I Will Forever Love Disney For Buying Marvel

[Revolutionary_Jack]

All of what you are saying is true, but I think you're misunderstanding me but next time I'll be clearer I should have written at the top in big bolded letters: "in the context of superhero films"

Isn't that a low bar? They did for the first time in superhero movies what regular movies had done far more often, not to mention stuff like documentaries and TV and so on.

because a kid of color is not watching Doctor Zhivago

The point is Doctor Zhivago was the major blockbuster of the '60s and 70s and so on and it had a POC male lead in what is adjusted for inflation still one of the highest grossing movies all time. So even having a non-white male lead isn't some new thing. Or you know go back to the 1940 THIEF OF BAGDAD where the Indian actor (i.e. South-East Asia) Sabu got to be the hero and he actually got to kill the bad guy played by a white guy. Having a major children's movie where the audience roots for a POC against a white villain is way more subversive than what Marvel has done, where Black Panther is essentially black-on-black violence, which was quite popular with African-American audiences (https://www.laweekly.com/off-white-like-me/).

Even Quentin Tarantino's Django revolves around that, so much so that Will Smith walked out of that movie because as he said, "I have to kill the bad guy" i.e. Leonardo DiCaprio's character. (https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...unchained-role).

I mentioned Fruitvale Station by Ryan Coogler, also Mudbound, or US or GET OUT, and other films by Denzel and Will Smith. Giving excessive credit to Disney takes the spotlight from stuff that got things done earlier, better, and deeper, people who took real risks and did stuff well before.

I have no problem with people liking Black Panther or excited for Shang Chi.

I have a problem crediting the movies to Disney as if there was some implicit connection, as if there was any real courage in doing the right thing after doing everything else.

[charliehustle415]

Isn't that a low bar? They did for the first time in superhero movies what regular movies had done far more often, not to mention stuff like documentaries and TV and so on.



The point is Doctor Zhivago was the major blockbuster of the '60s and 70s and so on and it had a POC male lead in what is adjusted for inflation still one of the highest grossing movies all time. So even having a non-white male lead isn't some new thing. Or you know go back to the 1940 THIEF OF BAGDAD where the Indian actor (i.e. South-East Asia) Sabu got to be the hero and he actually got to kill the bad guy played by a white guy. Having a major children's movie where the audience roots for a POC against a white villain is way more subversive than what Marvel has done, where Black Panther is essentially black-on-black violence, which was quite popular with African-American audiences (https://www.laweekly.com/off-white-like-me/).

Even Quentin Tarantino's Django revolves around that, so much so that Will Smith walked out of that movie because as he said, "I have to kill the bad guy" i.e. Leonardo DiCaprio's character. (https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...unchained-role).

I mentioned Fruitvale Station by Ryan Coogler, also Mudbound, or US or GET OUT, and other films by Denzel and Will Smith. Giving excessive credit to Disney takes the spotlight from stuff that got things done earlier, better, and deeper, people who took real risks and did stuff well before.

I have no problem with people liking Black Panther or excited for Shang Chi.

I have a problem crediting the movies to Disney as if there was some implicit connection, as if there was any real courage in doing the right thing after doing everything else.

I hear you, but that is not the point I am trying to make.

All of the titles you mention are movies not meant for a mass audience no one is taking their kid to watch Django or Fruitvale Station, but they will for a superhero movie.

And for the longest time superhero equated to "milquetoast white guy" - why? Because that is what studios thought would sell tickets; but it wasn't until Disney stepped up and put hundreds of millions of dollars behind a superhero of color to show that no it doesn't have to be the same white template to sell tickets.

And if Disney did not do it, we would not have little white kids going "Wakanda Forever" everywhere.

And again yes there have been superheroes of color movies before like Blade, but they were not meant for mass appeal that trilogy is a hard R.

The standard for superhero is no longer Aryan - that is the point I am trying to make.

Internet dorks & racists can kick and scream all they want, but the bell has been rung for a change in the zeitgeist.

And for that I will love and give credit to Disney.

[charliehustle415]

Disney needs to get more aggressive about finally getting the full rights back to Sub-Mariner and any other characters that were licensed years (decades) ago to TV or film deals and nothing happened.

I never knew that Sub-Mariner was licensed out; dang that sucks.

But I suppose there should be some space between Namor and Aquaman; maybe someday we will get that face off between Namor & T'Challa

[Harsh Lesson]

Disney is probably the reason we got to see Monica Rambeau on the big screen, and may eventually see Blue Marvel as well. The editors on the comic side don't seem to understand that we don't need 15 different Spider-Man books, or the same Cap story rehashed for the umpteenth time.

[CJStriker]

I was going to put this as a reply in the MCU Thread but I figured this would make a great discussion jump off point.

This past week has shown that the best to happen to Marvel is Disney buying them.

We have an Asian led multi-million dollar blockbuster coming and we have a superhero movie that seriously looks at racism in America.

I truly believe no other company would take that risk.

Sure we had Blade, but Blade walked so the MCU can run.

And sure Disney has filed down the edges of some of its properties and did try to smother the X-Men to death because of licensing issues [ugh]; but to me that's water under the bridge especially with the strides that representation is being made.

I mean we have 3 huge superhero leads (sorry Wong & Rhoady [next time baby]) that are people of color: Black Panther (T'challa and whoever takes the mantle), Shang-Chi, and Sam (as Falcon or Cap).

Now, of course it did take nearly a decade, and we still don't have a lot of female representation; we do however currently have Captain Marvel and we will soon have Black Widow (but she's dead) and we have the Dora Milaje but we do not have (I think) LGBT representation and very little women of color representation.

Some may disagree but, we as comic fans should be so happy that future generations will have bonkers ass movies that we as children could never even imagine a la: Eternals, GoTG, Shang-Chi, and Doc Strange.

We will also never have to worry about Marvel going away, there was a time that these beloved characters would have disappeared into the ether.

So I thank Disney bringing my heroes to the big and small screens and now I can see the joy in other's faces as they discover the same myths I did in the funny books.

Agree Allot with this Post, I have to say while I was shocked by the News back in 2009 that it happen, it came out of knowhere and we can debate small problems here and their, the Buy of Marvel of MCU has been overall a deal I have become Greatly Grateful as well Charliehustle415!

It all Finally and slowing Help to Bring Super Hero Stories to the Masses in ways while still big in the past has reach a new level now that Marvel Characters one barely know outside of Comic Book Cirles are major houshold names and the movies and stories are getting more bold into telling more and more into lore and out of this world stories in a way the is slow and builds in the minds of the public that it takes them along for the ride.

The Characters has achieved a level of sociatial cementment that will last for much into the future and has transformed how we define heroes, blockbusters, storytelling, acting talent, directing and the want by other studios of making movies on similiar levels by varing effects but still many intersting that we would not have had if not for This by Disney and Marvel.

Most of All they have given characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy, Scarlet Witch My Favorite and Many others House Hold name fame in such postives ways that would have seem unbelivable just a decade ago.

Also it also help bring an end slowly more and more to the characters being under to many studios and the copyright problems that brought.

So Indeed I like the Postives of this View You Gave Charliehustle415!

[charliehustle415]

Disney is probably the reason we got to see Monica Rambeau on the big screen, and may eventually see Blue Marvel as well. The editors on the comic side don't seem to understand that we don't need 15 different Spider-Man books, or the same Cap story rehashed for the umpteenth time.

Exactly Disney saw that they were limited in choosing the big names because of license issues and they had to think outside the box and now my mother knows who T'Challa and Groot are.

Agree Allot with this Post, I have to say while I was shocked by the News back in 2009 that it happen, it came out of knowhere and we can debate small problems here and their, the Buy of Marvel of MCU has been overall a deal I have become Greatly Grateful as well Charliehustle415!

It all Finally and slowing Help to Bring Super Hero Stories to the Masses in ways while still big in the past has reach a new level now that Marvel Characters one barely know outside of Comic Book Cirles are major houshold names and the movies and stories are getting more bold into telling more and more into lore and out of this world stories in a way the is slow and builds in the minds of the public that it takes them along for the ride.

The Characters has achieved a level of sociatial cementment that will last for much into the future and has transformed how we define heroes, blockbusters, storytelling, acting talent, directing and the want by other studios of making movies on similiar levels by varing effects but still many intersting that we would not have had if not for This by Disney and Marvel.

Most of All they have given characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy, Scarlet Witch My Favorite and Many others House Hold name fame in such postives ways that would have seem unbelivable just a decade ago.

Also it also help bring an end slowly more and more to the characters being under to many studios and the copyright problems that brought.

So Indeed I like the Postives of this View You Gave Charliehustle415!

Exactly, I was shocked as well; but Disney made C-list and B-list heroes into AAA stars that are part of the cultural milieu.

There's people talking about "Chaos Magiks" and how cool the vegetarian bad ass M'Baku is

[Iron Maiden]

I never knew that Sub-Mariner was licensed out; dang that sucks.

But I suppose there should be some space between Namor and Aquaman; maybe someday we will get that face off between Namor & T'Challa

IIRC, Kevin Feige announced a couple of years ago that they got Namor back from Universal, who did nothing with the character over the course of their ownership and had to admit they had no plans for a movie. If this article is correct, the problem is that Universal keeps the distribution rights for now. So it's similar to the situation with the Hulk. Hulk can appear in Marvel movies but if he gets a solo movie, Universal will make the money from it. I hope it's not too late since IMO Warner Brothers made Aquaman less like DC's and more like Namor. I hope he can at least make appearances like the Hulk. I don't know if Marvel will ever make a Hulk film and the details haven't been revealed about Universal's hold on the distribution rights.

[charliehustle415]

IIRC, Kevin Feige announced a couple of years ago that they got Namor back from Universal, who did nothing with the character over the course of their ownership and had to admit they had no plans for a movie. If this article is correct, the problem is that Universal keeps the distribution rights for now. So it's similar to the situation with the Hulk. Hulk can appear in Marvel movies but if he gets a solo movie, Universal will make the money from it. I hope it's not too late since IMO Warner Brothers made Aquaman less like DC's and more like Namor. I hope he can at least make appearances like the Hulk. I don't know if Marvel will ever make a Hulk film and the details haven't been revealed about Universal's hold on the distribution rights.

Here's hoping for a cameo in Fantastic Four

[John Venus]

Isn't that a low bar? They did for the first time in superhero movies what regular movies had done far more often, not to mention stuff like documentaries and TV and so on.

The point is Doctor Zhivago was the major blockbuster of the '60s and 70s and so on and it had a POC male lead in what is adjusted for inflation still one of the highest grossing movies all time. So even having a non-white male lead isn't some new thing. Or you know go back to the 1940 THIEF OF BAGDAD where the Indian actor (i.e. South-East Asia) Sabu got to be the hero and he actually got to kill the bad guy played by a white guy. Having a major children's movie where the audience roots for a POC against a white villain is way more subversive than what Marvel has done, where Black Panther is essentially black-on-black violence, which was quite popular with African-American audiences (https://www.laweekly.com/off-white-like-me/).

Even Quentin Tarantino's Django revolves around that, so much so that Will Smith walked out of that movie because as he said, "I have to kill the bad guy" i.e. Leonardo DiCaprio's character. (https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...unchained-role).

I mentioned Fruitvale Station by Ryan Coogler, also Mudbound, or US or GET OUT, and other films by Denzel and Will Smith. Giving excessive credit to Disney takes the spotlight from stuff that got things done earlier, better, and deeper, people who took real risks and did stuff well before.

I have no problem with people liking Black Panther or excited for Shang Chi.

I have a problem crediting the movies to Disney as if there was some implicit connection, as if there was any real courage in doing the right thing after doing everything else.

Yes, that's good, for 70 years ago and good for film buffs to discover but we are talking about now. I wouldn't tell a kid of Arab or South Asian descent to go watch a movie that came out before even his grandfather was born unless he was specifically asking for one. I would recommend something more contemporary. Movies like Black Panther is just as important as Fruitvale Station which is just as important as Selma and is as important Falcon & The Winter Soldier. Representation on all fronts, everywhere and anywhere.

[CJStriker]

Exactly Disney saw that they were limited in choosing the big names because of license issues and they had to think outside the box and now my mother knows who T'Challa and Groot are.



Exactly, I was shocked as well; but Disney made C-list and B-list heroes into AAA stars that are part of the cultural milieu.

There's people talking about "Chaos Magiks" and how cool the vegetarian bad ass M'Baku is

Yea the Factor I NOW live in an World where Chaos Magic is a Common Dicussion Point Everyone is excited about, That My Favorite Scarlet Witch is a House Hold Name, that Miss Olsen herself might be in the Lines for Emmy Nomination, that a Talking Racoon and Tree are beloved icons of a society of heroes, that Captain America is More of an Honored Title Beloved by many to this the best in ourselves, that Thanos is now a Top Tier Villian of Movie History, I can go on!

That this the MCU has done to change the dynamic of the world we live in and the Way we View our Heroes will never be the same again, we live in a new brave world where the outcomes are only as high as what we can hope to be. Yea not ever point is done right, but so much more is done so well!

[charliehustle415]

Yea the Factor I NOW live in an World where Chaos Magic is a Common Dicussion Point Everyone is excited about, That My Favorite Scarlet Witch is a House Hold Name, that Miss Olsen herself might be in the Lines for Emmy Nomination, that a Talking Racoon and Tree are beloved icons of a society of heroes, that Captain America is More of an Honored Title Beloved by many to this the best in ourselves, that Thanos is now a Top Tier Villian of Movie History, I can go on!

That this the MCU has done to change the dynamic of the world we live in and the Way we View our Heroes will never be the same again, we live in a new brave world where the outcomes are only as high as what we can hope to be. Yea not ever point is done right, but so much more is done so well!

We're basically living during a time similar to when the first Star Wars Trilogy came out, but times a million

[Ravin' Ray]

Since Big Hero 6 is one of my two favorite Disney animated films along with Tangled (as my signature can attest), it wouldn't be possible if Disney had not bought Marvel.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I hear you, but that is not the point I am trying to make.

Your point is that you want to credit a corporation. I have a real intrinsic problem with doing that, under any and all circumstances.

If your point was to celebrate the movies then that's fine, but there's no need to bring Disney into this. Disney is trash. Always has been and will be. Likewise Marvel is trash and always will be. And just to be clear, Warner Bros. and DC Comics are also trash in the exact equal way.

The names of these brands mean nothing of real actual value. Individual products and works can be celebrated and ought to be celebrated but they should be credited to the actual production people in charge and not to the company.

And for the longest time superhero equated to "milquetoast white guy" - why? Because that is what studios thought would sell tickets; but it wasn't until Disney stepped up...

Disney bought Marvel in 2009 or so, and you didn't have Black Panther until 2017. You make it sound as if it was some immediate thing or immediate connection. When Disney bought Marvel between 2008-2015 or so it still made movies largely centered around white men just as the comics historically have centered on white men.

And if Disney did not do it, we would not have little white kids going "Wakanda Forever" everywhere.

Little white kids liking black culture is nothing new nor is it terribly consequential. They grow up liking rap music and black sports stars and then become cops that shoot unarmed black people. Now they'll grow up saying "Wakanda Forever" and become cops who shoot unarmed black people.

The standard for superhero is no longer Aryan - that is the point I am trying to make.

Well then make that point without bringing Disney, a company that has historically been quite Aryan. Remember that Walt Disney was the only one in Hollywood who hosted Leni Reifenstahl when she visited the United States in the late-30s. Everyone in town shut their doors to her, except for a few, and Disney was in that select company.

That doesn't get washed away or swept under the rug.

[charliehustle415]

Your point is that you want to credit a corporation. I have a real intrinsic problem with doing that, under any and all circumstances.

If your point was to celebrate the movies then that's fine, but there's no need to bring Disney into this. Disney is trash. Always has been and will be. Likewise Marvel is trash and always will be. And just to be clear, Warner Bros. and DC Comics are also trash in the exact equal way.

The names of these brands mean nothing of real actual value. Individual products and works can be celebrated and ought to be celebrated but they should be credited to the actual production people in charge and not to the company.



Disney bought Marvel in 2009 or so, and you didn't have Black Panther until 2017. You make it sound as if it was some immediate thing or immediate connection. When Disney bought Marvel between 2008-2015 or so it still made movies largely centered around white men just as the comics historically have centered on white men.



Little white kids liking black culture is nothing new nor is it terribly consequential. They grow up liking rap music and black sports stars and then become cops that shoot unarmed black people. Now they'll grow up saying "Wakanda Forever" and become cops who shoot unarmed black people.



Well then make that point without bringing Disney, a company that has historically been quite Aryan. Remember that Walt Disney was the only one in Hollywood who hosted Leni Reifenstahl when she visited the United States in the late-30s. Everyone in town shut their doors to her, except for a few, and Disney was in that select company.

That doesn't get washed away or swept under the rug.

Jack, I'm not going to argue with you because it seems like your mind is made up and if that is the case; why are you in this thread?

I get it you don't like the big corpos and that's fine, but without them where would we be? Unfortunately they allow said creative works to be showcased in worldwide box offices. Moreover, they are the IP holders there's no getting away from that.

And you do not have to like it - that's cool, but why grind that axe here?

[Digifiend]

That can still happen, you know. Remember the source for these characters are the 616 comics, and comics as a medium isn't guaranteed immortality. Nor by the way is cinema nor streaming and so on.

Yeah, there's been rumours recently that DC might shut up shop... and frankly, it's not unrealistic considering how many staff have gone recently. Being owned by a megacorp doesn't mean a comics publisher is safe.