WW's Most Iconic Graphic Novel?

[I'm a Fish]

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This isn't wrong? Specially when the person on top has super strength and her main tool is already something that restrains anyone.

Not really the place for a picture like that.

I can get upset too, but at the end of the day it’s only comics. Sometimes we all need to remind ourselves of that.

[Alpha]

Not really the place for a picture like that.

I can get upset too, but at the end of the day it’s only comics. Sometimes we all need to remind ourselves of that.

Is it really? It's exactly what Wonder Woman is doing in the cover ot Hiketeia, except in Live Action. If you see how that picture is wrong, how do you not see how the drawinf itself is problematic?

[I'm a Fish]

Is it really? It's exactly what Wonder Woman is doing in the cover ot Hiketeia, except in Live Action. If you see how that picture is wrong, how do you not see how the drawinf itself is problematic?

Because one is fiction.

[Alpha]

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Does it look better when they are in cosplay?

[Alpha]

I too am tired of talking about how much I hate the cover of Diana's most famous graphic novel. With the way she has been mistreated over the decades it sucks when I put down something of hers. So while I wish people would see the problem, I'll just focus on what I do likelike and find inspiring.

[Gaelforce]

Whereas I appreciate both sides of this debate, let's leave the real life hot topic of police violence out of this thread, please.

I don't need this discussion to go off down that road.

[BiteTheBullet]

I too am tired of talking about how much I hate the cover of Diana's most famous graphic novel. With the way she has been mistreated over the decades it sucks when I put down something of hers. So while I wish people would see the problem, I'll just focus on what I do likelike and find inspiring.

Some people don't see the problem as you put it. I never had a problem with the cover and it was time Batman got his comeuppance.

It's not like he punched out Cheetah or kicked Diana in the stomach to incapacitate her.......oh wait, that has happened to her! Hello Megan (watching alot of Young Justice lately)

[SiegePerilous02]

I think the main issue with the cover is that the main focus and most eye catching element is Batman's face, to the point where it's not immediately apparent as a Wonder Woman book. Yeah her name is on it, but that's not as grabbing as Batman grimacing (...or smiling)

Alpha kind of touched on it, but I still never agree with Diana grinding a friend under heel under any circumstances. I can understand using the lasso because it's a tool to compel truth and one can still compose themselves with dignity and respect while ensnared, but Diana embracing the posture of an oppressor to force surrender is just antithetical and feels more like Rucka was trying to make her kewl/badass. For many that works, but that isn't Diana to me. She'd never put her boot on the head of anyone in the JLA. Much less grandstand to assert dominance (yes, I'm aware she's trying to end the conflict). She's better than that. The whole thing read like Rucka trying to sell Diana to people based on "well she can **** up Batman."

I know there's more to it, but frankly that's what it boils down to in the end and "look how cool x is, they beat y" is the least compelling quality of the genre for this reader.

It completely breaks the book for me. It's not like that's Joker or something, and even then, she'd restrain them with the lasso, but I can be convinced she'd do this to some truly reprehensible foes... But her ally (that Rucka believes she has romantic feelings for)? It's too far. Much like Snyder's fascination with Bruce and Joker teaming up, that's an automatic fail from me. It being the cover image only stinks worse.

In fairness, I think Diana is entitled to a little grandstanding after Bruce doesn't display much respect towards her. If anything, he's the one acting like a bigger idiot by being so single minded on pursuing Danielle. But I do agree that it seems engineered for both of them to forget they've known each other for years and not talk it out like reasonable adults (in silly costumes). Like if Diana said she was granting Danielle asylum and was pulling strings to bring her to Reformation Island or something, i can't imagine it's a solution Bruce would be that upset about. Pursing "criminals" like Danielle doesn't seem like it would be high on his priority list. It would be a "yeah, I guess I will take her in if I happen to see her, but I got the Joker piling up bodies left and right. A girl who killed some scummy human traffickers and rapists escaping won't keep me up at night" situation for him

But then, Rucka's Bruce is pretty sucky in general. And he is unfortunately consistent with how he was mostly written at that time. It's not an era I'm remotely fond of as a Bat-fan

[I'm a Fish]

I too am tired of talking about how much I hate the cover of Diana's most famous graphic novel. With the way she has been mistreated over the decades it sucks when I put down something of hers. So while I wish people would see the problem, I'll just focus on what I do likelike and find inspiring.

I, for one, have not said what I think about The Hiketeia or what I think about Wonder Woman stepping on Batman's head on this thread or any other...so perhaps I shall break my silence on it.

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I think, like many things, it is viewed from the perspective of Batman. Most people either like it because they are tired of Batman being Bat-god, or dislike it because a character they like is humiliated. Nether one of this opinions are wrong or unjustified.

But this isn't Batman's book. It's Wonder Woman's. So perhaps it should be looked at from the perspective of Wonder Woman.

-

She is fighting for her life because of the Hiketeia. Once you view it from that perspective, the situation changes.

If Batman takes Danielle, Diana's life is forfeit, she will be torn apart by the Furies, and Batman doesn't care. He read about the Hiketeia, he knows the details of the ritual, the story itself shows us such when Batman abases himself to Diana. But he still won't stop. He refuses to understand. He thinks Diana is putting herself and her ritual above the law, and to Batman, no one is above the law.

Diana putting her foot on Bruce's head to me, is meant to show Diana's frustration. Bruce refuses to accept the reality of the situation Diana is in, and the danger his stubbornness is putting on her, and Diana has had enough. I do not view it as a celebrated moment, but in the context of the story, a necessary one. And it's important to remember Diana is not a perfect person, I can see her doing such a thing to Batman if his stubbornness is putting her life in danger.

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Would the lasso have had the same impact? No. Not from a narrative perspective, or a visual one.

The lasso wouldn't have changed who Bruce is, he was never going to stop until Danielle was brought in, and Danielle would have rather died than gone to prison. The opening of the story establishes Danielle was more willing to fall to her death than be taken in by Batman. So Danielle was never going to let Diana go while she was alive. And in the end, she didn't...



That's my thoughts on it anyway.

[Gaius]

I think the main issue with the cover is that the main focus and most eye catching element is Batman's face, to the point where it's not immediately apparent as a Wonder Woman book. Yeah her name is on it, but that's not as grabbing as Batman grimacing (...or smiling)



In fairness, I think Diana is entitled to a little grandstanding after Bruce doesn't display much respect towards her. If anything, he's the one acting like a bigger idiot by being so single minded on pursuing Danielle. But I do agree that it seems engineered for both of them to forget they've known each other for years and not talk it out like reasonable adults (in silly costumes). Like if Diana said she was granting Danielle asylum and was pulling strings to bring her to Reformation Island or something, i can't imagine it's a solution Bruce would be that upset about. Pursing "criminals" like Danielle doesn't seem like it would be high on his priority list. It would be a "yeah, I guess I will take her in if I happen to see her, but I got the Joker piling up bodies left and right. A girl who killed some scummy human traffickers and rapists escaping won't keep me up at night" situation for him

But then, Rucka's Bruce is pretty sucky in general. And he is unfortunately consistent with how he was mostly written at that time. It's not an era I'm remotely fond of as a Bat-fan

I think it's best to view Bats in the story as similar to Superman in DKR where they're meant to serve the narrative purpose of being re-imagined as a villain for the respective hero rather than be a true representation of who they're supposed to be. Superman being a government tool for the anti-authoritarian Batman in DKR's case and in turn Batman as an unrelenting but uncaring arm of the justice system for Wonder Woman in Hiketeia.

Though I guess unlike DKR, and like's been brought up earlier, we don't get into Bruce's head like we do Clark's in DKR and so he comes off as a bit of a jackass, to put it lightly, without that (the "princess" comments are what stick out to me). I've never read Rucka's Batman stuff but he came off as more chill the times he showed up in his WW run (pre-neck snap obviously).

[Jabare]

[SonOfBaldwin]

I view Dead Earth and Earth One as pretty much trash, totally missing the point of Diana in far too many ways, and antithetical to her values.

Okay, I thought it was just me. It's the misogyny masquerading as feminism (and sometimes, not masquerading at all) for me.

[Alpha]

I don't think you could say that about Earth One volume 3. It seemed to me like a genuine appraisal of the amazon ideals.

[Gaius]

Okay, I thought it was just me. It's the misogyny masquerading as feminism (and sometimes, not masquerading at all) for me.

I'm cool on the series overall but may I ask why? Not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking.

Main thing I never cared for on the EO series was Paquette's art.

[John Venus]

I think Paquette's art is the best part of the Earth One series of OGN but I've seen critiques of Morrison's writing and handling of certain topics on his EO series.