Superman: son of Kal-El

[garazza]

what do you mean by safe?especially when that kinda nonesense is what's wrong with superman franchise in the first place.the character is stuck.

Just look at the kind of baggage you have to deal with in a canon, in-continuity story:

Infinite Frontier mentioned everything that happened from Jurgens to Tomasi to Bendis, but that doesn't mean any of it makes sense in continuity. There's no way Jon's history can make sense without massive retconning.

- Jon was conceived and born during the Convergence event, then his parents brought him to this Earth and lived in secret for about nine years. His Mom wrote books and his Dad worked as a farmer on two farms: one in California and one upstate of Metropolis. Then they discover their neighbors are aliens. (The event connected to Jon's first kiss, which we see in the montage.) This made sense when there were two Supermen, but not when there's only one. Jurgens tried to fit it all together by retconning that Jon was born right after they got married, then they went off to California to raise him. But this makes a hash of every Superman story published after 1993.

- Then there's the space adventure Jon had with Jor El, which resulted in him being marooned on Earth 3 for six years. It just flat out can't happen now, because the Death Metal event healed the changes Doctor Manhattan made to the timeline. Jor El doesn't survive the explosion of Krypton anymore, he's back to his original timeline and can't meet Jon. Spending six years marooned in a volcano on Earth 3 is the least of it, because there's always some version of Earth 3 around. But for Jon's history to make sense in a linear timeline they need to come up with another way to get him to Earth 3.

Another weird consequence of Death Metal is that the heroes can somehow remember "everything" that ever happened to them, but that doesn't mean those memories have to make sense, or that normal civilians will remember them the same way. I'd imagine that Jon's memories are quite a cacophony of divergent timelines at this point.

In a story like DCeased, you don't have to deal with any of that. You can make a story about Jon becoming Superman make as much or as little sense as possible and not destroy what your fellow writers and artists are doing because it's self-contained and stand-alone. You never have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes and offending the collaborative nature of the main universe.

[Korath]

Just look at the kind of baggage you have to deal with in a canon, in-continuity story:



In a story like DCeased, you don't have to deal with any of that. You can make a story about Jon becoming Superman make as much or as little sense as possible and not destroy what your fellow writers and artists are doing because it's self-contained and stand-alone. You never have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes and offending the collaborative nature of the main universe.

And you can just say that he is the son of Superman in main continuity and roll with that. We don't need to hobble him with the constant origins reboot. They are what they are, go on, go wild and go Man of the People with him like he was hinted to be in his own story in FS.

[garazza]

And you can just say that he is the son of Superman in main continuity and roll with that. We don't need to hobble him with the constant origins reboot. They are what they are, go on, go wild and go Man of the People with him like he was hinted to be in his own story in FS.

Exactly. It's baffling how single-minded DC has become when it comes to Jon's origin. People never questioned nor cared how it was he came to exist when he was kid. Superman Reborn felt like an obligatory story that accomplished what it needed with no frills or BS, people liked that and all was well.

It's why I say de-aging him literally isn't an issue and writers who say it is clearly weren't reading what everyone else was reading because no one's complaining except them.

[Korath]

Exactly. It's baffling how single-minded DC has become when it comes to Jon's origin. People never questioned nor cared how it was he came to exist when he was kid. Superman Reborn felt like an obligatory story that accomplished what it needed with no frills or BS, people liked that and all was well.

It's why I say de-aging him literally isn't an issue and writers who say it is clearly weren't reading what everyone else was reading because no one's complaining except them.

Well, the issue with de-aging him is that he'd become so bland we wouldn't be able to see him on page anymore. Seriously, it was one of the least interesting new characters ever created as a kid and a drag on a formerly well-established one (Damian), to the point that Super Sons helped derail him and make Damian a pathetic little whiny thing deserving no respect nor attention -in fact seeing Damian in the first issue of S:SoKL is the one thing which made me consider not buying it.

[garazza]

Well, the issue with de-aging him is that he'd become so bland we wouldn't be able to see him on page anymore. Seriously, it was one of the least interesting new characters ever created as a kid and a drag on a formerly well-established one (Damian), to the point that Super Sons helped derail him and make Damian a pathetic little whiny thing deserving no respect nor attention -in fact seeing Damian in the first issue of S:SoKL is the one thing which made me consider not buying it.

Like I said earlier, Jon is an investment that needed time to develop. Jon and Damian are natural narrative foils, but if they're not your thing, that's perfectly OK.

I'll say that in Challenge of the Super Sons, Damian is a little more silly and cartoon-ish than he previously has been, but I chalk that up to two things. One, Challenge felt more all-ages and child-friendly than the previous two books so that explains why the boys acted a little different. Two, Challenge, as well as Adventures, wasn't allowed to "matter," or affect the universe around it, and that means Jon and Damian can't influence each other that would deviate from whatever the current plans DC has for the characters in the same way that had in the original Super Sons, so Tomasi was pretty much handcuffed and had to rely on contrivances and a level of shallow writing usually seen from Tom Taylor.

[Korath]

Damian was plenty silly and dumb in the original Super-Sons series, far too much to my tastes, and in fact to the point that people who started to like the character there liked a fake version of Damian in my eyes. A fake version which led the backlash against the real Damian's action in TT which led to his current Robin series where... well, the less said about it the better.

Furthermore, having a child superheroing under Clark's cape always felt wrong. No way he'd allow it. He knows that being a super heroes is dangerous and it paints him in a bad light when he lets his ten years old son do it. As a teenager or a young adult, Jon makes a lot more sense and can develop a lot more, IMHO. Kid characters are extremely pften stuck in place after all.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't understand "it needs time" thing.No it doesn't.the plot points are just left open for others to expand on.Supersons can still happen and is happening alongside.They just need to have those stories impact the mainline.Jon's earth-bad/3 stories with ultraman can still happen.Jon's stories with legion can still be expanded.People are forgetting that clark used to superboy,part of the legion and Superman.

Furthermore, having a child superheroing under Clark's cape always felt wrong. No way he'd allow it. He knows that being a super heroes is dangerous and it paints him in a bad light when he lets his ten years old son do it. As a teenager or a young adult, Jon makes a lot more sense and can develop a lot more, IMHO. Kid characters are extremely pften stuck in place after all.

He didn't allow it unlike the superboy stories of silverage or even secret origins by geoff johns where pa and ma kent basically push clark to be a vigilante.Here is thing,everything wasn't in his control.You make compromises.Bad guys were coming after the kid from day 1.Heck! even justice league was after the kid.

[dietrich]

I think this is the view of a far larger contingent of readers than DC realizes. People like Clark far more than people like Jon.

Kid Jon I liked as much as Clark for a different reason. I prefer Clark as the main Superman not to mention that this new gen of the JL introduced by future state feels disconnected.

As a kid Jon added something fresh and interesting to the superman world but as a teen Superman I'm yet to see anything extraordinary/different.
He feels like Clark 2.0

The age up hasn't done much to enhance the stories aside from allowing Damian's character to assert itself again.

To a lot of fans Damian had become one half of a duo. So by distancing the pair in current continuity the age up at least had one positive outcome.

I enjoy Taylor's work and SuperJon was handled well in Dceased so I'm pleased he's the one writing him as Superman.

Super excited for Morrison's Authority [since Morrison is back writing again I wonder if I should get my hopes up for Arkham Asylum 2. Come on Morrison where's the DamiBat book?]

[Blue22]

Damian was never in any real danger of only being associated with Jon. He was already a popular character long before Jon and existed. And while Super Sons was going on he was still doing all the same things he did without Jon, in addition to being a part of the No Justice event and being the (unfit) leader of two different teams. He had no problem asserting himself in any other book that he was in. Hell he asserted himself just fine in Super Sons. Jon was the only one who was really in danger of only being known as part of a duo. So in that regard, giving them a little distance while they figured out what they could do with Jon was a good idea. Though I think a better idea would have just been to have him actually join the Titans after the Super Sons of Tomorrow arc. It definitely felt like a decision they were building up to and then changed their minds about at the last minute. That gives him more space to grow away from Clark and gives him more characters to interact with and work off of, other than Damian. It's just a shame that the idea that they ended up going with was....this.

[OopsIdiditagain]

I don't care about Jon staying an older teen if this book is still good. People saying older Jon is a Clark copy, how do you imagine Kid Jon growing up? There are a lot of changes in personalities from 10 to teenage years.

[manwhohaseverything]

Damian was never in any real danger of only being associated with Jon. He was already a popular character long before Jon and existed. And while Super Sons was going on he was still doing all the same things he did without Jon, in addition to being a part of the No Justice event and being the (unfit) leader of two different teams. He had no problem asserting himself in any other book that he was in. Hell he asserted himself just fine in Super Sons. Jon was the only one who was really in danger of only being known as part of a duo. So in that regard, giving them a little distance while they figured out what they could do with Jon was a good idea. Though I think a better idea would have just been to have him actually join the Titans after the Super Sons of Tomorrow arc. It definitely felt like a decision they were building up to and then changed their minds about at the last minute. That gives him more space to grow away from Clark and gives him more characters to interact with and work off of, other than Damian. It's just a shame that the idea that they ended up going with was....this.

I disagree.It's better he got rejected.Jon is the superboy.Superboy was never meant to be a sidekick of superman.Superman doesn't have one,accept for jimmy.It isn't a robin title.By extension a team that was a get together of sidekicks would be out of reach for superboy.I don't mean sidekick in a bad way either.It's just superboy title is different and it has pretty much stayed that way.Superboy is the youngerself of the superman.Putting conner in with titans was wrong as well.The kid should have evolved into his own superman and be his own man of action with his jeans,tshirt and all.But,that wasn't the case.The idea that jon would have been just been stuck with supersons is wrong as well.These guys always wanted jon to grow into the future,as it.There was a significant push for that.Supersons was a surprise for them.Otherwise,they would still be pushing for that.Instead,supersons never had editorial or higherups backing.

[Sacred Knight]

Wait really? Source?

That's not at all surprising. It was literally and figurately a number 1, and fit the allure of the gimmick more than Worlds of War did. Kal being on Warworld doesn't necessarily immediately draw the eye in that particular regard. And even then it all did pretty meh comparative to the rest of the two month event. In that same vein, his new title's #1 will surely sell more than Action in July. What happens after the hype is key. Its still my strong opinion that what they're going to find out is that the demand for a new Superman and Jon altogether will have been majorly overestimated.

[Yoda]

I mean, Clark's books were #1's too. And PKJ had the buzz of his having been named the new writer for both books and Janan on his book.

So if there is this silent majority of Jon stans who simply will refuse to purchase an aged up Jon book or a book where Clark's legacy is explored through is son and descendants, what is the explanation?

[manwhohaseverything]

House of el sold well as well.So there is some great world building going on.That's also pretty exciting.Calling this son of kal el isn't a coincidence.

[Sacred Knight]

I might have added it too late, but I don't think Kal on Warworld was necessarily the type of change-up that FS was built around to generate much hype. In a limited capacity and Future State being of the design it was, to me it makes sense the draw goes to the more different approaches. Am I reaching? In my experience not really. Its pretty much the Elseworlds effect. Vastly wild and out there tends to be more accepted when it doesn't necessarily "count" in general canon sensibilities. Or at least isn't replacing the familiar. Make these things regular directions though and the reception tends to be very different.

As far as an embargo on Jon in specific, I'm not really accounting for Jon purists, tbh. I'm more counting on the idea that the general Superman fanbase does not respond well to Superman losing a book, nor the idea that there's this general specter hanging around that Clark is close to the end of his Superman adventures. Its more about Clark than Jon. I think DC is overestimating his overall appeal over Clark, not just the idea that too many fans don't like him as an adult over a child. And I mean, I believe that to be true too but I'm not necessarily counting on any potential boycotts there amounting to much one way or another. That's not me trying to deny they have a voice, its just not the voice I think will speak loudest. To me its Clark fans first and foremost who will speak the most loudly over all this.

If I'm wrong on all this? Well to quote a classic scene, "Mooney, first bottle's on me, let me get my hat."