Comichron March 2021 estimated sales chart

[jwatson]

So if the sales are bigger than last year doesn't that stand to reason the top 100 comics made more money. And that is with Comichrons limited information. The business side of me is coming out. I just seriously do not get the mindest. Objectively speaking why would an era where you can sell 10 non brand books with a vast variety of characters and it makes those numbers on issue 20. I'm not even tihnking about this from a fan point i'm talking strictly from a business standpoint it makes no sense to think of this as "an era that has gone on too long" It's obvious it can sustain many more books, one shots, minis and if i'm marvel it doesn't hurt anybody to cull back on those 25 books that amounted to poor sales financially if i can do an Exodus mini in this new world and maybe out of 6 issues get a total of 100,000 which would be one month of those 25 other books combined or Marrow one shot and maybe get 50,000 sales which would have still amounted to pretty close to half off those 25 other book

[Grey]

So if the sales are bigger than last year doesn't that stand to reason the top 100 comics made more money. And that is with Comichrons limited information. The business side of me is coming out. I just seriously do not get the mindest. Objectively speaking why would an era where you can sell 10 non brand books with a vast variety of characters and it makes those numbers on issue 20. I'm not even tihnking about this from a fan point i'm talking strictly from a business standpoint it makes no sense to think of this as "an era that has gone on too long" It's obvious it can sustain many more books, one shots, minis and if i'm marvel it doesn't hurt anybody to cull back on those 25 books that amounted to poor sales financially if i can do an Exodus mini in this new world and maybe out of 6 issues get a total of 100,000 which would be one month of those 25 other books combined or Marrow one shot and maybe get 50,000 sales which would have still amounted to pretty close to half off those 25 other book

Yea, I don’t think one can deny that it makes more business sense to do this. There’s often a disconnect between what can make them the most money/most sustainable and what people enjoy. I wouldn’t blame a business for choosing more financial revenue sustainability. I also wouldn’t consume their product if I didn’t enjoy it. Both can exist without one faulting Marvel. It’s pretty much how I’ve felt for the last many years.

[cranger]

So if the sales are bigger than last year doesn't that stand to reason the top 100 comics made more money. And that is with Comichrons limited information. The business side of me is coming out. I just seriously do not get the mindest. Objectively speaking why would an era where you can sell 10 non brand books with a vast variety of characters and it makes those numbers on issue 20. I'm not even tihnking about this from a fan point i'm talking strictly from a business standpoint it makes no sense to think of this as "an era that has gone on too long" It's obvious it can sustain many more books, one shots, minis and if i'm marvel it doesn't hurt anybody to cull back on those 25 books that amounted to poor sales financially if i can do an Exodus mini in this new world and maybe out of 6 issues get a total of 100,000 which would be one month of those 25 other books combined or Marrow one shot and maybe get 50,000 sales which would have still amounted to pretty close to half off those 25 other book

I am not following you with brand and non brand terms, and I am not sure what 25 books you are talking about, but if it was the 2018 keep in mind a few of those are $1 reprints, the rest are typically minis nearing their end, and books that are attempting to sell to a sometimes underserved audience.

Also, your argument is based on putting books out that sell. While I do think a mini that sells well should be put out, that is not a fair argument. You can say that about anything, and of course it is true. So I am not sure why you are making that point, as in what are you trying to suggest selling 50,000 copies of a one-shot is comparable to them doing now? Considering that probably only X-Men is selling over 50,000. Fallen Angels ended at issue 6. Cable is ending at issue 12. X-Factor is probably done. Money is on X-Corps and CotA maybe getting two trades worth at best, and probably Way of X as well.

While some people don't care, there are people who don't like books they are reading to get canceled and it does have a negative affect on readers.

Finally, your 6 issues of Exodus are apparently averaging less than 16,000 copies, and if it those sales are frontloaded, that means most of that run is selling outside of the Top 100, making it one of the "25 other books".

[Rang10]

So if the sales are bigger than last year doesn't that stand to reason the top 100 comics made more money. And that is with Comichrons limited information. The business side of me is coming out. I just seriously do not get the mindest. Objectively speaking why would an era where you can sell 10 non brand books with a vast variety of characters and it makes those numbers on issue 20. I'm not even tihnking about this from a fan point i'm talking strictly from a business standpoint it makes no sense to think of this as "an era that has gone on too long" It's obvious it can sustain many more books, one shots, minis and if i'm marvel it doesn't hurt anybody to cull back on those 25 books that amounted to poor sales financially if i can do an Exodus mini in this new world and maybe out of 6 issues get a total of 100,000 which would be one month of those 25 other books combined or Marrow one shot and maybe get 50,000 sales which would have still amounted to pretty close to half off those 25 other book

Bigger orders doesn't mean all books sold more. And bzrker really got a lot of orders.

These numbers doesn't look healthy enought to suport lots of new books. Specially that they would had to hire more editors, they already have 4. The investment isnt worth getting more books with lowest sales

[jwatson]

I am not following you with brand and non brand terms, and I am not sure what 25 books you are talking about, but if it was the 2018 keep in mind a few of those are $1 reprints, the rest are typically minis nearing their end, and books that are attempting to sell to a sometimes underserved audience.

Also, your argument is based on putting books out that sell. While I do think a mini that sells well should be put out, that is not a fair argument. You can say that about anything, and of course it is true. So I am not sure why you are making that point, as in what are you trying to suggest selling 50,000 copies of a one-shot is comparable to them doing now? Considering that probably only X-Men is selling over 50,000. Fallen Angels ended at issue 6. Cable is ending at issue 12. X-Factor is probably done. Money is on X-Corps and CotA maybe getting two trades worth at best, and probably Way of X as well. SWORD is selling less than GotG which is not a top seller by any means, so we can only hope Marvel let's Ewing go for as long as he wants but that will be more based on how much Marvel wants a cosmic line up.

While some people don't care, there are people who don't like books they are reading to get canceled and it does have a negative affect on readers.

Finally, your 6 issues of Exodus are apparently averaging less than 16,000 copies, and if it those sales are frontloaded, that means most of that run is selling outside of the Top 100, making it one of the "25 other books".

Basically, and i could be wrong, it makes absolutely no sense to me that the hickman era is considered a failure from a business point when he has been able to maintain the numbers he has with his team over the course of 2 years without a single traditional x-book. It also makes no sense to me that marvel would throw away what My hero academia has and what many companies have been clamoring to build a place in their world with an untold amount of character with super powers that doesn't necessarily directly affect street level stories but can bigger ones. I like to think about the variables and i was getting into the logic of those who are using this information as some kind of barometer for anything.

And if your paying 25 less artist, i'm going from the 2014 numbers as i sorted by publisher and was looking at those beneath 100. taking out reprints each new issue which may be less than 25 still sold at a level where more money could have potentially been saved by not having a writer, inker, colorist, print costs etc.

[jwatson]

Bigger orders doesn't mean all books sold more. And bzrker really got a lot of orders.

These numbers doesn't look healthy enought to suport lots of new books. Specially that they would had to hire more editors, they already have 4. The investment isnt worth getting more books with lowest sales

Fewer orders also doesn't mean less interest when that is at the whim of shop owners which in my experience have generally been fanboys.

[Rang10]

Fewer orders also doesn't mean less interest when that is at the whim of shop owners which in my experience have generally been fanboys.

The ones I talk on twitter are fanboys, but order according to demand. no one want to lose customers to other CBS or to services like Amazon/bookstore

[FFJamie94]

To be fair, I think they more a want a book reshuffle and for certain characters to move on. Some fans (including me) have been very vocal about not liking Excalibur's focus or direction, with more than half of the cast feeling like window dressings. Tini seems to struggle balancing character focus.

I'm glad Rogue's moved onto to X-Men, if at least temporarily, because her being on Excalibur for two years was not a fun reading experience as fan. while duggan has struggled with this same issue in marauders, he's proven that he's able to write rogue before in UA

That's fair, I'll honestly be happy if she's given a Psylocke book. I feel that's where her strengths would be

[cranger]

Basically, and i could be wrong, it makes absolutely no sense to me that the hickman era is considered a failure from a business point when he has been able to maintain the numbers he has with his team over the course of 2 years without a single traditional x-book. It also makes no sense to me that marvel would throw away what My hero academia has and what many companies have been clamoring to build a place in their world with an untold amount of character with super powers that doesn't necessarily directly affect street level stories but can bigger ones. I like to think about the variables and i was getting into the logic of those who are using this information as some kind of barometer for anything.

And if your paying 25 less artist, i'm going from the 2014 numbers as i sorted by publisher and was looking at those beneath 100. taking out reprints each new issue which may be less than 25 still sold at a level where more money could have potentially been saved by not having a writer, inker, colorist, print costs etc.

I am not saying his run is a failure, I am saying it is not doing anything that had not been done before. Some people might have thought Hickman's era was going to put the X Line at the top, that it would be the number one franchise. It is not, it only handles as many books as it does due to past successes of other titles that built up the characters that are being used, and if you recognize that all those books that are not X books are mostly in one of two groups: Spider-Man and Avengers, those other 'brands' are selling better and they already have no problem generating super powered characters that face mostly big threats.

But you will go no argument from me about cutting out most of the books that don't sell above a certain number. For example, let's pretend Cable was selling under the cancellation mark, why are they paying Duggan and Noto for this, obviously they should be putting them on something else. So, yeah, cancel it. The only other ongoings below Cable are Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Champions. They insist of making Champions happen, Captain Marvel/Black Panther can't be canceled it would break the internet, and they are probably too stubborn to just mothball Guardians and the cosmic line (but all three of those are probably kept on life support for marketing and MCU purposes).

[jwatson]

I am not saying his run is a failure, I am saying it is not doing anything that had not been done before. Some people might have thought Hickman's era was going to put the X Line at the top, that it would be the number one franchise. It is not, it only handles as many books as it does due to past successes of other titles that built up the characters that are being used, and if you recognize that all those books that are not X books are mostly in one of two groups: Spider-Man and Avengers, those other 'brands' are selling better and they already have no problem generating super powered characters that face mostly big threats.

But you will go no argument from me about cutting out most of the books that don't sell above a certain number. For example, let's pretend Cable was selling under the cancellation mark, why are they paying Duggan and Noto for this, obviously they should be putting them on something else. So, yeah, cancel it. The only other ongoings below Cable are Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Champions. They insist of making Champions happen, Captain Marvel/Black Panther can't be canceled it would break the internet, and they are probably too stubborn to just mothball Guardians and the cosmic line (but all three of those are probably kept on life support for marketing and MCU purposes).

But see that's where i disagree, i was getting into the head of the other side. From a business standpoint i'm thinking of merchandising and movies and everything else under the sun. I'm also thinking about keeping a certain audience for when i do do something bigger that may be in pipeline. So 6 books featuring peter parker is not going to give me the same intellectual value as 6 books featuring different characters getting similar or close to numbers. Sometimes taking a loss on a certain book or a write off is the best thing you can do long term. But i went to school for business so im not just looking at it from this isn't selling or this number isn't that. Marvel is not just a comic company and disney pretty much owns the world.

[Rang10]

I am not saying his run is a failure, I am saying it is not doing anything that had not been done before. Some people might have thought Hickman's era was going to put the X Line at the top, that it would be the number one franchise. It is not, it only handles as many books as it does due to past successes of other titles that built up the characters that are being used, and if you recognize that all those books that are not X books are mostly in one of two groups: Spider-Man and Avengers, those other 'brands' are selling better and they already have no problem generating super powered characters that face mostly big threats.

But you will go no argument from me about cutting out most of the books that don't sell above a certain number. For example, let's pretend Cable was selling under the cancellation mark, why are they paying Duggan and Noto for this, obviously they should be putting them on something else. So, yeah, cancel it. The only other ongoings below Cable are Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Champions. They insist of making Champions happen, Captain Marvel/Black Panther can't be canceled it would break the internet, and they are probably too stubborn to just mothball Guardians and the cosmic line (but all three of those are probably kept on life support for marketing and MCU purposes).

That is why X-men and the other offices groups don't keep releasing a lot of books. Sales will fall down after x number of issues and the cost of producing too much books.

[cranger]

But see that's where i disagree, i was getting into the head of the other side. From a business standpoint i'm thinking of merchandising and movies and everything else under the sun. I'm also thinking about keeping a certain audience for when i do do something bigger that may be in pipeline. So 6 books featuring peter parker is not going to give me the same intellectual value as 6 books featuring different characters getting similar or close to numbers. Sometimes taking a loss on a certain book or a write off is the best thing you can do long term. But i went to school for business so im not just looking at it from this isn't selling or this number isn't that. Marvel is not just a comic company and disney pretty much owns the world.

Not sure what the bolded point is. If they put out 6 books with Peter Parker it is because he sells, because Spider-Man is the #1 (super hero) merchandising license in the world.

I do not know what you are disagreeing with. You said they could be saving money. Yes. I said those books that are losing money are serving another purpose. You just said the same thing.

So, the only thing you might be disagreeing with is people who thought that Hickman would make the X-Men a top 10 seller?

[pkingdom]

But see that's where i disagree, i was getting into the head of the other side. From a business standpoint i'm thinking of merchandising and movies and everything else under the sun. I'm also thinking about keeping a certain audience for when i do do something bigger that may be in pipeline. So 6 books featuring peter parker is not going to give me the same intellectual value as 6 books featuring different characters getting similar or close to numbers. Sometimes taking a loss on a certain book or a write off is the best thing you can do long term. But i went to school for business so im not just looking at it from this isn't selling or this number isn't that. Marvel is not just a comic company and disney pretty much owns the world.

The movie side is vastly different from the comic side. And they absolutely do not need the X-men to create a world filled with superpowered people to use in the movies. Frankly, 6 books about Peter Parker sell comic books. There are 6 books about him because the market sustains and asks for 6 books. If anything you're making a good argument for why they're pushing Champions so hard despite its numbers being decent at best.

Just to summerize what's already been said: Hard to get too much out of the numbers because we don't know enough specifics. But what we can tell is that the numbers are largely just OK, not revolutionary. They're about the same as previous eras despite all the marketing and hype, and most of these books likely won't last beyond 12 issues, and some might not make it past 6. But its subject to change

[jwatson]

I do not know what you are disagreeing with. You said they could be saving money. Yes. I said those books that are losing money are serving another purpose. You just said the same thing.

So, the only thing you might be disagreeing with is people who thought that Hickman would make the X-Men a top 10 seller?

Not the top ten thing i don't really care about. In terms of cancelling a book simply because they are beneath the 100 i personally wouldn't do. Not if they were independent intellectual properties that i am potentially just trying to create enough story for for future projects etc (the cancel anything beneath 100 was me getting in the mindset of those who simply are thinking in terms of success or failure on a past system where marvel had less monetary value in the property. So what i'm saying is hickman in his era has potentially created more wealth than if the top 10 were spiderman with sony having half it's rights. At this point they can develope Excalibur, Marauders, Hellions, and many of the other books that now have a concrete shared universe. I highly doubt anyone is worrying about simply the top 10.

[pkingdom]

Not the top ten thing i don't really care about. In terms of cancelling a book simply because they are beneath the 100 i personally wouldn't do. Not if they were independent intellectual properties that i am potentially just trying to create enough story for for future projects etc (the cancel anything beneath 100 was me getting in the mindset of those who simply are thinking in terms of success or failure on a past system where marvel had less monetary value in the property. So what i'm saying is hickman in his era has potentially created more wealth than if the top 10 were spiderman with sony having half it's rights. At this point they can develope Excalibur, Marauders, Hellions, and many of the other books that now have a concrete shared universe. I highly doubt anyone is worrying about simply the top 10.

That would be an argument if there wasn't already 50+ years of content and stories to mine for intellectual property. If they want to tell stories about Kitty Pride, Cyclops, Wolverine, etc. they don't need to look at the current stuff when there's years and years of more iconic content to get through first. Again, you're making a very good argument for why they're keeping Champions around; they are younger characters who are decently popular that don't have a lot of stories to them yet, and some of them are starting to show up in movies and TV. But that does not apply to the new stuff.