Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[Aahz]

But then again, if you are adapting, say, the Flash without race bending then nearly every body in the main cast would be white.

Depends on the kind of adaptation.

The CW show have anyway added a lot of characters to the casts of their shows, who don't belong into the respective franchise in the comics (in case of Flash for example Vibe and Killer Frost) and in some cases even added characters that don't even exist in the comics (like Harrison Wells).

And in case of a Solo Flash movie, does race bending some non superhero support characters really do much?

[Nite-Wing]

Lets blame the writers, please

Dan D et all were the ones who advocated turning back the clock to their childhood, not us

The circle has no end
The majority of DC's fanbase enjoy the older comics
Coincidently Didio and others in power also enjoys older comics featuring their favorites
and thus we have the current comics landscape
Its slowly changing but every new minority hero and new hero created to make up for the imbalance is upending the happiness of certain fans

Its not a coincidence that something so innocuous as this has become a controversial issue due to gatekeeping and trying to push back against change

[John Venus]

Flash was the first Big 2 solo comic with an interracial family and gay supporting character. This is just not the case and is only the case if you force the comic to live in the 1960s. Racebending is hardly a necessary tool.

The diversity message might actually make a lick of sense if Barry as the main character was being race swapped since he's, you know, the main character and the one being inserted into movies. Racebending supporting characters and pretending you added diversity is silly. Iris West isn't on any movie posters and if you wanted a Flash with a minority love interest then Wally is right there.

I know but I'm referring to Barry, whom they insist on making the main character of these shows. My Flash will always be Wally West.

The circle has no end
The majority of DC's fanbase enjoy the older comics
Coincidently Didio and others in power also enjoys older comics featuring their favorites
and thus we have the current comics landscape
Its slowly changing but every new minority hero and new hero created to make up for the imbalance is upending the happiness of certain fans

Its not a coincidence that something so innocuous as this has become a controversial issue due to gatekeeping and trying to push back against change

Late 90's and early 00's, DC had an Asian American Batgirl who was the first Batgirl to hold a solo, Green Arrow was Connor Hawke (a biracial teen), John Stewart was on the JL and if Wally's evolution was allowed to continue, Irey West could have become the lead Flash. DC was doing what Marvel would later do with 'All New All Different' except 15 years early by diversifying their line up. It only went wrong when certain nostalgia driven fan boys started undoing all that work based on some nebulous 'this wasn't what I grew up with' mind set which marginalized a lot of characters. Then they started adding more diverse characters while also systematically TNT'ing huge chunks of continuity that they didn't like.

[Vakanai]

But then again, if you are adapting, say, the Flash without race bending then nearly every body in the main cast would be white.

I'm all for pushing existing minority characters but race bending is a necessary tool if you want to maintain the longevity of these characters.

Bring in new characters into the main cast. You think Vibe is usually part of the Flash's main cast? Not in the comics. But the show added him in. There's a lot of existing POC characters, and a lot of characters they can make up, that can become part of the main cast.

Besides, Vibe's been cool in that show.

So no, I don't think race bending is a necessary tool (and yes, I'm aware that show does race bend the West family).

[Dred]

The West's all being black is kind of incidental because they just wanted Jesse Martin to be in the role of an entirely new character, Joe West, who doesn't exist in comics anyhow. So obviously his kids would be black and that's how the casting call went out. It wasn't even specifically done for diversity but because the best actor they had begets the rest of the family making sense.

[Vakanai]

The West's all being black is kind of incidental because they just wanted Jesse Martin to be in the role of an entirely new character, Joe West, who doesn't exist in comics anyhow. So obviously his kids would be black and that's how the casting call went out. It wasn't even specifically done for diversity but because the best actor they had begets the rest of the family making sense.

I'm glad they did though, I love Joe West! And not gonna lie, but I've developed a tv crush on Iris West. Just wow she's pretty.

[John Venus]

Bring in new characters into the main cast. You think Vibe is usually part of the Flash's main cast? Not in the comics. But the show added him in. There's a lot of existing POC characters, and a lot of characters they can make up, that can become part of the main cast.

Besides, Vibe's been cool in that show.

So no, I don't think race bending is a necessary tool (and yes, I'm aware that show does race bend the West family).

But why does a change in race/ethnicity bother you? Shouldn't it be the best available actor for the job?

[Harpsikord]

Do you have anything to back that up?

Mostly the fact that they didn't really go into most of the Justice League cast's personal lives. He was The Flash more than he was Wally.

It's disingenuous to say that Wally acts the same after they race bent him or to dismiss the problematic nature of the change in his origin. This is something that I can see becoming an issue as race bending becomes more common place; how characters are depicted afterwards. After they made Wally West black, they turned him a criminal and then they gave his personality, charm, milestones, conflicts, humor and even his love interest to Barry Allen. Meanwhile, the white Wally West on JLU was a police scientist, had no criminal record, spent all day using his powers to help ordinary people not just from bad guys but with every day problems, seemingly on a first name basis with everyone in the city, 'beat' villains by just talking to them and he was considered the 'heart' of the team. Where is that kind of love for the black Wally West?

I'm not going to argue about Linda Park - the fact of the matter is that Linda Park appeared in the TV show before Wally West did - but I feel like you're conflating the so-called 'issues' of Wally West in the Flash TV show while ignoring all the things that happened to him outside of his original introduction, which yes, had him as a drag racer... ultimately a 'crime' that's only harmful to himself. But that's ignoring the times that he took over for Barry, the fact that he acts much like himself, the Peace Corps stuff, basically everything OTHER than his origin. That's just not fair. And how does making Wally West a forensic scientist match anything about his character from the JLU? My point about JLU Flash is, again, he's JLU Flash. He's barely known as Wally West because he comes from a time when he was just known as the Flash because most heroes were just known by their codenames.

As for the issue with Tim being changed or other racebent characters being changed, that's something else entirely: to put it simply, it's racism. The fact that writers see a character that they're writing who is black and turns them into cliche stereotypes is racism. There's nothing wrong on paper with Wally West, Tim Drake, or any other character being black which is what I'm discussing. Execution is something else altogether, more in the case of what they appear to be doing to Tim in comparison to Wally.

[Vakanai]

But why does a change in race/ethnicity bother you? Shouldn't it be the best available actor for the job?

Because I'm a nerd and I want the guys up on screen to kind of look like the guy on the page - and yes, this trumps "acting ability" for me because hey comic book movie.

Why would it bother you if they don't race bend and go with using existing POC characters more instead?

Edit - Also, the "why does it bother you" card is kind of a cliche and disingenuous argument, let's be honest.

[Dred]

There is something wrong if you prefer a character to be who they've always been and don't want them to be different. And I'm not speaking about just whatever color their skin is on the page. When you change a character's race you fundamentally change tons about them and the context of their life. Why wouldn't someone want Tim to be race changed to black? Because the person likes Tim and doesn't want what would be an absolutely incredibly encompassing retcon to change who he is or what he's done in his life. You can't just pretend there's no difference in being white or black or asian or native american in America. To do so is changing a color and ignoring what makes people diverse.

This isn't really an issue in external media, which essentially completely rewrite characters with only vague references to the comic stories that won't be affected by racial context. But changing already existing, long standing characters will do that. The only other way is, I guess, just do everyone like Huntress and make a new character with the same name. Which is also what they tried to do with Wally and it went bad.

[Vakanai]

They're race bending Tim now in the comics? Yep, DC is just flinging crap at the wall right now...

I mean, just use Duke more.

[Dred]

Tim was being used as an example at one point (probably because people see him as redundant a lot) because of a rumor about him being biracial asian/black in the Titans TV show (which is actually just a Batman side characters tv show now, c'est la vie). I don't believe that's happening unless I missed something.

But yeah Duke is essentially Black Tim already anyhow with regards to Bat family role. They're different but fill the same space.

[Vakanai]

Tim was being used as an example at one point (probably because people see him as redundant a lot). I don't believe that's happening unless I missed something.

Okay, good. Because that'd be dumb.

[Alpha]

Tim was being used as an example at one point (probably because people see him as redundant a lot) because of a rumor about him being biracial asian/black in the Titans TV show (which is actually just a Batman side characters tv show now, c'est la vie). I don't believe that's happening unless I missed something.

But yeah Duke is essentially Black Tim already anyhow with regards to Bat family role. They're different but fill the same space.

Tim Drake will in fact be played by an actor of mixed ethnicity in the Titans live action tv show, that part is not a rumor.



But there's no reason to believe that DC intends to do adapt the actor's likeness to the comics right now.

[Colossus1980]

DC and Marvel have a problem creating new characters that will impact and last in the comic medium. All they have are franchises created decades ago that they have to change up because very few readers are willing to support a new franchise. Personally I'm sick of it but that's the way of the beast. Just want both companies to create new IPs without having to change everything about an existing franchise.