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  1. #1
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Default I Will Forever Love Disney For Buying Marvel

    I was going to put this as a reply in the MCU Thread but I figured this would make a great discussion jump off point.

    This past week has shown that the best thing to happen to Marvel is Disney buying them.

    We have an Asian led multi-million dollar blockbuster coming and we have a superhero movie that seriously looks at racism in America.

    I truly believe no other company would take that risk.

    Sure we had Blade, but Blade walked so the MCU can run.

    And sure Disney has filed down the edges of some of its properties and did try to smother the X-Men to death because of licensing issues [ugh]; but to me that's water under the bridge especially with the strides that representation is being made.

    I mean we have 3 huge superhero leads (sorry Wong & Rhoady [next time baby]) that are people of color: Black Panther (T'Challa and whoever takes the mantle), Shang-Chi, and Sam (as Falcon or Cap).

    Now, of course it did take nearly a decade, and we still don't have a lot of female representation; we do however currently have Captain Marvel and we will soon have Black Widow (but she's dead) and we have the Dora Milaje but we do not have (I think) LGBT representation and very little women of color representation.

    Some may disagree but, we as comic fans should be so happy that future generations will have bonkers ass movies that we as children could never even imagine a la: Eternals, GoTG, Shang-Chi, and Doc Strange.

    We will also never have to worry about Marvel going away, there was a time that these beloved characters would have disappeared into the ether.

    So I thank Disney bringing my heroes to the big and small screens and now I can see the joy in other's faces as they discover the same myths I did in the funny books.
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 04-24-2021 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    This past week has shown that the best to happen to Marvel is Disney buying them.
    Thor is it though meme.jpg

    Remember Marvel is not a sentient being or entity. It's a corporation run by people, none of whom have anything to do with writing the stories or creating the characters.

    The best thing that can happen to the characters is fall into public domain.

    Disney buying Marvel is the best thing that happened to Stan Lee and the corporate inheritors in terms of having serious power to prevent Jack Kirby's estate and others from getting access to their creations back. On that level yes.

    On a deeper level, it's the biggest roadblock halting the true liberation.

    We have an Asian led multi-million dollar blockbuster coming and we have a superhero movie that seriously looks at racism in America.

    I truly believe no other company would take that risk.
    There's a lot to unpack in several of these sentences -- namely the assumption that dealing with racism in a superhero movie counts for more than doing it in an actual non-superhero movie, and there have been several movies that looked at racism far more seriously and consequentially than anything in the MCU (for instance Ryan Coogler's own Fruitvale Station) -- or that having an Asian led multi-million dollar blockbuster counts for more than say, an actual Asian film winning Best Picture at the Oscars, the South Korean Parasite which won in 2020. As for "no other company would take that risk", I think if you look carefully you will find at various times many occasions across history where such risks were taken. Like Omar Sharif, a major Egyptian actor of Arab descent was made into a worldwide movie star by David Lean starring in blockbusters like Doctor Zhivago where he got to romance Western actresses like Julie Christie. And those risks happened when it was harder and when it counted, and not when it was well past the due date.

    Likewise, Denzel Washington and Will Smith were globally renowned and beloved movie stars who were bonafide audience draws and got top billing over white performers and played compelling male leads.

    Sure we had Blade, but Blade walked so the MCU can run.
    There's no direct line between Blade and the MCU. Nor X-Men, nor Spider-Man. The MCU happened because David Maisel, a financial guy at Marvel crunched the numbers and had a "Eureka" moment and he came up with an actionable plan to make it work.

    I mean we have 3 huge superhero leads (sorry Wong & Rhoady [next time baby]) that are people of color: Black Panther (T'challa and whoever takes the mantle), Shang-Chi, and Sam (as Falcon or Cap).
    It's a fact that this happened after severe resistance. Ike Perlmutter, Marvel's boss and the one that greenlit the MCU after listening to David Maisel's proposal (Kevin Feige wasn't even a scintilla near the decision-making for this move), was against greenlighting Captain Marvel and Black Panther for most of the 2010s. Kevin Feige, to his credit, pushed for it but he had to prove he could by making a bunch of whitebread conventional films before.

    We will also never have to worry about Marvel going away, there was a time that these beloved characters would have disappeared into the ether.
    That can still happen, you know. Remember the source for these characters are the 616 comics, and comics as a medium isn't guaranteed immortality. Nor by the way is cinema nor streaming and so on.

  3. #3
    Brandy and Coke DT Winslow's Avatar
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    Wow, way to shit all over someoneís happiness and enthusiasm.

    Iím gonna call you when I need to clear out my next party.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I still wish the cartoons were better.

  5. #5
    Brandy and Coke DT Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I still wish the cartoons were better.
    My kids love em, so I canít complain on that. I love it when my son comes up to me and tells me stories about different versions of the characters. Itís so cute.

  6. #6
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Thor is it though meme.jpg

    Remember Marvel is not a sentient being or entity. It's a corporation run by people, none of whom have anything to do with writing the stories or creating the characters.

    The best thing that can happen to the characters is fall into public domain.

    Disney buying Marvel is the best thing that happened to Stan Lee and the corporate inheritors in terms of having serious power to prevent Jack Kirby's estate and others from getting access to their creations back. On that level yes.

    On a deeper level, it's the biggest roadblock halting the true liberation.



    There's a lot to unpack in several of these sentences -- namely the assumption that dealing with racism in a superhero movie counts for more than doing it in an actual non-superhero movie, and there have been several movies that looked at racism far more seriously and consequentially than anything in the MCU (for instance Ryan Coogler's own Fruitvale Station) -- or that having an Asian led multi-million dollar blockbuster counts for more than say, an actual Asian film winning Best Picture at the Oscars, the South Korean Parasite which won in 2020. As for "no other company would take that risk", I think if you look carefully you will find at various times many occasions across history where such risks were taken. Like Omar Sharif, a major Egyptian actor of Arab descent was made into a worldwide movie star by David Lean starring in blockbusters like Doctor Zhivago where he got to romance Western actresses like Julie Christie. And those risks happened when it was harder and when it counted, and not when it was well past the due date.

    Likewise, Denzel Washington and Will Smith were globally renowned and beloved movie stars who were bonafide audience draws and got top billing over white performers and played compelling male leads.



    There's no direct line between Blade and the MCU. Nor X-Men, nor Spider-Man. The MCU happened because David Maisel, a financial guy at Marvel crunched the numbers and had a "Eureka" moment and he came up with an actionable plan to make it work.



    It's a fact that this happened after severe resistance. Ike Perlmutter, Marvel's boss and the one that greenlit the MCU after listening to David Maisel's proposal (Kevin Feige wasn't even a scintilla near the decision-making for this move), was against greenlighting Captain Marvel and Black Panther for most of the 2010s. Kevin Feige, to his credit, pushed for it but he had to prove he could by making a bunch of whitebread conventional films before.



    That can still happen, you know. Remember the source for these characters are the 616 comics, and comics as a medium isn't guaranteed immortality. Nor by the way is cinema nor streaming and so on.

    All of what you are saying is true, but I think you're misunderstanding me but next time I'll be clearer I should have written at the top in big bolded letters: "in the context of superhero films"

    because a kid of color is not watching Doctor Zhivago
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 04-24-2021 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #7
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT Winslow View Post
    Wow, way to shit all over someone’s happiness and enthusiasm.

    I’m gonna call you when I need to clear out my next party.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I still wish the cartoons were better.
    Me too, that is one of biggest misses with Disney and video games

  8. #8
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Well, to use an old cliche, at the end of the day the MCU is in much better hands with Disney/Marvel than with Fox. Or does anyone have an insane desire to watch the 3 Fox attempts at the Fantastic Four? To give them credit they did do justice to the X-Men except for Storm, who for some reason never really clicked.

    As to the cartoons, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was good but it got cancelled for an inferior product. And the Superhero Squad is a guilty pleasure for me. Hero Up!

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I still wish the cartoons were better.
    I wish they would remaster and re-release the 1966 Marvel Animation and 1967 Spider-Man. Also buy back the 1967 Fantastic Four that I believe WB owns the rights to.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member Eto's Avatar
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    Personally I don't care about the lack of LGBT (no I don't hate it, I just don't care), but I'm glad for people who'll get to see them.
    Agree regarding the rest though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded Porcupine View Post
    I wish they would remaster and re-release the 1966 Marvel Animation and 1967 Spider-Man. Also buy back the 1967 Fantastic Four that I believe WB owns the rights to.
    There was also a version of the Fantastic Four done by French animators IIRC that was pretty good, storywise. And that's because Kyle and Yost were the developers. One consolation is that Disney Plus has quite a few of those cartoons if you have have subscription.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded Porcupine View Post
    I wish they would remaster and re-release the 1966 Marvel Animation and 1967 Spider-Man. Also buy back the 1967 Fantastic Four that I believe WB owns the rights to.
    OMG! Totally agree! I don't care how limited the animation is, I just want to watch the 1966 Marvel animated series!



    Last edited by K7P5V; 04-24-2021 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  13. #13

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    For the OP:

    It was semi-inevitable.

    I wrote a blog essay 12 years ago about this (!!)
    http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.c...tptinyurl.html

    Live action- Starting from the 1980s forward, several Marvel comics franchises have been licensed to other film studios for development. Initially it was to little avail, as most projects announced languished in ‘development hell’ until the first Blade film hit theaters in 1998. 20th Century Fox became the most prolific film partner for Marvel, so far releasing four X-Men films (including 2009’s X-Men Origins: Wolverine), Daredevil, Elektra, and two Fantastic Four films. Paramount Films currently has first-refusal for distributing Marvel Films movies (Universal was tapped for releasing 2008’s The Incredible Hulk). Sony/Columbia has released a trilogy of Spider-Man films since 2002; a 4th, 5th 6th film are in varying stages of development.

    Marvel’s film properties are lucrative endeavors. So—does Disney now own the Marvel Films company by default? If so, what does this mean for live-action films in development? What, if anything, does this mean for Marvel’s plans to open their own brick-and-mortar studio to film various segments for their movies? Will Paramount be out of the picture as a distributor? What will this mean for currently licensed properties at other studios? Will Disney look for those options to be ended as soon as possible? Motions to end these licenses prematurely may be met with lawsuits. A contentious lawsuit over release rights to DC Comics' Watchmen film involved Warner Bros. and Fox and was finally settled shortly before the film came out. Marvel’s flagship character Spider-Man is currently locked into a production deal with Sony for both live-action and animation projects.

    Hopefully parties at Disney will treat the Marvel properties with their due respect, and genuinely push for new developments with them in live-action, including television shows. Fans have long clamored online for a Marvel analog to the Smallville series which is based on DC’s Superman comics.

    Animation development- Since 2006, Marvel Films has had a partnership with Lions Gate Entertainment for direct-to-video animated films based on their characters. Releases so far have included Ultimate Avengers 1 & 2, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Avengers Next, and Hulk Versus. Marvel has had several animated TV series released to varying episode-counts since 2000, including X-Men Evolution, Spider-Man: The New Adventures, Fantastic Four, Iron Man: Armored Adventures, Wolverine and the X-Men, and Spectacular Spider-Man. Series currently in the works include Marvel Super-Hero Squad, Mighty Avengers and Thor.

    Hopefully Disney will assist in the development of forthcoming animated TV and film projects, including the future direct-to-video films as well as cartoon TV series. Disney has several broadcast outlets on which to air shows and films, including major network ABC. Some of the ‘kiddie’ characters developed by Marvel from the 1980s included Spider-Ham, the X-Babies, Royal Roy, Top Dog and Planet Terry. During the 1940s and 50s, Marvel—then called Timely, later Atlas—published a series of ‘funny animal’ titles as analogs to the Warner Bros. and Disney stables of characters, many of whom had their own comics series for rival publishers at the time. Time will tell whether any of those characters will see attempted revivals in some form.

    Several superhero properties exist at Marvel that—as yet—have yet to be featured (beyond the cameo level) in animated form in a series or special: Some of them include Power Man & Iron Fist, Cloak & Dagger, Daredevil, the Defenders, New Mutants, Power Pack, and more. The high-end animation allowed by the Disney-owned Pixar Corporation (Toy Story, Cars, Wall-E) will likely have some fans in high anticipation. There are also Japanese-anime' adaptations already forthcoming based on Wolverine, Iron Man, the X-Men, and Blade, promising to re-interpret the characters with a cultural lean towards the sci-fi settings of Japan's animated shows.
    As much as I'm mindful of the historical individual writer/artist copyright issues over the decades, I hope they get better: more creatives getting more credit, royalties, settlements, etc.

    As a fan, I'm glad that the company is finally stable, compared to the era of dysfunction and bankruptcy. I'm glad the character rights were not simply auctioned off to highest bidders and thus possibly farmed out to totally random and ultra-separate publishing companies. (Spider-Man at Boom, FF at Image, Avengers at Dark Horse, etc.)

    I know I don't control any of the corporate intrigue. But hey. Long-term, it was a boon for Disney to gradually incorporate these characters into multimedia platforms: films, television, live action, animation, video games, etc. And it seems that the executives in charge are actually enthusiastic about developing the characters, compared to the era of 70s, 80s, 90s, when comics shows and films were still ultra-rare, and creatively looked down upon. Not to mention the fact that Marvel just couldn't get anything substantive done for decades when it comes to film projects.

    Disney needs to get more aggressive about finally getting the full rights back to Sub-Mariner and any other characters that were licensed years (decades) ago to TV or film deals and nothing happened.

  14. #14
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    OMG! Totally agree! I don't care how limited the animation is, I just want to watch the 1966 Marvel animated series!
    and it was one of the few times the Sub Mariner got his own cartoon!

  15. #15
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    For the OP:

    It was semi-inevitable.

    I wrote a blog essay 12 years ago about this (!!)
    http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.c...tptinyurl.html



    As much as I'm mindful of the historical individual writer/artist copyright issues over the decades, I hope they get better: more creatives getting more credit, royalties, settlements, etc.

    As a fan, I'm glad that the company is finally stable, compared to the era of dysfunction and bankruptcy. I'm glad the character rights were not simply auctioned off to highest bidders and thus possibly farmed out to totally random and ultra-separate publishing companies. (Spider-Man at Boom, FF at Image, Avengers at Dark Horse, etc.)

    I know I don't control any of the corporate intrigue. But hey. Long-term, it was a boon for Disney to gradually incorporate these characters into multimedia platforms: films, television, live action, animation, video games, etc. And it seems that the executives in charge are actually enthusiastic about developing the characters, compared to the era of 70s, 80s, 90s, when comics shows and films were still ultra-rare, and creatively looked down upon. Not to mention the fact that Marvel just couldn't get anything substantive done for decades when it comes to film projects.

    Disney needs to get more aggressive about finally getting the full rights back to Sub-Mariner and any other characters that were licensed years (decades) ago to TV or film deals and nothing happened.
    Wow, excellent write up from 12 years ago.

    This is my point, talk about a tragedy if the characters were all sold off and split up.

    But they will live on in their singular universe.

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