Superman: son of Kal-El

[Alpha]

DC One Million and All-Star Superman might not be in main continuity, but I think it is impossible to ignore at this point that Morrison's take on Superman's legacy, Superman dynasty in particular, is taking over.
Morrison is back doing Superman stories. PJK consulted Morrison on Future State and probably his Superman run in general. House of El is basically a variation of Superman dynasty. Even something unrelated like that Superman/Lois pitch looked like it would fit perfectly into All-Star/One Million universe.

DC is obviously changing things around a bit. For example, Jon will be Superman, while Clark is still operating on Earth, but the core ideas are the same, I think.

Thing is, Clark has been Superman for how long? 25 years at most? All those stories hint at the other Supermen coming long after the present.

[Prime]

Thing is, Clark has been Superman for how long? 25 yeard at most? All those stories hint at the other Supermen coming long after the present.

How old is Clark currently? 40's?

[Alpha]

I love that in Batman Beyond Clark is still Superman and leader of the Justice League. And I can't see DC erasing that possibility.

[Prime]

That takes place in Earth 12 though. Superman there technically has a son with WW. But not really lol

[Alpha]

Probably in his 40s, which for a Kryptonian means nothing physically. And his world is still pretty much the same as when he started his career, whoch is the opposite of what I expect from a story about Clark grooming someone elae to take over.

[Alpha]

I'm not saying it's canon, I'm saying it fits the narrative of the DC Universe.

[Prime]

Probably in his 40s, which for a Kryptonian means nothing physically. And his world is still pretty much the same as when he started his career, whoch is the opposite of what I expect from a story about Clark grooming someone elae to take over.

Superman probably ages the same as a viltrumite. I remember Earth 2 Superman actually going to be revealed that he stopped aging after a bit

[OopsIdiditagain]

Well to be fair manga is mostly black and white so it would cost less anyway

and it's paper back.

[Vordan]

I love that in Batman Beyond Clark is still Superman and leader of the Justice League. And I can't see DC erasing that possibility.

Even PKJ’s House of El stuff still has Clark around and being Superman, he’s just off touring the galaxy/imprisoned in other dimensions. That’s what happened in One Million if I recall correctly, and Beyond as well. Lois died (can’t remember if it was of old age or not), and Clark decided now was the time to go see what else was out there since “Clark Kent” was more or less finished.

[Robanker]

As soon as I saw this announced, I knew I should stay away from these boards for a few days because I just knew it'd be a hellscape. As fate would have it, I am a prophet. BOW TO ME!

In all seriousness, I'm going to weigh in and say that I didn't want Jon to be Superman in a present sense, or at least in the main line. I liked him better as the kid grappling with legacy but still growing. A lot has been said about other possible Supermen and the conversation has grown quite ugly, so I'll drop my penny thoughts in to say Jon being Superman thematically applies more than it doesn't and plays on a lot of what his narrative's been building to. A random sidestep here at the end is very much like what played out in Season 8 of Game of Thrones where Jon's narrative was building to him facing the Night King only for Arya to do so at the end "because it wasn't what you were expecting." A surprise doesn't make for a good story in itself, nor does an upset, and if Jon wasn't going to be Superman after all the buildup and talk of legacy-- they'd be outright stating "this character has no reason to exist."

The notion that "Superman" is something like the title belt of the DCU is foolish because that turns it into a popularity contest. Whoever is the most vital, bestest hero gets to be Superman. Outright silly.

It's none of that. Superman is an identity named (usually) by Lois Lane to represent the person Clark Kent/Kal-El is. It's about his core values and belief that absolute power should help others absolutely. That's it. That's what the character himself puts in and is true of every interpretation not intended to be astray (Injustice). Everything else (hope, incorruptibility, etc) are expectations others put on the crest and Clark generally tries not to let any of them down because that's his character. As long as Jon (or anyone who wears the shield) does their best to help others with the gifts they're given, then they embody spirit of Superman and deserve the title (or any variation therein, like Supergirl, Superboy, etc). There's a reason John Henry Irons, STEEL, is the one person who is described as embodying what it meant to be Superman during Reign. He didn't call himself Superman. He didn't pretend to have the powers. He just used his resources to help others, even if it meant no personal risk. He just did the right thing. Jon has done so since he was a child. He's always been taking the values given to him by his mother and father and using them to help anyone who needed him. There's no way to slice this and say he doesn't deserve or qualify as the best candidate for the job unless you're being disingenuous in order to meet some other goal.

His path toward being Superman was set early into Rebirth and expedited when he aged up. If you're surprised or mad about it now, you simply have not been paying attention.

Do you have to like Jon as Superman? Of course not. I'm not in love with him taking over, but he has done everything possible in narrative to showcase he's the heir apparent to the title the same way it's evident to everyone that despite Damian having the "birthright" to the Bat he whines about all the time, Dick is the one who should be Batman if Bruce dies. Jace is a sidestep and something different, but frankly speaking, he's a random character made Batman and being explained retroactively in his digital series right now. By every metric I've seen, he did nothing to "deserve" being Batman so why should Jon to be Superman? I have no problem with a future where Jace is Batman. Complaining that it's wrong for Jon to be Superman makes no sense given any logical argument drawn from the work done with the character (in which his entire narrative is about being the next Superman) and especially so when the heirs apparent to Batman and Wonder Woman, adjacent to Superman, were characters created immediately for that reason and literally did nothing to "earn" it. They don't have to, and their stories following should prove to the reader if they are a good Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman. Jon, however, has been built to it. Unlike the other two, we've had nearly five years seeing this kid's crucible to become tomorrow's Man of Tomorrow.

Unlike Jace and Yara, DC actually put the work in with Jon to set him up. That's not automatically better, but it's baffling to consider a character established and building towards a point somehow doesn't "deserve" their arc as opposed to someone created to inherit that arc in medias res. It's just coming across as "I don't want him to be Superman so nyah nyah." Let's be better than this, please.

With respect to the individuals involved, I like John Timms. I think he has a fun, kinetic style that feels a bit like a modern Scott McDaniel but without some of the latter's excesses. Geometric shapes, high velocity-- it's there. This style can work for Jon who is a more kinetic, spontaneous character than his father traditionally is. Say what you will about Superman of Metropolis, the art was not the problem.

And now, Tom Taylor.

Let it be said that my criticisms of his work aside, Taylor seems the absolute gentleman and an all-around great dude. I understand entirely why anyone would want to work with him.

People who follow my posts (those poor souls) know I've been very critical of his work at DC in the past. I don't care for Injustice, DCeased or much else I've seen from him and the way he shills Harley and Bruce (not as a couple, that dubious honor is Sean Murphey's alone) is pretty annoying at best. I long felt his work was overhyped by people who took for granted he was given universes where he could kill anyone and thus was allowed to make big moments not afforded any other writers because their stories had to matter in continuity whereas he got carte blanche. I have often found his voices for characters questionable, his decisions frustrating-to-outright stupid (such as listing all the great minds in DC and then settling on Damian "because he's Batman" or Lex casually remarking Bruce is more intelligent when it's been long established Lex the world's smartest man and too arrogant to state otherwise to begin with), and his shilling characters he likes over others outright awful (Diana's awful treatment in Injustice/DCeased, Clark one-shotting her, Harley in both as well). For what it's worth, I didn't care for his work on New 52 Earth-2 either, but I didn't like that book to begin with (likely due to sour grapes regarding the JSA I loved disappearing and later how that book mangled Power Girl).

Then there's his Nightwing. Probably the best take thus far since the Dixon run. He and Redondo are killing it and I'm finally drinking some of the Taylor punch. I know he adores Superman (and Lois for that matter) and has been itching to write them forever. It kind of sucks that, like Yang did in New 52, when he finally gets his shot it requires that it's an evil Superman, one who dies in a zombie-esque infestation, or his son but never the mainline deal. I'm sure that bugs him a bit... But if we're getting Nightwing Tom Taylor for this book? I'm ready for it. I'm buying in either way to give this a shot, but I feel a lot more comfortable with the news after a couple issues of Nightwing.

Feel free to pick my thoughts apart, but I may be late to respond because this entire thread has been exhausting as has the general discourse on these boards of late so I've taken a step back for the time being.

[Nelliebly]

As soon as I saw this announced, I knew I should stay away from these boards for a few days because I just knew it'd be a hellscape. As fate would have it, I am a prophet. BOW TO ME!

In all seriousness, I'm going to weigh in and say that I didn't want Jon to be Superman in a present sense, or at least in the main line. I liked him better as the kid grappling with legacy but still growing. A lot has been said about other possible Supermen and the conversation has grown quite ugly, so I'll drop my penny thoughts in to say Jon being Superman thematically applies more than it doesn't and plays on a lot of what his narrative's been building to. A random sidestep here at the end is very much like what played out in Season 8 of Game of Thrones where Jon's narrative was building to him facing the Night King only for Arya to do so at the end "because it wasn't what you were expecting." A surprise doesn't make for a good story in itself, nor does an upset, and if Jon wasn't going to be Superman after all the buildup and talk of legacy-- they'd be outright stating "this character has no reason to exist."

The notion that "Superman" is something like the title belt of the DCU is foolish because that turns it into a popularity contest. Whoever is the most vital, bestest hero gets to be Superman. Outright silly.

It's none of that. Superman is an identity named (usually) by Lois Lane to represent the person Clark Kent/Kal-El is. It's about his core values and belief that absolute power should help others absolutely. That's it. That's what the character himself puts in and is true of every interpretation not intended to be astray (Injustice). Everything else (hope, incorruptibility, etc) are expectations others put on the crest and Clark generally tries not to let any of them down because that's his character. As long as Jon (or anyone who wears the shield) does their best to help others with the gifts they're given, then they embody spirit of Superman and deserve the title (or any variation therein, like Supergirl, Superboy, etc). There's a reason John Henry Irons, STEEL, is the one person who is described as embodying what it meant to be Superman during Reign. He didn't call himself Superman. He didn't pretend to have the powers. He just used his resources to help others, even if it meant no personal risk. He just did the right thing. Jon has done so since he was a child. He's always been taking the values given to him by his mother and father and using them to help anyone who needed him. There's no way to slice this and say he doesn't deserve or qualify as the best candidate for the job unless you're being disingenuous in order to meet some other goal.

His path toward being Superman was set early into Rebirth and expedited when he aged up. If you're surprised or mad about it now, you simply have not been paying attention.

Do you have to like Jon as Superman? Of course not. I'm not in love with him taking over, but he has done everything possible in narrative to showcase he's the heir apparent to the title the same way it's evident to everyone that despite Damian having the "birthright" to the Bat he whines about all the time, Dick is the one who should be Batman if Bruce dies. Jace is a sidestep and something different, but frankly speaking, he's a random character made Batman and being explained retroactively in his digital series right now. By every metric I've seen, he did nothing to "deserve" being Batman so why should Jon to be Superman? I have no problem with a future where Jace is Batman. Complaining that it's wrong for Jon to be Superman makes no sense given any logical argument drawn from the work done with the character (in which his entire narrative is about being the next Superman) and especially so when the heirs apparent to Batman and Wonder Woman, adjacent to Superman, were characters created immediately for that reason and literally did nothing to "earn" it. They don't have to, and their stories following should prove to the reader if they are a good Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman. Jon, however, has been built to it. Unlike the other two, we've had nearly five years seeing this kid's crucible to become tomorrow's Man of Tomorrow.

Unlike Jace and Yara, DC actually put the work in with Jon to set him up. That's not automatically better, but it's baffling to consider a character established and building towards a point somehow doesn't "deserve" their arc as opposed to someone created to inherit that arc in medias res. It's just coming across as "I don't want him to be Superman so nyah nyah." Let's be better than this, please.

With respect to the individuals involved, I like John Timms. I think he has a fun, kinetic style that feels a bit like a modern Scott McDaniel but without some of the latter's excesses. Geometric shapes, high velocity-- it's there. This style can work for Jon who is a more kinetic, spontaneous character than his father traditionally is. Say what you will about Superman of Metropolis, the art was not the problem.

And now, Tom Taylor.

Let it be said that my criticisms of his work aside, Taylor seems the absolute gentleman and an all-around great dude. I understand entirely why anyone would want to work with him.

People who follow my posts (those poor souls) know I've been very critical of his work at DC in the past. I don't care for Injustice, DCeased or much else I've seen from him and the way he shills Harley and Bruce (not as a couple, that dubious honor is Sean Murphey's alone) is pretty annoying at best. I long felt his work was overhyped by people who took for granted he was given universes where he could kill anyone and thus was allowed to make big moments not afforded any other writers because their stories had to matter in continuity whereas he got carte blanche. I have often found his voices for characters questionable, his decisions frustrating-to-outright stupid (such as listing all the great minds in DC and then settling on Damian "because he's Batman" or Lex casually remarking Bruce is stronger when it's been long established Lex the world's smartest man and too arrogant to state otherwise to begin with), and his shilling characters he likes over others outright awful (Diana's awful treatment in Injustice/DCeased, Clark one-shotting her, Harley in both as well). For what it's worth, I didn't care for his work on New 52 Earth-2 either, but I didn't like that book to begin with (likely due to sour grapes regarding the JSA I loved disappearing and later how that book mangled Power Girl).

Then there's his Nightwing. Probably the best take thus far since the Dixon run. He and Redondo are killing it and I'm finally drinking some of the Taylor punch. I know he adores Superman (and Lois for that matter) and has been itching to write them forever. It kind of sucks that, like Yang did in New 52, when he finally gets his shot it requires that it's an evil Superman, one who dies in a zombie-esque infestation, or his son but never the mainline deal. I'm sure that bugs him a bit... But if we're getting Nightwing Tom Taylor for this book? I'm ready for it. I'm buying in either way to give this a shot, but I feel a lot more comfortable with the news after a couple issues of Nightwing.

Feel free to pick my thoughts apart, but I may be late to respond because this entire thread has been exhausting as has the general discourse on these boards of late so I've taken a step back for the time being.

Wish I could Co-sign all of this. Thanks for being a fair voice of reason. (as usual)

[Nelliebly]

Some of you will use any excuse to keep Superman white.

This is not appropriate. There are BIPOC in this very thread who have shared their thoughts on this with a lot of nuance and this is dismissive of them.

Two, it is not an uncommon stance that Superman as a mantle is very much rooted in a person of great privilege living the example of how you don’t ::abuse:: that privilege but instead actually channel it into the greater good.

Cheryl Lynn Eaton, a very popular and well known comics personality on Twitter, has openly argued on several occasions about this exact thing regarding Clark Kent/Superman and race. Her thread on this is relatively easy to find and it’s been shared several times over on Twitter by a LOT of BIPOC. She has argued many times that the person she would like to see race bent in the next film franchise is LOIS and General Lane. She has compared Lane to a Colin Powell type figure. She has made a compelling argument that Superman himself depends on being a person of privilege in order to operate the way that he does and receive the public’s trust. She has argued, compellingly, that Black men are still subjected to far too much racism in this country to operate the way Superman ::has:: to to save people and that “passing” is inherent to how Superman is portrayed and received by the public.

All of this is extremely nuanced and reasonable minds can and will disagree because these are very personal and complex topics. And obviously reasonable minds can and do disagree on whether any of this was necessary with Jon right now in this moment.

But the accusation here that the people defending Jon’s right to be Superman “just want Superman to always be white” is unfair and inappropriate particularly given it’s dismissing ACTUAL BIPOC including Black WOMEN who have made arguments with a lot more nuance than that regarding the role privilege plays in these stories.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I would've just been cool with turning Action Comics into a Jon Kent solo. Make him the new Superboy and deal with how he readjust to Earth etc. Have him reconnect with Hamilton, fight the Time Luchadores etc.

[Quinlan58]

My biggest fear is that Jon is only going to be a very minor variation on Clark, considering his history as a character, the continuous sidelining of his relationship with his mother and how DC's vision for him as Superman in Future State ends up being "All Star Superman but atheist" in SM/WW, with SoM ending with him disowning his previous controversial decisions. In light of that, what would otherwise be a harmless reference in the cover ends up coming across as a red flag.

[Prime]

So all this situation with Jon pretty much boils down to "we missed a few steps".