Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[Captain Nostalgia]

It may not be the most optimistic or brightest storyline, but it's realistic. I know a number of gay men who came out after becoming husbands and fathers. One of my exes is a father, he and his wife were married 13 years before he admitted who he was and came out. Thankfully he and his (now) adult daughter have a good relationship.

One of my closest friends (who unfortunately was killed in an accident 10 years ago - I still miss him) had also divorced his wife when their daughter was 8.

It happens. Gay men sometimes feel that they have to live up to the expectations of their families, and that means marriage and kids. It's happening less as time goes on, and the younger generations are more open and accepting of LGBT people, but it still happens.

Fair enough, I understand where your coming from, but I sympathize with Alan Scott fans who were upset because it significantly altered his continuity and felt political at the time.

Their objections to the change were not the result of political beliefs, but continuity. I simply came in to point that out. I'm sure the majority of them are quite supportive of same sex couples in comics otherwise.

[Powerboy]

It depends on the situation for me. If it's a true restart, I don't have a problem with race changing or orientation changing a character. Nick Fury is now Samuel L. Jackson in the movies and was in the Ultimate Universe. As far as I know, the original Fury in the 616 universe was still white.

But my understanding is that Alan Scott is supposed to be the same character whose adventures we could read in comics published in the 1940s.

I get that the problem is that someone becomes a very different character once you do that. Even if they were careful to make sure everything from before is intact, it generates a feeling of the same character but not the same character at all.

I don't really care with Scott because he's not a big character for me other than that he's the first published GL. I do have the two volumes of his earliest adventures but he's small potatoes and that's probably why they chose him instead of far more prominent characters.

So it's a catch-22 for me. If it's a restart or new setting, change the characters however you wish and hope it works. Fury works great both ways. It's only trying to retro a character that already exists that is problematic. For instance, when they brought back what was allegedly the Golden Age Superman from the Crisis, I hated that rewrite of history where he suddenly is totally against killing and admonishes the Post-Crisis Superman when an authentic GA Superman would wonder why the modern Superman doesn't just take enemy soldiers that are torturing our soldiers and toss them over the horizon.

[mathew101281]

Depends on whether changing the character fundamentally changes the themes and basic premise of the character. In order to decide if changing the character really works, you have to ask yourself what is this character is really about. A lot of characters are really neutral when you break them down to their fundamental elements. there is nothing about Hal Jordan's backstory that mandates that he needs to be white. But I'd argue that white is fundamental to Batman's story. Bruce Wayne isn't just rich, he's old money, the kind of money that heavily implies someone of European heritage.

I think we need to separate what we are accustomed to from what is central to the character. In short what parts of a character are flexible enough to change without essentially creating a completely different character.

[Captain Nostalgia]

It depends on the situation for me. If it's a true restart, I don't have a problem with race changing or orientation changing a character. Nick Fury is now Samuel L. Jackson in the movies and was in the Ultimate Universe. As far as I know, the original Fury in the 616 universe was still white.

But my understanding is that Alan Scott is supposed to be the same character whose adventures we could read in comics published in the 1940s.

I get that the problem is that someone becomes a very different character once you do that. Even if they were careful to make sure everything from before is intact, it generates a feeling of the same character but not the same character at all.

I don't really care with Scott because he's not a big character for me other than that he's the first published GL. I do have the two volumes of his earliest adventures but he's small potatoes and that's probably why they chose him instead of far more prominent characters.

So it's a catch-22 for me. If it's a restart or new setting, change the characters however you wish and hope it works. Fury works great both ways. It's only trying to retro a character that already exists that is problematic. For instance, when they brought back what was allegedly the Golden Age Superman from the Crisis, I hated that rewrite of history where he suddenly is totally against killing and admonishes the Post-Crisis Superman when an authentic GA Superman would wonder why the modern Superman doesn't just take enemy soldiers that are torturing our soldiers and toss them over the horizon.

I think DC needs to be sensitive to the fact that people don't like changes that significantly alter a characters appearance or personality, that doesn't have to do with any specific political feelings at all.

(It can be hair color, a costume change, body weight, even facial hair if it's a hallmark)

I'm more lenient with tv shows/movies because I understand there not specifically aimed at comic fans....but man....

Oliver Queen is one of my favourite heroes, and I couldn't get into the Arrow show, not just because he didn't act like Ollie, but because he didn't have the signature goatee....it actually bothered me that much. That's not Ollie, my brain kept saying.

[Primal Slayer]

Arrow was a glorified Batman rip off and the showrunner hated any kind of expectation of their characters having to stand up to their comic counterparts. I like my adaptations to look like their comic counterparts to a degree but as long as they give me a good story I can look past certain changes but WB in general seems more ashamed of these characters coming from comics compared to their counterpart who embrace it.

[finfan]

Unfortunately DC or their masters just use tokenism. Why make a third-tier character gay just to score some points with social media? Ideally it would be Batman as bi-sexual or Superman as gay? Of course, we can't touch those icons can we now? Ho-hum DC!

And naysayers, the Alan Scott of today is not the same as the Alan Scott of the 40's, nor is Superman the same character he was 10 years ago.

[Will Evans]

Unfortunately DC or their masters just use tokenism. Why make a third-tier character gay just to score some points with social media? Ideally it would be Batman as bi-sexual or Superman as gay? Of course, we can't touch those icons can we now? Ho-hum DC!

And naysayers, the Alan Scott of today is not the same as the Alan Scott of the 40's, nor is Superman the same character he was 10 years ago.

Midnighter and Apollo are the gay “Batman and Superman.” There no need to make Bruce and Clark gay.

[jpmst17]

I'm not really for it. I think there are a ton of great characters of color in the DC universe. I pretty much buy anything Mr. Terrific is in. i think changing race is pandering to some extent. As far as sexuality is concerned, i'm not for that either. I'm fine with characters that are created gay, like bunker or midnighter, but the way marvel botched Iceman really left a bad taste in my mouth

[Dred]

Midnighter and Apollo are the gay “Batman and Superman.” There no need to make Bruce and Clark gay.

This does not make sense. The entire point is diversifying your line. It's about screen time, not "Is there a gay pastiche of this character around?" Midnighter and Apollo aren't relevant. It's not about "need." You can make a gay version of any character that you rarely use and that wouldn't serve anything.

[John Venus]

We got a JSA movie and Alan was absent from it. Wonder Woman was there but they focus on her male lover instead of her female relationships.

[PCN24454]

This does not make sense. The entire point is diversifying your line. It's about screen time, not "Is there a gay pastiche of this character around?" Midnighter and Apollo aren't relevant. It's not about "need." You can make a gay version of any character that you rarely use and that wouldn't serve anything.

Isn't the answer to use them more?

[CellarDweller]

Oliver Queen is one of my favourite heroes, and I couldn't get into the Arrow show, not just because he didn't act like Ollie, but because he didn't have the signature goatee....it actually bothered me that much. That's not Ollie, my brain kept saying.

Interesting. I do agree with you, that some fans strongly identify with certain characters, and how they look and act. I guess my brain isn't wired that way.

my childhood faves (and I still enjoy them) were the Wonder Twins. When they were adapted to Smallville, they looked nothing like their appearances on the cartoon, and I thought the change was interesting, regarding how they were dressed, and how they acted. However, had the show opted to go with actors who closer resembled Zan & Jayna (dark hair, a darker complexion) that would've been great as well.

[Vakanai]

This does not make sense. The entire point is diversifying your line. It's about screen time, not "Is there a gay pastiche of this character around?" Midnighter and Apollo aren't relevant. It's not about "need." You can make a gay version of any character that you rarely use and that wouldn't serve anything.

I think the problem is you're still in the old school pre-MCU Guardians of the Galaxy mindset - some characters aren't "relevant" because they're not Batman and Superman? Rocket and Groot are household names. This idea that we need to diversify the line by changing the "important" characters like Batman and Superman because guys like Blue Beetle or Icon or Midnighter don't sell is just plain wrong in this day and age. It's been proven that if you respect the comic book elements and make a quality lighthearted cool CGI action film it'll do well. So we don't need to race swap anyone or change an old icon to be gay - we can just push the pre-existing POC and LGBTQ characters and make them icons. Marvel's done it, DC/WB should follow suit and do it, damn it all! My interest in a black Superman is nonexistent - I'm feeling wary of this obvious stunt. But if they had announced a Steel or Vixen movie? Now that'd get my attention.

[Robanker]

We got a JSA movie and Alan was absent from it. Wonder Woman was there but they focus on her male lover instead of her female relationships.

They needed her love interest to die to motivate Barry to proposing to his (as is Bomer's DC animated tradition). Steve's a black belt at dying. He was the only choice.

[Johnrevenge]

They needed her love interest to die to motivate Barry to proposing to his (as is Bomer's DC animated tradition). Steve's a black belt at dying. He was the only choice.

Steve Trevor is the Sean Bean's of DC nowadays xd.