Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[Powerboy]

I have to admit I am not a fan of it at all.

I thought making Alan Scott gay is pointless. I get that it was entirely possible, and if he WAS he WOULD hide it due to the times (and homosexuality being illegal) but it just rubbed me the wrong way.
I liked the dynamic with Alan and Todd. Now that is COMPLETELY thrown out the window.

I believe making new characters is a better way to go.
Vibe, Jaime, Ryan Choi - all BRILLIANT additions to the DCU. Take the time to create well rounded characters and they'll stick.
Leave established characters alone.

For me, the problem with that was that you have to go back and rewrite the Golden Age stories for that to work. I'm bi so I have no problems with his being gay. It can work. But it seems pointless.

I also disliked Marvel making the Rawhide Kid gay but for a more obvious reason. Oh, I get it. He's the "Rawhide" Kid so, of course, he's gay because stereotypes.

[married guy]

For me, the problem with that was that you have to go back and rewrite the Golden Age stories for that to work. I'm bi so I have no problems with his being gay. It can work. But it seems pointless.

I also disliked Marvel making the Rawhide Kid gay but for a more obvious reason. Oh, I get it. He's the "Rawhide" Kid so, of course, he's gay because stereotypes.

I thought the Rawhide Kid thing was borderline offensive, and I'm a straight white guy!!
It had nothing to do with character development and stank of shock value bullshit. It was during the height of Jemas regime at Marvel when they were throwing all sorts of crap. (Trouble springs to mind...)

[Captain Nostalgia]

The problem with this thread is that it assumes that people are opposed to racial or gender changes as a result of politics....setting things up for a depressing SJW vs Trumper thread.

I don't have a problem with making any character same sex, or gender neutral (John Constantine is one of my favourite characters, he's bi and I couldn't care less) but when it wipes out continuity like it did with Alan Scott it's problematic, and generates a backlash.

Comic fans like continuity. They want the hero to look and behave the way they saw him the first time they laid eyes upon him as a teen or a kid.

I flipped out in a fit of rage in 2010 when the Green Arrow run shaved off his golden goatee!!! so imagine how I would feel if they changed his complexion, something we cannot genetically do in the real world, as of yet.

[Harpsikord]

I don't have a problem with making any character same sex, or gender neutral (John Constantine is one of my favourite characters, he's bi and I couldn't care less) but when it wipes out continuity like it did with Alan Scott it's problematic, and generates a backlash.

But did it though? Did it really? They've painstakingly went out of their way to make sure that Alan Scott was still married to his wife and still has his children, but he was gay that entire time, which is a very realistic development. Older men reveal that they're gay all the time after spending so much time in the closet, and Alan would've been raised in a time where a. being gay was illegal and b. it would've been through things like the AIDS crisis. It's natural that he wouldn't have wanted to come out until recently. It isn't like they took the Earth 2 Alan Scott and supplanted him into the main continuity, or just said that he was with a man the entire time. That continuity is still there. It hasn't been broken. It's just viewed in a different light.

[Nite-Wing]

The problem with this thread is that it assumes that people are opposed to racial or gender changes as a result of politics....setting things up for a depressing SJW vs Trumper thread.

I don't have a problem with making any character same sex, or gender neutral (John Constantine is one of my favourite characters, he's bi and I couldn't care less) but when it wipes out continuity like it did with Alan Scott it's problematic, and generates a backlash.

Comic fans like continuity. They want the hero to look and behave the way they saw him the first time they laid eyes upon him as a teen or a kid.

I flipped out in a fit of rage in 2010 when the Green Arrow run shaved off his golden goatee!!! so imagine how I would feel if they changed his complexion, something we cannot genetically do in the real world, as of yet.

It sets a very bad precedent when hardcore comic fans are outraged over the appearances of different characters
Its not hard to have the argument become about race when it is framed in such a manner
These stories are fantasy and can be interpreted and reinterpreted in any number of ways but its almost become common practice to whine when an artist makes a character tan or darker than typical because its not "accurate"

I've even begun to see this type of behavior in the fanart community throughout media so its not exclusive to the minority of comic fans

[Captain Nostalgia]

But did it though? Did it really? They've painstakingly went out of their way to make sure that Alan Scott was still married to his wife and still has his children, but he was gay that entire time, which is a very realistic development. Older men reveal that they're gay all the time after spending so much time in the closet, and Alan would've been raised in a time where a. being gay was illegal and b. it would've been through things like the AIDS crisis. It's natural that he wouldn't have wanted to come out until recently. It isn't like they took the Earth 2 Alan Scott and supplanted him into the main continuity, or just said that he was with a man the entire time. That continuity is still there. It hasn't been broken. It's just viewed in a different light.

It did because he appeared so happy during that period opening up presents with his grandkids with Jay Garret's family. He came off as the ultimate humble happy man, to think that he was miserable all that time and not truly in love because he was afraid to come out of the closet is yes....very sad, but its also sad for his poor wife who loved him and he was lying to all those years....that's an absolutely horrible story narrative, for what felt like a politically motivated change.

What's done is done, I'm not advocating for a reboot of Alan Scott's sexuality, and again, I could care less if they made half the DC roster same sex, so long as it doesn't interfere with continuity. (Superman wouldn't work because he's been with Lois all those years.)

Who I would absolutely love to see as a same sex couple would be Booster Gold and Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) perfect match!

It sets a very bad precedent when hardcore comic fans are outraged over the appearances of different characters
Its not hard to have the argument become about race when it is framed in such a manner
These stories are fantasy and can be interpreted and reinterpreted in any number of ways but its almost become common practice to whine when an artist makes a character tan or darker than typical because its not "accurate"

I've even begun to see this type of behavior in the fanart community throughout media so its not exclusive to the minority of comic fans

Tough! I would gander the majority of comic fans feel the way I do, it's not about politics, race or sexuality, it's about having the character we fell in love with at a young age look and act the same, and if there are drastic changes were not going to be happy campers, and it applies to art well outside of superheroes.

When the Boston Bruins attempted to replace their classic B jersey with that horrible Winnie the Pooh jersey there was outrage. I blew my top, what the hell is that, I want the classic Bruins jersey, it should never change!

[Alpha]

Who I would absolutely love to see as a same sex couple would be Booster Gold and Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) perfect match!

Dude that's a great idea!

[Captain Nostalgia]

Dude that's a great idea!

Thanks if they were to get a same sex writer who could inject some light hearted humour into it I'd be sold, running off to the nearest comic shop.

They are after all bro brothers....so why not go the extra step, they'd make the perfect DC couple!

[Harpsikord]

It did because he appeared so happy during that period opening up presents with his grandkids with Jay Garret's family. He came off as the ultimate humble happy man, to think that he was miserable all that time and not truly in love because he was afraid to come out of the closet is yes....very sad, but its also sad for his poor wife who loved him and he was lying to all those years....that's an absolutely horrible story narrative, for what felt like a politically motivated change.

But you're assuming that he was miserable the entire time and conflating the idea that sexual attraction has to be the same as romantic love. My grandfather was a gay man raised in a similar time as Alan Scott; he didn't come out of the closet until he was nearly forty, which to be fair is a significantly shorter time than for Alan, but to his death he always said that my grandmother was the only woman that he ever loved even if he didn't have a sexual attraction to her. I'm sure Alan did love his wife while she was alive. I'm sure he WAS happy in those moments with his family, because why wouldn't he be?

Him being gay and in the closet really doesn't change those scenes much.

[Captain Nostalgia]

But you're assuming that he was miserable the entire time and conflating the idea that sexual attraction has to be the same as romantic love. My grandfather was a gay man raised in a similar time as Alan Scott; he didn't come out of the closet until he was nearly forty, which to be fair is a significantly shorter time than for Alan, but to his death he always said that my grandmother was the only woman that he ever loved even if he didn't have a sexual attraction to her. I'm sure Alan did love his wife while she was alive. I'm sure he WAS happy in those moments with his family, because why wouldn't he be?

Him being gay and in the closet really doesn't change those scenes much.

Fair enough, if that's the way you read it, they were obviously attracted to each other on a sexual level to engage in reproduction, and I can't help that think that she would have been deeply hurt on some level once she found out. Technically he is leaving her because he's been trying to live a lie. I don't think that's the brightest most optimistic storyline, I think having Alan straight but showing love and affection towards Obsidian once his son had the courage to tell him he was gay would send out a much more stronger positive message.


Once again, If DC's roster was half same sex it wouldn't bother me one bit, it's the 21st century, so I don't understand why someone would take issue with it from a political perspective unless your living in rural Alabama.

However the switch over has to be done in a manner that doesn't dramatically change the characters continuity. Superman wouldn't work because of Lois. Green Arrow wouldn't work because of Black Canary, and in my opinion Alan Scott was not a good choice because he was one of DC's family grandfathers with established children, but a gay Batman, I can work with that, wouldn't bother me one bit.

[Vakanai]

but a gay Batman, I can work with that, wouldn't bother me one bit.

It would me - I'm a Bat/Cat shipper!

[Eskana]

Who I would absolutely love to see as a same sex couple would be Booster Gold and Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) perfect match!

Lol please no.... I love seeing best friends too much. Guy/guy, girl/girl, guy/girl... it seems that no matter what the media, people always see two people and ship it. But I love the dynamic between two people who care about it each other and would do anything for each other but not in a romantic way. Sherlock and Watson, Aubrey and Maturin, Thor and Loki (okay, that last one is a bit different).... no matter what, every time there's a brother or best-friend relationship, people want it to be something else. Is there REALLY another friendship in comics that has been depicted and developed as much as Blue and Gold? Why can't two guys just be best friends?
There already ARE gay couples...

Anyway, just my opinion...

[Primal Slayer]

Lol please no.... I love seeing best friends too much. Guy/guy, girl/girl, guy/girl... it seems that no matter what the media, people always see two people and ship it. But I love the dynamic between two people who care about it each other and would do anything for each other but not in a romantic way. Sherlock and Watson, Aubrey and Maturin, Thor and Loki (okay, that last one is a bit different).... no matter what, every time there's a brother or best-friend relationship, people want it to be something else. Is there REALLY another friendship in comics that has been depicted and developed as much as Blue and Gold? Why can't two guys just be best friends?
There already ARE gay couples...

Anyway, just my opinion...

Sure, people love a good ship. No denying that but 99% of them are just that, just ships that people wish would happen but never do. How many gay couples does DC have? M/M wise I can really only think of 1 and they are rarely seen. If BB/BG ever were to become romantic....I wouldn't oppose it but I dont necessarily need it to happen.

We have Superman/Batman
GL/GA
Tim/Conner
Dick/Wally

[Dred]

Tim and Conner probably have the most gay shipping of any male pair short of Bruce and Clark.

[CellarDweller]

Fair enough, if that's the way you read it, they were obviously attracted to each other on a sexual level to engage in reproduction, and I can't help that think that she would have been deeply hurt on some level once she found out. Technically he is leaving her because he's been trying to live a lie. I don't think that's the brightest most optimistic storyline, I think having Alan straight but showing love and affection towards Obsidian once his son had the courage to tell him he was gay would send out a much more stronger positive message.


Once again, If DC's roster was half same sex it wouldn't bother me one bit, it's the 21st century, so I don't understand why someone would take issue with it from a political perspective unless your living in rural Alabama.

However the switch over has to be done in a manner that doesn't dramatically change the characters continuity. Superman wouldn't work because of Lois. Green Arrow wouldn't work because of Black Canary, and in my opinion Alan Scott was not a good choice because he was one of DC's family grandfathers with established children, but a gay Batman, I can work with that, wouldn't bother me one bit.

It may not be the most optimistic or brightest storyline, but it's realistic. I know a number of gay men who came out after becoming husbands and fathers. One of my exes is a father, he and his wife were married 13 years before he admitted who he was and came out. Thankfully he and his (now) adult daughter have a good relationship.

One of my closest friends (who unfortunately was killed in an accident 10 years ago - I still miss him) had also divorced his wife when their daughter was 8.

It happens. Gay men sometimes feel that they have to live up to the expectations of their families, and that means marriage and kids. It's happening less as time goes on, and the younger generations are more open and accepting of LGBT people, but it still happens.