Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[godisawesome]

Because it's the Ship of Theseus.

Which one is the real Tim? The one made with all the old parts or the one made with all the new parts?

In this hypothetical, it would come down to how successful the retconned race change was. Part of the reason outside-media stories have some greater flexibility with race is because we’ve seen more than one be an otherwise direct adaptation, with the real cultural changes of the race-change being either more subtextual or malleable to the character’s portrayal. However, we have seen a few that have exposed how you can either screw up an attempt to address the change so badly that neither the old fans or the target demographic are happy - New 52 Wally West being a prominent example.

I’m a white guy, so I have limits on how well I could see Tim getting a race change in comics. But to me? If he remained a humble, nerdy kid from an upper middle class family, with a recognizable characterization and series of adventures and relationships, and his tenure as Robin occurred while he still lived with a dad who acted similarly to Pre-Flashpoint Jack Drake, he would more satisfactorily be a “real” Tim Drake than the New 52 one. And I feel like all that could be maintained while someone with more real-world authority than me incorporated the cultural experiences that would differ between a black kid and a white kid in America.

...I will say that I feel pretty bluntly like, if I were in charge of adaptations, I would avoid making Jason black unless a black writer I trusted well wanted to. Jason feels like he’d fall squarely into the expected racist pitfalls and stereotypes you’d expect because of his already “poor street kid” origin and more “thug”-like reputation compared to the rest of the family.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Because it's the Ship of Theseus.

Which one is the real Tim? The one made with all the old parts or the one made with all the new parts?

Very true. But IMO, there are limits to that as well.

When they tried to introduce Wally as Wallace West, that was a bridge too far for me because he didn't have the look, backstory or characterization of the Wally I read and loved.

Mind though, that is a rare case

[Aahz]

...I will say that I feel pretty bluntly like, if I were in charge of adaptations, I would avoid making Jason black unless a black writer I trusted well wanted to. Jason feels like he’d fall squarely into the expected racist pitfalls and stereotypes you’d expect because of his already “poor street kid” origin and more “thug”-like reputation compared to the rest of the family.

With how often the writers on DC books change having one writer who could do it well wouldn't be enough on the long run.

Jason is imo really a character were they should avoid any kind of swap of his race or sexuality.

[Dred]

Very true. But IMO, there are limits to that as well.

When they tried to introduce Wally as Wallace West, that was a bridge too far for me because he didn't have the look, backstory or characterization of the Wally I read and loved.

Mind though, that is a rare case

He could've been white and that entire premise was gonna sink because Wally is less defined as his time as Barry's sidekick and more as his own hero these days. But the changes they did make were super freaking racist once they changed him to being black. Still there for Wallace but they just plain ignore his first 3 years of existence because it's so trash for that reason.

[Gitagon]

Rebooted characters can indeed fail even when they stay the same race. Just look at Barr Torr for example (Don't know if I got his name right).

[scary harpy]

https://www.cbr.com/warner-bros-dc-b...-20th-century/

Warner Bros' Black Superman Will Be Kal-El, Not Val-Zod

[Restingvoice]

https://www.cbr.com/warner-bros-dc-b...-20th-century/

Warner Bros' Black Superman Will Be Kal-El, Not Val-Zod

Of course because they won't be able to generate clicks if it's just Val-Zod

[4sake Baned]

True.

It won't make him automatically popular again.

It may make DC want to use this character again. I cannot promise this.

I know if we don't try something new, DC will repeat old mistakes.



All history is restored somewhere in the Mega-Multi-Omni-verse. Where? Your guess is as good as mine.

Tim being biracial shouldn't affect his history. DC probably should have made Tim biracial to begin with instead of just a replacement for Jason.

I agree the books with Tim have been bad...but we cannot do much about this other than not buying a bad book. This why I buy a only 2 comics now...one is with Batman and Scooby Doo.

And what does not buying a book get us?

A cancelled book and no book with Tim.

I think this creates a repeating of cycle of unhappiness for us readers.

I'm hoping with this small change...maybe...DC will revitalize this character. I hope.

Don't want to pretend or ignore. That's the point.





Tim is redundant.

He is a black-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian Third Robin created to replace Jason who replaced Grayson. By the by, I like Tim. Doesn't change facts.

Tim as a POC Robin would be ground-breaking. Duke is not a Robin. I don't count We Are Robin.

It's good that Duke has his own identity. DC has too many Robins and don't know what to do.

Tim Drake as a POC might revitalize this character.

IMHO, he always should of been a POC. I can only imagine how different a POC Robin would have been in the 1990s.

Of course, it would have to been done the right way. I thinking a new Earth in the Omni-Multi-Mega-Verse.

Can’t agree more..Imo making Tim mixed there was little to no chance him be used in any meaningful way if at all in love action.. He extra redundant in comics & would be seen as even more so in tv & Flim. You don’t need Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Tim & Damien all looking like clones of each other with somewhat Different haircuts in comics or cartoons or tv or films.. There few mixed characters in comics making tv mix doesn’t take way The overpopulated amount of full white heroes.. Tim & Damien can both be mifed.. Tim can half Black or half wateva & Duke can be Black not nor has it ever should be an either or situation to people saying oh Jess you Duke.. Especially visually you can show the difference between a completely black person and a mix person in comics or tv or etc..

A mixed race dude who clearly leans more on the white side in terms of features and skin color is suddenly black when he is cast as Tim Drake. Is it really that hard for Americans to let go of the one drop rule.

Anyway, I'm team Duke too. No need to racebend these characters when all media clearly does not reflect that.

Even for Iris, she's black in the TV show and movies but still her original race in the comics. Same for Aquaman, Momoa is actually half-white and is biracial so you would think it would be easier to pull that off in the comics. But again, the one drop rule only works in one direction and Aquaman has to be "pure" white for some reason otherwise people will start saying he was race-bent. While Momoa's version is only recognized as Polynesian despite being half white both for the actor and character in the DCEU. Basically, DC can't even let comic Aquaman be 50% white, he must be 100% Aryan, or else! And this is all despite a billion dollar film. They copied Momoa's tattoo though but tossed any actual authenticity out the window.

So personally, I just prefer actual POC characters being adapted on the big screen. Not characters whose onscreen look will never be represented on the page.

It’s hilariously sad is what is.. Like mixed Tim & Duke being Black is/look exactly the same in to many ppl mines lol

Also, am I alone in thinking that while Jim Gordon having brown skin is great, Alfred should under no circumstances be anything but white?

Part of Halpern’s characters being British but I definitely would not want to see him at anything other than a white guy..

[Alpha]

Part of Halpern’s characters being British but I definitely would not want to see him at anything other than a white guy..

Halpern? Who is Halpern?

[achilles]

https://www.cbr.com/warner-bros-dc-b...-20th-century/

Warner Bros' Black Superman Will Be Kal-El, Not Val-Zod

I'm surprised no one has complained about "cultural appropriation" in racebending Supes.

[Alpha]

I'm surprised no one has complained about "cultural appropriation" in racebending Supes.

What culture is being apropriated and by whom?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm surprised no one has complained about "cultural appropriation" in racebending Supes.

Taking from the majority isn't the same as taking from a minority, just sayin';

[Alpha]

Taking from the majority isn't the same as taking from a minority, just sayin';

And Superman isn't "european american culture" and the producers of this film are white so it's white people born in the american states making a film from "white culture" (dumb term).

[Tofali]

I'm surprised no one has complained about "cultural appropriation" in racebending Supes.

because they have a better argument to make than claim cultural appropriation of an Alien

[achilles]

because there are a better arguments to make than claim cultural appropriation of an Alien

Better smetter, this one is funnier.