Do people still think the Post-Crisis writers were better?

[Kuwagaton]

They've stuck around, but have also been criticized as being a ripoff of the Hulk and Ross.

And are either of those things big selling points for readers?

Thunderbolt Lane is a pretty modern thing. It's as accurate to call it a New 52 thing as it is to call it "post Crisis."

[HsssH]

Okay, my memory is fuzzy here, but did the dialogue indicate it didn't happen, or did the dialogue indicate that they hoped nothing happened?

Didn't Darkseid show some tapes to Miracle before all that? From my understanding implication was that Barda had done it with others before we got whole scene with Superman.

[manofsteel1979]

Not that the writters weren't solid,but I'd echo others here in that the editorial team over the late 90s (Mike Carlin and Joey Calveri) were highly competent editors who were collaborative with their writers. I'd even put Eddie Berganza's early run with Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly in that category up until around "Our Worlds At War."

[JAK]

Not that the writters weren't solid,but I'd echo others here in that the editorial team over the late 90s (Mike Carlin and Joey Calveri) were highly competent editors who were collaborative with their writers. I'd even put Eddie Berganza's early run with Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly in that category up until around "Our Worlds At War."

That's the draw for me, too.

Individually, maybe they aren't "better" - but all of them as a team, frankly... they're still the best, imo.

[Adekis]

I don't know if I think the post-Crisis writers and arcs and storylines were better, but those teams were phenomenal at balancing

I don't always think their version of Clark/Superman himself is the best, frankly. It got better as time went on, but there's a while there where I'm going "jeez, can he please be a little smarter, more competent, more progressive?" But that balance of the expanded cast of Metropolis, its aesthetic, the Planet, including several of the characters' professional lives, with the science fiction action adventures of Superman, is undeniably a highwater mark for the franchise!

Plus the Simonson and Bogdanove team is definitely in my top five favorite writer / artist collaborators in the history of the character!

Maybe top three, heck.

[Jim Kelly]

I think the 1970s had quite the expanded cast, too. If they could just take the cast from the 1970s and the cast from the 1990s and combine them (eliminating some of the duplications), then that would be a fine Metropolis.

[JAK]

I don't know if I think the post-Crisis writers and arcs and storylines were better, but those teams were phenomenal at balancing

I don't always think their version of Clark/Superman himself is the best, frankly. It got better as time went on, but there's a while there where I'm going "jeez, can he please be a little smarter, more competent, more progressive?" But that balance of the expanded cast of Metropolis, its aesthetic, the Planet, including several of the characters' professional lives, with the science fiction action adventures of Superman, is undeniably a highwater mark for the franchise!

Plus the Simonson and Bogdanove team is definitely in my top five favorite writer / artist collaborators in the history of the character!

Maybe top three, heck.

Definitely! For me, it depends on what part of Post-Crisis we're talking - usually, when I think of it, I think more about the Triangle Era than the initial Post-Crisis time, itself.

I think the 1970s had quite the expanded cast, too. If they could just take the cast from the 1970s and the cast from the 1990s and combine them (eliminating some of the duplications), then that would be a fine Metropolis.

I think that was kinda the idea that Johns had in "Secret Origin," to be honest. Not a great execution, but that certainly seemed to be the plan.

[The Frog Bros]

Definitely! For me, it depends on what part of Post-Crisis we're talking - usually, when I think of it, I think more about the Triangle Era than the initial Post-Crisis time, itself.



I think that was kinda the idea that Johns had in "Secret Origin," to be honest. Not a great execution, but that certainly seemed to be the plan.

Yeah, haven't re-read SO in a bit but I recall my initial thoughts on first reading were that it read like a greatest hits album. Not necessarily completely bad per se, but taking bits and pieces from various stories def made it feel like it lacked a cohesive or unique take of its own. Trying to please everybody by including multiple interpretations, it ended up a bit stale and boring.

But hey, on the other hand, some people like greatest hits albums so that's cool too

[Jim Kelly]

I don't remember that from SECRET ORIGIN (but I wasn't able to find all the issues at my local shop at the time, so), but I do remember, I think, seeing Steve Lombard in the ACTION COMICS run. That got me excited, not much came of that. And as always with Geoff Johns, he chose to ignore what other writers had done with the character. Steve was supposed to be like Broadway Joe Namath, a guy who had been a great football quarterback who then became a sportscaster. The Johns Lombard didn't seem like he'd ever been a great athlete, or had the heroic nature of Steve Lombard. Yes, Lombard was a jerk, but he had other admirable qualities. And I believe the Johns version was balding.

Were there other characters from 1970s Metropolis--Clark's neighbours, people he knew in the city, co-workers, T.V. personalities--that Johns used? Or people from Smallville?

[JAK]

Yeah, haven't re-read SO in a bit but I recall my initial thoughts on first reading were that it read like a greatest hits album. Not necessarily completely bad per se, but taking bits and pieces from various stories def made it feel like it lacked a cohesive or unique take of its own. Trying to please everybody by including multiple interpretations, it ended up a bit stale and boring.

But hey, on the other hand, some people like greatest hits albums so that's cool too

Oh, certainly - I remember it being an ok read, but more serving as a basic blueprint for just about anything to fit into. Which, as that, it does do pretty well.

I don't remember that from SECRET ORIGIN (but I wasn't able to find all the issues at my local shop at the time, so), but I do remember, I think, seeing Steve Lombard in the ACTION COMICS run. That got me excited, not much came of that. And as always with Geoff Johns, he chose to ignore what other writers had done with the character. Steve was supposed to be like Broadway Joe Namath, a guy who had been a great football quarterback who then became a sportscaster. The Johns Lombard didn't seem like he'd ever been a great athlete, or had the heroic nature of Steve Lombard. Yes, Lombard was a jerk, but he had other admirable qualities. And I believe the Johns version was balding.

Were there other characters from 1970s Metropolis--Clark's neighbours, people he knew in the city, co-workers, T.V. personalities--that Johns used? Or people from Smallville?

Yeah, that was (at the time) surprising to me. Johns only picked Steve and I think one or two others - and then misread half of him. But that's kind of a pattern; for all the hype he'd built around himself as a guy who could bring Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis together, he did the same to Superboy Prime and a lot of other characters he's touched. A cursory read (and also misread) of a character, taking the bare graft of what he remembered and running with it. Plus, Lombard being a hollow jerk makes it easier for Johns to put Clark in his favorite characterization - namely the Donnerverse one.

I do still think the overall idea of SO was solid as a concept, but I'd also like to see a more nuanced version of it that does a better job of giving all the characters three dimensions.

[Dralokonda]

Ive mostly been reading post crisis comics and to be honest i've thoroughly enjoyed them. I have however kept clear of silver age material due to how ridiculously powerful he was back then, but i'f actually like to experience how he was back then when he was written at his best as far as that point in time, so any silver age recommendations guys?

[oneveryfineday]

Ive mostly been reading post crisis comics and to be honest i've thoroughly enjoyed them. I have however kept clear of silver age material due to how ridiculously powerful he was back then, but i'f actually like to experience how he was back then when he was written at his best as far as that point in time, so any silver age recommendations guys?

Hmmm, I can’t recommend anything specific off the top of my head, but expect something completely different from if you’re used to reading post-Crisis serialized stories. Silver Age stories are usually one-and-done and I just tend to randomly pick stuff. Here’s a playlist of some Silver Age stories though:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...zRkqxGFJD-Y8q2

And I don’t think you need to be put-off by Silver Age Clark’s power levels as they aren’t meant to be quantified; Silver Age Supes is wild, whimsical, fantastical wish fulfillment for kids and powers get made up to service a story. He can shoot mini-versions of himself from his hands, blow away a solar system by sneezing at it, and create rainbow sculptures out of clouds. Also he’s a bit of a jerk but I like that he just has fun with his powers rather than feels burdened by them. The Willy Wonka of Superman, if you will. And also a totally different guy from Post-Crisis Supes. If you like the sound of that you’ll like the Silver Age!

[Dralokonda]

That sounds alot like the stuff anti superman fans say that makes superman appear as a mary sue character, but i'll have a look nonetheless, thankyou

[oneveryfineday]

That sounds alot like the stuff anti superman fans say that makes superman appear as a mary sue character, but i'll have a look nonetheless, thankyou

Heh, then I’ll say they have no sense of wonder or fun

Though I wouldn’t say Silver Age Supes is a Mary Sue because again, the power levels aren’t the point for that era. Think of SA stories as...fairytales, instead of Greek myths. They operate on their own whimsical logic. But with superheroes. Plus SA Supes is more of a chaotic prankster character than a moral, god-like one.

But I’m arguing with what some antis might have said or not said so I’ll just leave it there haha

[SiegePerilous02]

The Silver Age comics were more like a demented sitcom with a neurotic God-like alien prankster as the star. In which case power levels aren't really an issue because they weren't used for the standard conflicts we have now.

I'd say Bronze Age Superman is a satisfying mix between the two eras; he's more toned down than the SA version but still has all of that lore attached to him, plus some of the characterizations. Just more mature. Go to Pre-Crisis stories from that era are usually Alan Moore's stories and Elliot Maggin's, including "Must there be a Superman?," "Who took the super out of Superman?" and his two novels.