Page 1 of 25 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 364
  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,971

    Default Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

    How do you guys feel about this. I mean Dc already has many characters that would fill the need for diverse. Yet doesn't use them and changes a character people know. Like we have Alan Scott. I mean they have his son who is gay. I mean they could also being back Earth 2. They have gotten backlash before. So why keep doing this?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,891

    Default

    I'm fine with it, to me unless it's really significant the characters race or sexuality to who they are then I can accept the change. Like what does it matter if Alan Scott is gay, yes it does change his past relationships but it doesn't effect who he is as a superhero. It's not like I'm suddenly disinterested in reading him, it's just now he is going to be dating men in his free time. Like the Black Adam movie has Hawkman being black, what exactly does that hurt especially with a character whose various past lives could be an ethnicity.

    However if you were too suddenly say make Black Adam American instead of egyptian or Midnighter straight then I think it is a problem because you are taking away from underrepresented groups.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,135

    Default

    Writers have to reckon with the fact that they are reproducing a genre defined largely by straight white male characters. It can't just be ignored, even if I love those characters.

    I prefer when existing characters of color who are authentically conceived to be of color are given the spotlight. It's better for everyone.

    New characters are also welcome. The counter-argument to that is that new or legacy characters routinely get ignored or shuffled back in favor of the originals, and there is a point there. You'd be hard-pressed to argue that a brand new character will ever challenge the trinity in stature, but that doesn't mean they can't become wildly popular.

    Where any bending does occur, I'd rather it be very limited, selective, and that it make internal sense for a character. Revealing a character with opposite-sex partners to be bisexual, or a character with no previously depicted romantic partners whatsoever to be gay, or a presumably white character to have an alternative ancestry that still tracks with their origin, can work without disrupting the story. But often the approach is half-baked and feels forced. Nobody likes that.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    5,417

    Default

    As time goes on, white people will become a minority. That's just an objective fact. In order to stay relevant, these characters are going to have to change eventually anyway. I see it more as getting out in front of something before it happens more than "political correctness". Comics, and DC in particular, have a bad history of being behind the times on social changes. I think they want to avoid that. As far as someone like Alan Scott goes; look, we're over five years out from gay marriage becoming legal and you still have people trying to undo it. My experience is, the people who complain about gay characters and whatnot are usually the same people who, by their own admission, don't want these groups gaining acceptance in society to begin with. So it's a little hard to take their criticism seriously. Alan would still be straight if people had just gotten over this stuff 20 years ago like they should have. And, yeah, getting new characters to catch on is hard in this day and age. And I think a lot of the people who keep saying "why can't you just create a new character" are sort of counting on that. They don't want these groups gaining anymore traction either. So if some rando character banged out five minutes ago doesn't catch on, that helps them.

    Does Alan Scott being gay take away from his ability to be a Lantern? Is he suddenly going to lose to Solomon Grundy? If the answer is no, than nothing is really lost storywise. Yes, companies can go a bit overboard with the "perfect minority" stuff (looking right at you, America Chavez) but it's also sometimes necessary to move society forward. Again, my view is that we should be well past some of these fights by now anyway.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

  5. #5
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    The Ocean
    Posts
    1,972

    Default

    With sexuality, in real life that actually can change for people. Sexuality is a wide spectrum, some people might be 99% more attracted to one gender than the other but still find that one person of the same sex they are attracted too. Also sexuality can be something people go into denial for for years before coming to terms with it.
    When a comic book character comes out as gay or otherwise, I don't really see it as a retcon. I have know people who's sexuality I assumed was straight due to the people they dated, but it was more complicated than that. So when a character comes out, I see it the same way.

    (Also bisexuality is a thing that comics could use more of I think...)

    Race is more complicated in some aspects because it's not something a person can hide, like sexuality. With race bending, as with sexuality bending and gender bending, it has become a tool used by cooperation's to garner positive publicity. (No company would change a characters race, gender or sexuality if someone hadn't convince them it would make the company money, that extends to creating new characters as well BTW, it's all for money in the eyes of the cooperation.).

    I think it all depends on how the person responsible for the new status quo of the character handles it. If they approach the change with sincerity, than I approve of it.

    These changes are usually more apparent in comic-to-movie adaptations anyway, in which case it is providing more job opportunities of a wider verity for minorities in the entertainment industry. And a wider audience demographic watches movies than reads comics.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 04-27-2021 at 09:47 AM.

  6. #6
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    26,621

    Default

    Making Alan Scott gay made a lot more sense than when Marvel did it with Iceman. Homosexuality was illegal in the US until the 1970s, so it makes sense that someone who was born 100 years ago would stay in the closet and even get married and have kids. I think he probably waited for his wife Molly to die before coming out to his kids. Compare that to Iceman, who would've been born about 30 years ago and had a number of girlfriends before being outed by his telepathic teammate Marvel Girl. Had the X-Men been time displaced from the 1960s it might have made sense, but the teenage version of him was only from around 2000 (bear in mind the story was published in 2014), so there would've been no reason to pretend to be straight.
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  7. #7
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    13,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Making Alan Scott gay made a lot more sense than when Marvel did it with Iceman. Homosexuality was illegal in the US until the 1970s, so it makes sense that someone who was born 100 years ago would stay in the closet and even get married and have kids. I think he probably waited for his wife Molly to die before coming out to his kids. Compare that to Iceman, who would've been born about 30 years ago and had a number of girlfriends before being outed by his telepathic teammate Marvel Girl. Had the X-Men been time displaced from the 1960s it might have made sense, but the teenage version of him was only from around 2000 (bear in mind the story was published in 2014), so there would've been no reason to pretend to be straight.
    There are still some people today who are in the closet, so it wouldn't be that unusual even in this day and age. The thing that annoys me is when a character you know is straight, either by internal monologue and/or actions, is now completely gay. That's just stupid writing, IMO.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

    Pre-CBR Reboot Join Date: 10-17-2010

    Pre-CBR Reboot Posts: 4,362

    THE CBR COMMUNITY STANDARDS & RULES ~ So... what's your excuse now?

  8. #8
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    15,225

    Default

    It often seems like they just throw a dart and whichever character they hit that's the one they select for diversity.

    Alan Scott doesn't make much sense to me having read his original stories. At a stretch, pan-sexual maybe, but not gay. Now Al Pratt that's someone I can see as being a closeted gay male in the 1940s. I don't object to it when there's some basis for it, but it's just so random.

    They seem to take any red-headed character and say now you're a person of colour. What is it about being "ginger" that gives them this notion, I wonder.
    🇨🇦
    [Exit, pursued
    by a bear.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    809

    Default

    I'm fine with it as long it is still the character that I know and love.

    When they attempted to reboot and racebend Wally, nothing about him was Wally except his name.

    Changing sexualities is great, especially if it is a reboot of the character. Either you can go the Alan Scott way where he was closeted, still loved his wife and had kids but wasnt IN IN love with her. Or say if they rebooted Barry where he was gay....I would be fine with them genderbending Iris into a male.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    They seem to take any red-headed character and say now you're a person of colour. What is it about being "ginger" that gives them this notion, I wonder.
    It is funny/weird that red heads are most commonly race bent.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    There are still some people today who are in the closet, so it wouldn't be that unusual even in this day and age. The thing that annoys me is when a character you know is straight, either by internal monologue and/or actions, is now completely gay. That's just stupid writing, IMO.
    Yeah, bisexuality is still very commonly erased and ignored no matter the medium. We could definitely use more bi characters that actually act on it.

  10. #10
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    13,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Yeah, bisexuality is still very commonly erased and ignored no matter the medium. We could definitely use more bi characters that actually act on it.
    Right. Making Willow on Buffy the Vampire Slayer bi would have been perfectly fine, but to have her not being attracted to men (and especially Zander) anymore was just asinine.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

    Pre-CBR Reboot Join Date: 10-17-2010

    Pre-CBR Reboot Posts: 4,362

    THE CBR COMMUNITY STANDARDS & RULES ~ So... what's your excuse now?

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    27,820

    Default

    I'm fine with it on a case by case basis. Like most things, some instances will be better executed than others.

  12. #12
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    13,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm fine with it on a case by case basis. Like most things, some instances will be better executed than others.
    I don't have a problem with changing a character's race or sexuality during a reboot myself, FWIW.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

    Pre-CBR Reboot Join Date: 10-17-2010

    Pre-CBR Reboot Posts: 4,362

    THE CBR COMMUNITY STANDARDS & RULES ~ So... what's your excuse now?

  13. #13
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12,906

    Default

    Case by case basis, and I'm way more forgiving of it in live action castings. Because it's giving a real life flesh and blood person an opportunity they might not otherwise have.

    Like I wouldn't want Black Canary to be made black in the comics, but I really liked Jurnee Smollett-Bell in the role and am kinda bumped we won't likely see her again.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Right. Making Willow on Buffy the Vampire Slayer bi would have been perfectly fine, but to have her not being attracted to men (and especially Zander) anymore was just asinine.
    I think that was a case of it coming out in the 90s/early 2000s and bi-siexuality not being taken as seriously back then. It seems you were either gay or straight, but couldn't be attracted to both sexes. So in their minds if they wanted Willow to be in a romance with a woman, she had to be gay. It's probably no coincidence that Oz is rarely ever mentioned again in the last three seasons. To me though, it would have made more sense for Willow to be bi, or for her to articulate how she maybe misunderstood her feelings for Xander and Oz (and her crush on Giles, and she did swoon over Angel a bit along with Buffy) before realizing she was gay. But they never really did that.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Writers have to reckon with the fact that they are reproducing a genre defined largely by straight white male characters. It can't just be ignored, even if I love those characters.
    This is the truth.

    What it is is not what it must be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I prefer when existing characters of color who are authentically conceived to be of color are given the spotlight. It's better for everyone.

    New characters are also welcome. The counter-argument to that is that new or legacy characters routinely get ignored or shuffled back in favor of the originals, and there is a point there. You'd be hard-pressed to argue that a brand new character will ever challenge the trinity in stature, but that doesn't mean they can't become wildly popular.

    Where any bending does occur, I'd rather it be very limited, selective, and that it make internal sense for a character. Revealing a character with opposite-sex partners to be bisexual, or a character with no previously depicted romantic partners whatsoever to be gay, or a presumably white character to have an alternative ancestry that still tracks with their origin, can work without disrupting the story. But often the approach is half-baked and feels forced. Nobody likes that.
    Unfortunately, there is another counter-argument: DC was actively discriminating.

    We know DC was a hostile employer for women and black employees. We also know they discriminated against their own characters! For example, we were not supposed to like Impulse! His comic was not meant to last! (We did. It did).

    What were we supposed to like? I guess whatever character a senior writer was penning at that time...

    Under these circumstances, I do not see how new characters or new ideas or new voices were going to have a chance at success.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm fine with it on a case by case basis. Like most things, some instances will be better executed than others.
    I don't have a problem with changing a character's race or sexuality during a reboot myself, FWIW.
    Agreed. Agreed.

    New Earth; New JLA...fresh start for everyone!

    This would be a perfect opportunity.

  15. #15

    Default

    Comics are too white and too straight and too entrenched in the old order for the "just create new characters with the proper race/sexuality/whatever and hope they get to the level of the preexisting characters" process to work. So just do it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •