world is set up does not allow it. It's an issue that Taylor is going to have to grapple with in his own story. Jon is not going to succeed in solving climate change or stopping the rise of fascism. He isn't allowed to.

  5. #1715
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,030

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oddish1 View Post
    The idea of Superman "doing more" isn't new. There are already quite a few stories about that issue like the twitter replies mention and they aren't necessarily stories that involve Superman devolving into being evil because he wanted to end world hunger or whatever. The stance most writers take on this issue is that if Superman forces people to change then it isn't a meaningful or lasting change and so he tries to "inspire" humanity to change. Justified by his belief in the fundamental good in humanity.

    There's room to argue against this idea but DC isn't in a rush to do so because DC still wants its world to resemble our own with its similar underlying societal problems and to allow continuous Superman stories to be told. So Superman can't "do more" because the way the world is set up does not allow it. It's an issue that Taylor is going to have to grapple with in his own story. Jon is not going to succeed in solving climate change or stopping the rise of fascism. He isn't allowed to.
    At best he might get some artificial wins that will make it seem like he's made a difference but probably won't shake up the status quo in the long run.

  6. #1716
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Anyone else remember an interview where Taylor mentioned that Jon would be overthrowing a dictator? I'm sure I didn't imagine it because it was part of Taylor listing off the things that would get people worried about Jon's actions. If anyone remembers the interview please link it.
    I don’t seem to recall Taylor saying that Jon was going to overthrow a dictatorship, but this seems to be close to what you’re saying:

    And yes, just because he's angry about the climate crisis, or he's angry about guns, or he's angry about dictatorships, or is angry about or upset about all empathizing with refugees, it doesn't mean he can act on all of that without destabilizing the world. You know, he has to tread lightly, but he is younger.
    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/tom-ta...l-el-dc-comics

    And Taylor has also mentioned that Jon will overstep a bit and powers will come to stomp him down. https://youtu.be/cREg3AmFAXU (around the 9:10 mark)

    So we don’t know how far Jon will go, but he’s definitely going to be making some people mad.

    On a separate topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    This parallel, plus the 5G Damian idea, and Bendix no longer being in power of the island nation really does make me think that Jay's gonna go bad (more like anti-hero extremist) and break our boy's heart one way or another. Damn, poor Jon.
    The possibility of Jay going bad makes me wonder if Jon will eventually end up discarding the identity Jay creates for him, the same way Jon ended up discarding (or blowing) the Finn Connors identity created by Batman and Oracle. Either way, Jay’s ominous words about being “smaller” and “lesser” makes me think the new ID is not meant to last nor be a representation of who Jon is. What I’d really like to see is Jon ending up using multiple identities a la Superman 2020.



    Unlike the Clark Kent persona which is as primary as Superman, Jon doesn’t need a new permanent civilian identity to be understood as a character. There’s also little point to DC outing Jon’s identity only to put him back into the traditional status quo. However we see that the secret ID stuff is still in play, just at a different angle. I think “Jon Kent as Superman” is the main deal, and he’ll take up various other identities (whether created by other people or himself) which are more secondary and fleeting and meant to mostly be functional, just as in SoKE #2.

    That doesn’t mean it can’t be mined for drama. It will be all sorts of painful for Jon if he has to let go of the identity created by—given by—Jay because of possible betrayal, and Jon will have to create another new persona afterwards. I think this kind of shuffling through secret IDs fits in what PKJ said about Jon “always searching” for his place in the world.

  7. #1717
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    26,376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    At best he might get some artificial wins that will make it seem like he's made a difference but probably won't shake up the status quo in the long run.
    Likely, but similar to Morrison’s reboot of Clark, it’s that making it a core characteristic that he’s willing to occasionally try as opposed to how most versions of Clark since Byrne become Superman “knowing” they can’t interfere that makes a big difference. That means going “back to basics” with Jon has a very different core than with Clark, which I assume is a big part of what they want.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #1718
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,030

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Likely, but similar to Morrison’s reboot of Clark, it’s that making it a core characteristic that he’s willing to occasionally try as opposed to how most versions of Clark since Byrne become Superman “knowing” they can’t interfere that makes a big difference. That means going “back to basics” with Jon has a very different core than with Clark, which I assume is a big part of what they want.
    The second coming of New 52 Supes that people demanded, just no in the way they might have wanted .

  9. #1719
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The second coming of New 52 Supes that people demanded, just no in the way they might have wanted .
    Nah! new52 superman is a superman of the old.Jon just seems different.He doesn't have the id.He seems more content and at ease.Jon is laidback on the outside,which might be different on the inside gauging from him seeking out damian and the truth.Clark was a ball of fire inside and out.There was no duality in emotional space for clark(disclaimer superman is his real identity.not clark.Superman wore his heart on his sleeve).as superman inspiring people to change, I don't see it and i don't care for it.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  10. #1720
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Planet Houston
    Posts
    5,360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    I don’t seem to recall Taylor saying that Jon was going to overthrow a dictatorship, but this seems to be close to what you’re saying:

    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/tom-ta...l-el-dc-comics

    And Taylor has also mentioned that Jon will overstep a bit and powers will come to stomp him down. https://youtu.be/cREg3AmFAXU (around the 9:10 mark)

    So we don’t know how far Jon will go, but he’s definitely going to be making some people mad.

    On a separate topic:



    The possibility of Jay going bad makes me wonder if Jon will eventually end up discarding the identity Jay creates for him, the same way Jon ended up discarding (or blowing) the Finn Connors identity created by Batman and Oracle. Either way, Jay’s ominous words about being “smaller” and “lesser” makes me think the new ID is not meant to last nor be a representation of who Jon is. What I’d really like to see is Jon ending up using multiple identities a la Superman 2020.



    Unlike the Clark Kent persona which is as primary as Superman, Jon doesn’t need a new permanent civilian identity to be understood as a character. There’s also little point to DC outing Jon’s identity only to put him back into the traditional status quo. However we see that the secret ID stuff is still in play, just at a different angle. I think “Jon Kent as Superman” is the main deal, and he’ll take up various other identities (whether created by other people or himself) which are more secondary and fleeting and meant to mostly be functional, just as in SoKE #2.

    That doesn’t mean it can’t be mined for drama. It will be all sorts of painful for Jon if he has to let go of the identity created by—given by—Jay because of possible betrayal, and Jon will have to create another new persona afterwards. I think this kind of shuffling through secret IDs fits in what PKJ said about Jon “always searching” for his place in the world.
    Its sort of fitting given that Jon is basically "Superman 2021"
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  11. #1721
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Likely, but similar to Morrison’s reboot of Clark, it’s that making it a core characteristic that he’s willing to occasionally try as opposed to how most versions of Clark since Byrne become Superman “knowing” they can’t interfere that makes a big difference. That means going “back to basics” with Jon has a very different core than with Clark, which I assume is a big part of what they want.
    It really isn't said enough how uninspiring it is to see a grown man who's afraid to try. Kind of gutted modern Superman's desire to be inspiring when he's afraid of doing anything that isn't a certainty for him.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  12. #1722
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,030

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Nah! new52 superman is a superman of the old.Jon just seems different.He doesn't have the id.He seems more content and at ease.Jon is laidback on the outside,which might be different on the inside gauging from him seeking out damian and the truth.Clark was a ball of fire inside and out.There was no duality in emotional space for clark(disclaimer superman is his real identity.not clark.Superman wore his heart on his sleeve).as superman inspiring people to change, I don't see it and i don't care for it.
    I thought people liked New 52 Superman having a chip on his shoulder.
    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    It really isn't said enough how uninspiring it is to see a grown man who's afraid to try. Kind of gutted modern Superman's desire to be inspiring when he's afraid of doing anything that isn't a certainty for him.
    I think he tries more than people give him credit for.

  13. #1723
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Its sort of fitting given that Jon is basically "Superman 2021"
    I’ll always lament that the stars didn’t align for Jon to become Superman in 2020. It was only just one year off! (and a whole generation, but we can ignore that)

    _______________

    I find that upon re-reading Kalel Kent’s stories he and Jon Kent share a lot of similarities: Kalel Kent publicly debuted as a teenage Superman in the 2020s, he went to college, his inexperience sometimes gets the better of him, he uses multiple secret IDs for utilitarian purposes, and he’s concerned with global social issues like pollution and overpopulation. He’s even got that reckless Golden Age/New 52 personality that’s specifically contrasted against Clark’s.



    Additionally, New Metropolis (an experimental floating city designed to alleviate problems with overpopulation) also opens at the same time Kalel debuts as the new Superman, and I have a theory that Jon will also be getting a “new” Metropolis if/when Metropolis becomes an eco city that’s designed to alleviate problems with climate change, like in Future State. Both ideas place a brand new Superman in a re-imagined, environmentally conscious Metropolis.

    For all the Superman successor prototypes out there, I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the vision of Superman 2020 from a handful of backups in the 80s is fairly close to the actual 2020s Superman successor.

  14. #1724
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought people liked New 52 Superman having a chip on his shoulder.
    I do.i was saying they are different.but,jon is more internalised with his struggle..He doesn't go around "rats with money and rats with guns..i am your worst nightmare".jon is still finding his place.Clark pretty much knows what he wants to do..
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-07-2021 at 06:45 AM.
    "People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"

  15. #1725
    All-New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    It really isn't said enough how uninspiring it is to see a grown man who's afraid to try. Kind of gutted modern Superman's desire to be inspiring when he's afraid of doing anything that isn't a certainty for him.
    I always liked the idea that Superman puts out the big fires while Clark Kent uses his journalism to highlight underlying issues. I was pleased to see there was actually a Red and Blue issue recently that touched on this dynamic. Superman would save the day and Clark Kent would write an story about the cause of the problem but Superman's heroics would overshadow Clark Kent's journalism until Clark decided to write about Superman himself. It's an idea that I think has merit but I don't recall being explored much.

    And of course they can't do it now because the Clark Kent identity is effectively gone.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •