Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[Tofali]

I know exotic is a cringy word. I'm mixed race. But it's the best way I can describe Starfire. A white actress would have been equally unappealing for me.

I have to cackle with your use of the word exotic and the ambiguous looking woman you used to explain what you meant. The woman that was cast to play Starfire is exotic and your example is not.

exotic in this context really depends on what you are familiar with or how foreign someone is to you.

[Alpha]

I have to cackle with your use of the word exotic and the ambiguous looking woman you used to explain what you meant. The woman that was cast to play Starfire is exotic and your example is not.

exotic in this context really depends on what you are familiar with or how foreign someone is to you.

Yes it's true and I admited it. But the "ambiguous looking woman" like you describe her is exactly the type for Starfire. Someone with characteristics not easily found. A green eyed woman with very light brown skin and wavy hair, like the photo I posted.

[Mistah K88]

You still had a faction that only saw a black woman and that was all they needed.

If it was only about her being orange-it never would have gotten to toxic levels like it later became. Same with Michael B Jordan in Fantastic Four and Finn in Star Wars. ANd eventually Falcon as Cap America.

Any time it's black folks there seems to be an issue.

Finn's the poster boy of how well "just create a new character" goes sometimes. A nameless stormtrooper being black was enough to set people off. I'm actually surprised Miles Morales was able to do as well as he has at Marvel.

I remember people thinking that makeup to make Starfire orange would be easier to make a white person orange than make a dark skinned person orange (thinking it dyes the skin rather than is stuff put on top of your skin...yes people are THAT stupid, it wasn't about orange it was about black)

[Tofali]

Yes it's true and I admited it. But the "ambiguous looking woman" like you describe her is exactly the type for Starfire. Someone with characteristics not easily found. A green eyed woman with very light brown skin and wavy hair, like the photo I posted.

"Not easily found" Again It depends on where you are I guess.

[Alpha]

"Not easily found" Again It depends on where you are I guess.

Light brown skin women with green eyes? Is there a secret city where they hide these women? I want the coordinates dammit!

[John Venus]

OG Starfire had shades of the 'Spicy Latina' trope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CviaikflJw

Watch the vid and count many of the tropes the original NTT Starfire ticks off. Don't know if it's a good or bad decision to not cast a latino actress in the role.

Either way, Starfire and Raven are the most logical characters to race bend for adaptations.

[Harpsikord]

Light brown skin women with green eyes? Is there a secret city where they hide these women? I want the coordinates dammit!

You're limiting the idea of exoticism to the color of her skin and green eyes as opposed to her actual features, which are incredibly Caucasian; if this woman or someone similar to her were to play Starfire there'd be nothing about her that sets her apart from a crowd in comparison to Anna Diop, who has her dark skin and her Africanized facial features setting her apart.

Also just the very definition of forcing or expecting a person to appear 'exotic' is already icky in itself.

OG Starfire had shades of the 'Spicy Latina' trope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CviaikflJw

Watch the vid and count many of the tropes the original NTT Starfire ticks off. Don't know if it's a good or bad decision to not cast a latino actress in the role.

Either way, Starfire and Raven are the most logical characters to race bend for adaptations.

Most of the classic, most popular Titans don't 'need' to be white if any of them do. Gar is green, Donna is an Amazon, Dick isn't white in comics and shouldn't be white in adaptations in the first place, Garth is often seen as Asian coded, the most popular version of Wally West (that people know as Wally West) is black. The only one that might need to be white is Roy and that's to avoid dangerous stereotypes.

[Gitagon]

Yeah, the Titans don't have to be white at all especially for Raven and Starfire who aren't even fully human and have grey and orange skin.

DC quickly tossed Dick's heritage right out the window when it was time to cast a white guy.

Roy had Native American ties but ultimately he's still a white guy.

And while many are only talking about race, in terms of sexuality, there's tons of characters who don't have to be straight either. Unfortunately, DC and many people in general only seems to operate on binaries of straight and gay. Nothing in between. It would be great to have more bi or pan characters like Constantine. I thought this made more sense too for Kaldur but it seems the comics went their own way compared to Young Justice. We know he was genuinely in love with Tula from his own perspective (unless he was straight up tricking himself) so it would have made more sense for him to be a bi character.

Also out of most "so called" bi characters, it isn't a coincidence that most are women. Look a Batman's cast for example: all the 3 Gotham City Sirens are Bi yet I can't think of a male Bi character of the same level in Bat books despite DC pumping them out in droves.

I don't think the Superman cast has any prominent LGBT character either. Same for Supergirl, that's probably why the show had to create new LGBT characters themselves.

As for WW as the last part of the Trinity, most of the stuff with her or LGBT Amazons is mostly limited to vague statements. Sometimes stuff like Hippolyta x Phillipus get outright erased, and even then I don't think they did as much as kiss. As for Diana herself, I don't think anyone who doesn't follow this stuff closely even knows she's bi. It was basically mentioned once then dropped out the window.

Flash, Green Lantern, basically all main DC franchises are like that. Mostly white, mostly straight. LGBT characters are basically relegated to side titles.

[Alpha]

Yes we know. I'm saying DC will eventually declare Diana as Bisexual and have her be in a prominent romance with another woman. Not out of goodwill, but out of financial necessity.

[Alpha]

You're limiting the idea of exoticism to the color of her sin and green eyes as opposed to her actual features, which are incredibly Caucasian; if this woman or someone similar to her were to play Starfire there'd be nothing about her that sets her apart from a crowd in comparison to Anna Diop, who has her dark skin and her Africanized facial features setting her apart.

Also just the very definition of forcing or expecting a person to appear 'exotic' is already icky in itself.

You really wanna have this discussipn? I have nothing against Anna Diop or the producers of the show. I'm saying that Starfiee has this really iconic look that made her into a mesmerizing figure. The physical features that would have the same effect would to me be those of the woman in the photo because it's such a rare combination and because it resembles Starfire. Light brown is very similar to orange. Bright green eyes just like the comics and animation. I don't care that they cast Anna Diop, but it's not nearly as visually interesting as if they had cast someone with the features in the photo. If they had cast a white woman it would have been equally unappealing. I'm not protesting the show or the role or the actress. Just saying it's less appealing. Not every is trying to pick a fight.

[Rend20]

the most popular version of Wally West (that people know as Wally West) is black.

Can I ask what point you're trying to make with this example?

Outside adaptations don't really care much about characterizations/stories from the comics and the majority of viewers are just going to accept whatever because that's what they know. On the show, Wally is Iris' long-lost brother, has a dead mom, has Joe for a father, became Kid Flash around 20, and a lot of other non-race related changes to the point that version and his story is radically different from the comics.

So no matter the ethnicity, I wouldn't really call the show's version comic accurate. Now it can still be successful because the majority of the audience doesn't know anything else, but I'm not sure anyone else is really debating that?

[BatmanJones]

There are still some people today who are in the closet, so it wouldn't be that unusual even in this day and age. The thing that annoys me is when a character you know is straight, either by internal monologue and/or actions, is now completely gay. That's just stupid writing, IMO.

Is there a gay way of thinking or behaving? Surely you mean something other than “talking gay” or limp wrists. What does gay “by his actions” mean outside of one’s sex life, which we wouldn’t have seen in old comics anyway?

[Aahz]

the most popular version of Wally West (that people know as Wally West) is black.

The YJ version is iirc also pretty popular.

[BatmanJones]

It often seems like they just throw a dart and whichever character they hit that's the one they select for diversity.

Alan Scott doesn't make much sense to me having read his original stories. At a stretch, pan-sexual maybe, but not gay. Now Al Pratt that's someone I can see as being a closeted gay male in the 1940s. I don't object to it when there's some basis for it, but it's just so random.

They seem to take any red-headed character and say now you're a person of colour. What is it about being "ginger" that gives them this notion, I wonder.

I don’t think it’s random. It’s a far different thing thing for a man that’s married with kids to come out of the closet than one that seems to make more sense because we know less about him.

I grew up with kids whose fathers were coming out of the closet after having lived in it for most of their adult lives right into middle age, filled with shame and self-loathing, but also filled with love of their families. That’s not even about representation, it’s about telling an interesting and important story. It’s heavy and it’s real and it’s emotionally complex and it’s filled with ethical dilemmas like so many great stories are. And it’s very different than just learning something new about an old character.

I actually think making Al Pratt gay would be way more random and way, way less interesting.

[John Venus]

You're limiting the idea of exoticism to the color of her skin and green eyes as opposed to her actual features, which are incredibly Caucasian; if this woman or someone similar to her were to play Starfire there'd be nothing about her that sets her apart from a crowd in comparison to Anna Diop, who has her dark skin and her Africanized facial features setting her apart.

Also just the very definition of forcing or expecting a person to appear 'exotic' is already icky in itself.

Plus, Anna's face is a 1:1 match for comic book Starfire:



And under the right production can look like a comic accurate Starfire:

Most of the classic, most popular Titans don't 'need' to be white if any of them do. Gar is green, Donna is an Amazon, Dick isn't white in comics and shouldn't be white in adaptations in the first place, Garth is often seen as Asian coded, the most popular version of Wally West (that people know as Wally West) is black. The only one that might need to be white is Roy and that's to avoid dangerous stereotypes.

No disagreements there except for maybe the Wally part. The JLU and YJ versions of Wally West still has a lingering fan base.

I actually think making Al Pratt gay would be way more random and way, way less interesting.

Plus Al is a minor character in the grand scheme of things. Alan Scott is a member of the JSA trinity and associated with the GL franchise even though he's not technically a Corps members. Making him gay is a much bigger deal since he's a character you can't ignore easily.