WW's Most Iconic Graphic Novel?

[kjn]

Its a little off topic, but what are peoples thoughts on the other OGNs featuring Wonder Woman?

JLA: A League of One is very good, but it loses out to Hiketeia in that the story isn't really tied to Diana—it could be repurposed to just about any superhero.

I view Dead Earth and Earth One as pretty much trash, totally missing the point of Diana in far too many ways, and antithetical to her values.

Tempest Tossed was fine, but I think it failed to actually do and say something meaningful about Diana. She was too little of an active agent in the story, and the actual threat was more suited to Batgirl or Black Canary than Wonder Woman. Not that I ding street-level stories, but then I at least think they should produce some actual moral or ethical dilemma for Diana, or say something interesting about her.

Diana: Princess of the Amazons was delightful, and one of the best depictions of Themyscira I've read.

The Spirit of Truth makes Diana far too impersonal, and totally misses her empathetic side.

I haven't read Warbringer. I started on the novel, but it didn't work for me.

[Psy-lock]

Its a little off topic, but what are peoples thoughts on the other OGNs featuring Wonder Woman?

I liked the idea of Amazonia (Diana in the Victorian England) but not so much the story itself. I think it can be made into an animated movie the same way Gotham by Gaslight was: take the setting but make an original story.

[SiegePerilous02]

Hell yeah. Look at the murderers who Batman didn't put in jail: Roy Braddock, Artie Mason, Steve Rittenhouse, and Peter Collins. Look at the person who Batman failed to protect: Melody Wellys.

Batman in this story is one-dimensional, but he represents the same flawed justice that too many women or people of colour face in the USA and other places.

Batman is only one man and we're not privy to his POV very much in this story. He and his allies can't stop every crime in Gotham; he's aware these things happen in Gotham and tries to combat them on multiple fronts, but Melody falling through the cracks is not the same as him being unconcerned with justice for her or that he was fine with her murderers being free. Danielle committed pre-meditated murder and she had a damn sympathetic reason for doing it, which isn't lost on him at all, but it's still murder. And Diana doesn't condone her actions either. She is sympathetic, but takes her in before learning what she is on the run from, and doesn't really reach a conclusion for what she is going to do with her before Danielle takes the tough choice away from her. Which is kind of convenient, because there really isn't a satisfactory answer to this situation that you could unpack in a limited comic story.

But arguing that classism and sexism is at the core of Batman is again, kind of a similar red flag for not getting a character (or a whole character) as liming Diana to just being a warrior. Because we have stuff like Year One in which he goes after the corrupt police and upper class/organized crime of Gotham, not punching downward to the lower class, and other stories that try to follow that example.

[Agent Z]

Yeah, I'm hoping Historia blows everyone away. The Hiketeia has long been my favorite, but upon reflection it's a little disappointing that her best GN involves Batman.

Then again, Batman's most influential story stars Superman and other characters from the DCU.

[MajorHoy]

[I'm a Fish]

OMG Guys how could we forget The Legend of Wonder Woman!

It's cancellation stings all over again...

[Alpha]

I view Dead Earth and Earth One as pretty much trash, totally missing the point of Diana in far too many ways, and antithetical to her values.

How so? I didn't enjoy volume 1, but volume 2 and specially volume 3 seem to follow the conceptual basis of Marston's original vision and create a good story out of it. The execution is definitively different, but the ideas and what Diana does seems to be faithful to her creation.

[Gaius]

OMG Guys how could we forget The Legend of Wonder Woman!

It's cancellation stings all over again...

I didn't count it as it De Liz/Dillon had plans for it continue and it came out issue-by-issue rather than something entirely standalone like what most think of when it comes an OGN.

But yeah, still sour it got canned.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Oh I didn't think we could count Legend of Wonder Woman as it was originally a digital first weekly series. Put me down for that if its an option

[Largo161]

I didn't count it as it De Liz/Dillon had plans for it continue and it came out issue-by-issue rather than something entirely standalone like what most think of when it comes an OGN.

But yeah, still sour it got canned.

Question: Wasn’t The Dark Knight originally published issue by issue?

[Gaius]

Question: Wasn’t The Dark Knight originally published issue by issue?

Fair enough.

[Largo161]

Fair enough.

Oh... I wasn’t trying to score a point. I really wasn’t certain if I remembered correctly.

If we are going to count long form stories that were published issue by issue and later collected then I vote for Legend of WW.

[Perseus]

Why do people keep bringing up the truth power? I'm not saying she needed the truth power of the lasso, just the indestructibility of the rope.

If you show me a hero doing that to a character than that "hero" isn't acting like a hero, or even with honor. Putting your foot on top of another person's head while she is lying on the ground isn't honorable in any situation. It's pure humiliation. Even in the real world, no police officer has a reason to put his foot on top of the head of a man lying on the ground. I'm not saying it ruins the whole book, but I hate that it's the freaking cover considering the fact that it's a disgusting image that represents the opposite of what Diana should be. She can be agressive and cocky, but she should never take away someone's dignity.

Well, lets not bring up Police Brutality in this situation because that and what happens in Hiketeia are frankly different.

IDK, to me this just seems like your cherry picking what violence your ok with and what you aren't. She takes away some peoples dignity in A League of One too, Aquaman meet Charybdis.

There is no shame in losing. Wonder Woman is quite agressive with her teammates in A League of One but she literally does the least harm she can with each of them, just enough to knock them out or incapacitate them all separately.

On the other hand in Hiketeia the woman that can lift trucks puts her herculean foot on top of the very human head of Batman while he is already spread on the ground and slowly says "Don't...Get...Up". Not only does she neglect her main tool, she also says those 3 words in the most pompous way possible. She is doing everything to make Batman feel small in this situation. Like you said, it's a power move, with someone that she outclasses by far in this situation. It has no purpose. She can tie her lasso and batman wouldn't be able to escape, but instead she literally threatens him unecessarily.

As far as the League of One Warrior critique, I have no problem with Diana killing, what I dislike in the warrior archetype is her combat becoming about war and attacking instead of dominating. And Diana despite being misguided in this book happens to also be very just. When she faces the big bad dragon she even bargains with him at first because she doesn't want to fight or kill him and just wants his heart. He is the one that attacks her and forces her to fight.

Yes...and? She was never going to crush his head, that would be out of character. She has every right to be arrogant here, Bruce is the "unstoppable force" and Diana is the "immovable object", he was constantly over stepping some of his boundaries here and Diana needed to let him know that the "fight" is over. Bruce even attempts to twist Hiketeia to his own advantage, abusing the ritual just to gain a head on Diana.

Again, IDK I feel like this is cherry picking. She 100% attacks here no "wrestling" or domination involved. The bargaining scene is fine, its very much in character so I'm not taking that away. Just feel like your being hyper critical over a non issue here, which even then a magic indestructible lasso seems kind of over kill for a mere mortal no? Diana's boot on Bruce's head is a shocking yet memorable scene, its not out of character by any means due to the situation that they find themselves, and its the reason more people know about the story, its a eye catcher.

[Alpha]

She doesn't have to "let him know" that the fight is over. She can use her lasso and Batman won't be able to escape it for the rest of his life. He doesn't have the super strength to untie her knot and he can't destroy the lasso. She deliberately chose the ugliest way to put him down.

And again, being overcome by shear strength isn't humiliating. A giant monster isn't humiliating. But being put on the ground and having someone put their foot on your head does take away your dignity. I've never seen an image of someone doing that to another human being without it being disgusting.

It means you are worth as much as the ground they step on. And she doesn't even put her feet on his back which is just as powerful, she puts it on his head. It's the worst way you can put someone down. If she was stepping on top of someone trully demented like the Joker or Hitler I would totally understand. Those monsters deserve no dignity. But Batman? Even though he can be a misguided cocky narcisist he is still someone that deserves dignity, specially since he was doing what he thought was right. Diana is treating him in a way that would only be acceptable if the person on the ground was a mass murderer, rapist or war profiteer.

[Perseus]

She doesn't have to "let him know" that the fight is over. She can use her lasso and Batman won't be able to escape it for the rest of his life. He doesn't have the super strength to untie her knot and he can't destroy the lasso. She deliberately chose the ugliest way to put him down.

And again, being overcome by shear strength isn't humiliating. A giant monster isn't humiliating. But being put on the ground and having someone put their foot on your head does take away your dignity. I've never seen an image of someone doing that to another human being without it being disgusting.

It means you are worth as much as the ground they step on. And she doesn't even put her feet on his back which is just as powerful, she puts it on his head. It's the worst way you can put someone down. If she was stepping on top of someone trully demented like the Joker or Hitler I would totally understand. Those monsters deserve no dignity. But Batman? Even though he can be a misguided cocky narcisist he is still someone that deserves dignity, specially since he was doing what he thought was right. Diana is treating him in a way that would only be acceptable if the person on the ground was a mass murderer, rapist or war profiteer.

But there is no reason for her to use the lasso on him. Bruce was not acting like a criminal, he wasn't going to flee anyway, neither of them are worried about each other, Danielle was their main focus. At this point you just want the lasso to be used for the sake of using the lasso, ignoring the situation at hand. What purpose would batman serve were he tied up? he can't escape so he would not be there to see Danielle's suicide and hear her final words, his ending and reason for being in the story would be broken and the story would be criticized for it.

Wondy literally picked up Aquaman and tossed him like a ball into the sea monster... again I'm not complaining because its funny but it is also humiliating how much of a non threat he was treated. Actually, most of the league were taken out in a single page/panel except for Bruce and Clark for their own reasons.

Again, I feel like this is a non issue, it doesn't mean what you think it means, and I feel like your taking it somewhat out of context by originally comparing to the Wondy moments that the Nu52 gave us or even Zack Snyder. Its a powerful, shocking, and memorable moment that's not just of a physical scene but also of ideological. Between Bruce's view of absolute justice and Diana's view of a honor bound oath, and while no one really wins in this story, Diana kept her oath.