Certainly. Carlin, and Cavalieri were actually part of the creative team vs being "the editors."
Sleez mentioned that Superman had resisted him up to the point where Scott showed up. Not flattering for any character still, but an intentionally forgettable problem for Superman.
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My favorite version of the character is the pre-Crisis one. All the backstory and mythology of that character is what I think of when I think Superman. However, I loved the period 1986 - 1993 quite a bit. Some of my favorite comics are from that era so I appreciate what was being done. I remember the excitement of hearing that Byrne was going to be doing Superman. I was so curious what the costume would look like. I remember drawing what I thought his interpretation might look like. No cape, gauntlets, and the Colossus shoulder things. I was shocked but pleased that he kept the look so classic. The energy of that time was great though. I always wondered what someone like Steve Gerber would’ve done with the character. I liked what Byrne did though and he also produced some great art. Garcia Lopez would’ve been amazing but the impact wouldn’t have been as great as having John Byrne on the title.
I’ve always said that Crisis showed that a great story could be told with the old continuity and think it’s the same with Superman. There were some great stories done in the 70’s but they are aimed at a bit younger audience that today. Bates, Maggin, Pasko, Conway, & people like Wein and Starlin showed the great stories could be told with pre Crisis Superman. I loved both eras though.
Last edited by Jon-El; 04-28-2021 at 05:34 AM.
Was there ever a reason given as to why they didn’t radically redesign the costume for Post-Crisis? Given the extent Byrne overhauled everything else it’s odd that was left untouched. The Chris Reeve films still too fresh in pop culture to do such a radical breakaway?
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
I just don't think the visual (and lets be realistic, when we talk the visual we're usually talking about the trunks) was that big a deal into the 80s despite him being close to hitting the half century mark by that time. That's usually the biggest reason given behind any updates to the suit that have taken place, and without that being an issue then, it would seem reasonable to me that they just saw absolutely no reason to mess with the visual at all. But this logic is based only on my personal experience. Being a child of the 80s and 90s I can say I didn't catch any wind of the trunks being lame and goofy looking until the 90s. That's just me though, others may have a different recollection.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 04-27-2021 at 10:08 PM.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
I personally hadn't heard or met someone who complained about the costume until the Electric suit came about and people were like "yeah about time." Granted there wasn't an internet site I was on like I am these days but most people I knew seemed to understand that it's what half of the comic heroes out there were still wearing anyway. They took away Batman's trunks in the mid 90s and they were back before the end of the decade.
I still think that the look should just be accepted if you want to accept everything else. Nothing wrong with an update but nothing needed anyway. I feel the same way when people do Popeye with a full sleeve or a doo rag or something.
I have a hard time believing that a real overhaul of the costume crossed the creators' minds back then or that the freedom was available
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I remember seeing a one page promo for the “Man of Steel” mini series and it had the issue #1 image of him standing there opening his shirt. For me, that was really comforting. While I expected a costume change, I didn’t really want one. Byrne basically made the S bigger and changed the hair. It still looked like Superman to me.
I don’t remember anyone making an issue about the trunks until I was on a forum or something so I’m thinking late 90’s. Batman lost them sometime in the 90’s so maybe it was an issue. I just never heard anything about it.
I'm pretty sure that was just to make Batman's costume closer to the movies. It happened in the Troika arc so 1995-ish which is when Forever was released. They tried to make it all black/grey and immediately seemed to roll it back and return to (a much darker) blue/grey. Batman kept the black/grey with Kelley Jones' incredibly stylised work, but Detective Comics and everything else was blue/grey.
I'm pretty sure the trunks were back by the end of No Man's Land (if not before) and disappeared again with the New (trunkless) 52.
Last edited by exile001; 04-28-2021 at 08:17 AM.
"Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"
"I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"
"*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."
Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!
The first try at trunk-less Batman didn't last. He went back to his black trunks after that. The second time was more successful.
I'm not perfectly happy with the trunk-less look on Batman, but the second time seemed a better design. The first attempt--well, I think of the ballet scene from TOP SECRET.
They were like Denny O’Neill at the Bat offices - part of the creative team, but without being dictators.
And one thing that I think should be considered about Post-Crisis was that the editorial direction was keeping pace with the BatBooks for a long time in terms fo expanding the story and competently handling crossover and big events, which when done well can compensate for other issues in quality. The Death and Return of Superman was an event that I would argue had a better immediate fall out than Knightfall.
And, like some parts of the Silver and Bronze Age, they weren’t afraid to try “adjusting” as opposed to outright retconning everything away.
Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?
I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP