Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[marhawkman]

Oh yes. Tim/Cassie was poorly done, and shouldn't have been done.

As serious as Conner and Cassie got in the comics? It's asking a LOT to try to get fans to be onboard with a different romance option.

[Fergus]

Duke was never going to show up on Titans lets be real. Thus far they are following the Robin lineage and Duke is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the way down there. Practically last in line. Tim Drake is 100% more well known and likely to get adapted.

two things

1,You don't know that for a fact since the TITANS show hasn't being following the Titans lineage or lore so not sure why you would expect them to follow the Robins linage when they haven't stayed true to the lore and linage of the titular show.

2, none of what you said makes it okay to take blackwash Tim.

You believe that it's unlikely they will adapt Duke makes it even worse. There are two Robins that are POC

One is African American the other is of Asian heritage [discounting Dick since that was a retcon and folks always debate that issue]

the show decided to race bend a white Robin and make him Asian and African American


This isn't the 1st time it has happened with Tim and a show called titans that has yet to have Wally West isn't going for accuracy. proper lineage isn't important So that arguments has no legs

If the show wanted to use a well known Robin and promote diversity then Damian is far more well known than Tim and he is a minority. Again no legs. It was a bad racebend. Tim didn't need to become Black or Asian when DC has an Asian Robin and a Black Robin

[Fergus]

Didn't they show Duke Thomas on Titans recently. I haven't seen the new season but I saw people posting on twitter images of Duke, Daxton Chill, Stephanie Brown and Carrie Kelley on some computer screen. I don't know the context, but maybe they're planned to be future Robins or future Titan members in general.

No that was Luke on the set of Batwoman

[Psy-lock]

two things

1,You don't know that for a fact since the TITANS show hasn't being following the Titans lineage or lore so not sure why you would expect them to follow the Robins linage when they haven't stayed true to the lore and linage of the titular show.

2, none of what you said makes it okay to take blackwash Tim.

You believe that it's unlikely they will adapt Duke makes it even worse. There are two Robins that are POC

One is African American the other is of Asian heritage [discounting Dick since that was a retcon and folks always debate that issue]

the show decided to race bend a white Robin and make him Asian and African American


This isn't the 1st time it has happened with Tim and a show called titans that has yet to have Wally West isn't going for accuracy. proper lineage isn't important So that arguments has no legs

If the show wanted to use a well known Robin and promote diversity then Damian is far more well known than Tim and he is a minority. Again no legs. It was a bad racebend. Tim didn't need to become Black or Asian when DC has an Asian Robin and a Black Robin

Literally nothing stops them from using Duke and Damian in the future seasons.

[Fergus]

Sort of true, it's just that looking at things historically, it seems to me that it's only the top tier big name heroes that actually fit being billed as "white guys". It's a big part of why I like big team books. You have the top tier characters... and a few dozen others who don't get as much time in the spotlight.

I remember a thread on the Xmen board a while back where someone was trying to make a list of "black" Xmen characters... Xmen has a LOT of ethnic diversity in the cast... a LOT. Thing is... most of it gets ignored by casual readers and anyone who's not obviously dark skinned gets thrown into the "white" bin for having light skin.

Like Magneto... Magneto is Jewish. Jews are of Middle Eastern origin. They don't have particularly dark skin though. Just look at Gal Gadot if you want an easy example. She used to be a member of the Israeli military and was born in Israel. But some people label her as "white" anyways.
Yeah, I mean, for marketing, simply changing the color of the gloves a character wears has an influence on marketability. Which is why it's weird that they'd adapt a character... just to completely change them. It's not recognizable from a marketing perspective. Which is like... why not use a different character? Racebending is a half-measure that doesn't work for either goal. It doesn't create an interesting character, and it doesn't improve marketability. Unless the entire marketing strategy is centered on skin tones...

You are right.

I've noticed that about Damian Wayne and the Al Ghuls. I don't understand how any reader can think the Al ghuls are Caucasian. Even after they were featured in DC Celebration if Asian heroes and Al Ghul being middle Eastern.

Race bending allows companies like Dc to seem inclusive however any costumers that are won over simply due to skin tone is just going to be lost once they discover that the original has a different skin tone.

It is 100% marketing. There's a reason why Tim Drake the male Robins that has been steadily declining for years is the one that recently became a person of colour and LGBTQ

[Fergus]

Literally nothing stops them from using Duke and Damian in the future seasons.

Literally Nothing stopped them from using them in season 3 especially Duke.

[Psy-lock]

Literally Nothing stopped them from using them in season 3 especially Duke.

They're clearly going in a chronological order with the Robins.

[Aahz]

Like Magneto... Magneto is Jewish. Jews are of Middle Eastern origin.

I wouldn't really call someone "Middle Eastern" if his family when his family has very likely lived in Europe since (before) the middle ages.

From a european perspective that's even potentially problematic since that kind of implies that the european jews don't belong here.

[marhawkman]

I wouldn't really call someone "Middle Eastern" if his family when his family has very likely lived in Europe since (before) the middle ages.

From a european perspective that's even potentially problematic since that kind of implies that the european jews don't belong here.

By that logic "African Americans" should just be called Americans. Most are descended from people who've never even been to Africa in over a century.

Now it is a valid question what percentage of Jewish DNA Magneto actually has since admixture probably happened. But.... He's someone who has been the victim of hate crimes due to being Jewish as well as for being a Mutant. That says a few things about how Jewish he is.

Of course.. that goes for African Americans too.

[Alpha]

You say that as if African American isn't also a debated term.

[Dred]

The big problem is that the original Teen Titans members are predominantly lily white so you end up with a show that looks that way unless you racebend. The show turning into a Batman family show instead of a Titans show means that when they bring in the many, many white bat characters they have to racebend some of them so their casting doesn't look hilariously racist.

If it was more of a Titans show they could've introduced Karen and Mal instead of turning Tim black but, they want to do more batfamily stuff so the batfamilly has to be more representative of people instead of the Titans. Tim is the next Robin in line, so he gets the shift.

[achilles]

Someone should do a poll here to see who likes the idea of race/gender/sexuality bending of existing characters so we can see some hard numbers. An anonymous poll would be fine, it's only the raw numbers that should be interesting.

[Alpha]

Someone should do a poll here to see who likes the idea of race/gender/sexuality bending of existing characters so we can see some hard numbers. An anonymous poll would be fine, it's only the raw numbers that should be interesting.

Likes? I mean, I don't have a problem with it in a lot of cases, and I think there are examples of characters that became more visually interesting thanks to certain castings or redesigns, but that's very different from what you are describing.

[achilles]

Likes? I mean, I don't have a problem with it in a lot of cases, and I think there are examples of characters that became more visually interesting thanks to certain castings or redesigns, but that's very different from what you are describing.

Sorry if my meaning didn't come across, been up for way to long from some food from a place that does not at all rhyme with Ipotle, brain was a bit fuzzy. Still is, for that matter.

Comics. Changing for no other reason than to pander, according to some. Also same people suggest that original characters should be used instead. And that the execution is bad; "Boyfriend/GF" three seconds after we met, or "Wow, after an entire publication history with no indication said character is gay/bi/trans, he suddenly is. With no build up inner thoughts, no flirtations, nothing. Sorry, I'm nearly asleep, so most of these thoughts are probably not worth bothering with.

[marhawkman]

Comics. Changing for no other reason than to pander, according to some. Also same people suggest that original characters should be used instead. And that the execution is bad; "Boyfriend/GF" three seconds after we met, or "Wow, after an entire publication history with no indication said character is gay/bi/trans, he suddenly is. With no build up inner thoughts, no flirtations, nothing. Sorry, I'm nearly asleep, so most of these thoughts are probably not worth bothering with.

Well yeah, the basic gist here is about radical character changes for out-of-universe reasons. I personally think it fails more often than it succeeds.

One interesting discussion that came up on the Xmen board was about Monet St. Croix. The character has always been depicted as non-white. But.... the original appearances don't actually show her with dark skin. In fact she has a paternal grandfather that is white. So what's the non-white part of her ancestry? MY best guess after reading her character history? Algerian Berbers... who aren't "black". Yeah on the 0(albino) to 10(fully black) scale Berbers are around a 6 or so. and Monet was typically drawn having skin that's a little darker than a deep tan. Also her facial features fit with what is typical for a Berber woman. Also there's the fact that Monet tends to behave like a French(technically she's from Monaco not France, but... it's nearly the same thing) Aristocrat.

You say that as if African American isn't also a debated term.

Well that's kind of why I used it as an example TBH. I've had this conversation before... in face to face discussions.