Ben Turner: The Bronze Tiger Appreciation 2021

[The Cool Thatguy]

Until he looses an arm fighting deathstroke

If a writer is going to have Deathstroke chop off Ben's arm, you think powers are gonna stop him?

[J. D. Guy]

eeeeehhh, no disrespect but I always find this reasoning kinda....weak. I mean, fundamentally, I agree that martial artist characters should be centered around portraying their ability to do martial arts but; how exactly does powers take away from martial arts characters more than the fact that every non-powered character also has nebulous martial arts training or just instinctually knows how to fight on the level of martial artists because they grew up in a rough area or something equally lazy? because that happens far more often and people be letting that rock even though it takes away from martial arts characters far more than something like the iron fist or task master's adapting ability or Signal's photokinetic sight or Cassandra Cain's ability to read body language to a superhuman degree, etc. it's superhero fiction, superpowers are intrinsic to the medium, it's always about how they are applied.

Yeah. It can sometimes come off as trying to "gatekeep" who gets the specialness of having or obtaining superpowers, no matter how minor, measured, or thematically applicable they may be. And it can get kind of frustrating. Especially in a case like Bronze Tiger.

[DrNewGod]

I like his skillset to be along the lines if a Richard Dragon or a Shang-Chi. he's so throughly trained and highly proficient that he's basically superhuman/boardline supernatural. I would let something like Qigong or Gidigbo slide, martial arts forms that have supernatural elements, so long as they try to not go overboard with it and it adds a dynamic effect to his martial arts; a touchless ki strike here, an Aki invocation there, nothing too crazy...

Yeah. It can sometimes come off as trying to "gatekeep" who gets the specialness of having or obtaining superpowers, no matter how minor, measured, or thematically applicable they may be. And it can get kind of frustrating. Especially in a case like Bronze Tiger.

Keeping skilled heroes "only skilled" can works, but it takes something both of The Big Two seem to have forgotten how to do: establish lanes and keep characters in them. Batman v. Darkseid should be a very short scene that ends in Bat-vaporization (if Darkseid doesn't find the whole thing beneath him and just delegate Kalibak to break Batman into kindling). Bronze Tiger can be an uber-badass in his lane, but avoid having him take on characters like Mammoth.

Setting up and maintaining those kinds of spheres requires editorial discipline that DC (and Marvel) hasn't shown in years.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Keeping skilled heroes "only skilled" can works, but it takes something both of The Big Two seem to have forgotten how to do: establish lanes and keep characters in them. Batman v. Darkseid should be a very short scene that ends in Bat-vaporization (if Darkseid doesn't find the whole thing beneath him and just delegate Kalibak to break Batman into kindling). Bronze Tiger can be an uber-badass in his lane, but avoid having him take on characters like Mammoth.

Setting up and maintaining those kinds of spheres requires editorial discipline that DC (and Marvel) hasn't shown in years.

Exactly.

Deadshot was an utter bad ass in Suicide Squad, but he still respected Tiger, who could whup his ass and could be controlled by him.

These days, Floyd is more popular, so he'd beat Ben with a snarky comment and no effort.

[Agent Z]

Exactly.

Deadshot was an utter bad ass in Suicide Squad, but he still respected Tiger, who could whup his ass and could be controlled by him.

These days, Floyd is more popular, so he'd beat Ben with a snarky comment and no effort.

This type of writing also means that characters less popular than Deadshot don't have the opportunity to gain new fans because audiences only see them as easily dispatched weaklings.

For me, I can take or leave Ben having powers. I think either option works for him. I have been thinking of which human DC characters would be best suited to have superpowers at times but I've really only thought of a few. Namely, Cheshire, Delilah Tyler and Will Harper.

[Frontier]

I'm not against martial artists with powers but I think it has to fit the character.

I think Ben works better as a natural human with peak physical training and abilities.

[HandofPrometheus]

[The Cool Thatguy]

This type of writing also means that characters less popular than Deadshot don't have the opportunity to gain new fans because audiences only see them as easily dispatched weaklings.

For me, I can take or leave Ben having powers. I think either option works for him. I have been thinking of which human DC characters would be best suited to have superpowers at times but I've really only thought of a few. Namely, Cheshire, Delilah Tyler and Will Harper.

Yeah, pretty much.

"Man, why can't we get more popular characters?"

"Because you implicitly tell readers not to care when you have more popular characters dismiss the less popular characters as B-listers? You both pull the reader out of the story and undermine the character. Why should a reader care about a character, respect them, when the story doesn't?"

"No, it's the readers who are wrong!"

Suicide Squad would have sucked if it were launched today. Waller would be a hundred times worse, and would be absolved with a few snarky comments.

[John Venus]

Do you guys like Ben as a normal fighter or should his display powers via supernatural martial arts?

Normal.

100% pure skill and dedication.

[DrNewGod]

This type of writing also means that characters less popular than Deadshot don't have the opportunity to gain new fans because audiences only see them as easily dispatched weaklings...

Not at all. There are plenty of other characters you can pit a hero like BT against and look cool. Just don't insist on throwing somebody like Solomon Grundy at him.

[John Venus]

Although that *would* be an interesting fight.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Ben held his own in Suicide Squad, but it's not like the villains rolled over for him.

He knocked down the the Russian superman Gort, but needed Vixen to close the deal, after all.

[HandofPrometheus]

Do you guys prefer Ben in a costume or regular clothes with a few touch ups? We talked about the mask but what about everything else?

I would prefer Ben to be in a costume like his old one but a little more modern. The jacket look from the new 52 and Arrow is alright for when he's out on the streets but he needs something that will make him stand out.

[Frontier]

Do you guys prefer Ben in a costume or regular clothes with a few touch ups? We talked about the mask but what about everything else?

I would prefer Ben to be in a costume like his old one but a little more modern. The jacket look from the new 52 and Arrow is alright for when he's out on the streets but he needs something that will make him stand out.

Costume. Like his Hell to Pay look.

He can like wear a jacket over his costume, which I think was a Rebirth thing.

[John Venus]

Do you guys prefer Ben in a costume or regular clothes with a few touch ups? We talked about the mask but what about everything else?

I would prefer Ben to be in a costume like his old one but a little more modern. The jacket look from the new 52 and Arrow is alright for when he's out on the streets but he needs something that will make him stand out.

Basically this:

The costume is good for flashbacks and maybe special occasions but his regular every day ass kicking look should be something like the pic above. Orange and yellow colour scheme is mandatory as are the tiger stripes on his face. The tiger mask when he gets serious. He should lose the Wolverine claws, if he has to have claws I rather it be gloves with claw points like Catwoman but I prefer Ben as pure hand-to-hand martial artist.