Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[OopsIdiditagain]

The fact that reimagining old characters is the only way to inject diversity into the genre just proves that the genre is dying creatively. To man old fans that don’t try new things.

Was power rangers getting more diverse with each generation a sign of the franchise dying or its audience expanding? I agree some fans don't want new characters but I'm not sure about creativity dying. Creator-owned comics in the same genre have a lot of diversity and creativity. To me, it seems more like writers and artists are restricted. I can't even remember the last time dc even had a mini-series with a completely brand new character that wasn't a legacy of an existing one.

[cranger]

Was power rangers getting more diverse with each generation a sign of the franchise dying or its audience expanding? I agree some fans don't want new characters but I'm not sure about creativity dying. Creator-owned comics in the same genre have a lot of diversity and creativity. To me, it seems more like writers and artists are restricted. I can't even remember the last time dc even had a mini-series with a completely brand new character that wasn't a legacy of an existing one.

Television has the 'benefit' of needing to replace characters and shows. The closest you will get is animated shows and soap operas, and the main cast in those genres manages to stay stagnant.

It seems like DC is trying to come up with a Next Generation, we will see how well it works (I suppose I should put my money where my mouth is and support it).

Depending on your definition of legacy I am sure someone could come up with some titles, but I know several of the New Age of Heroes titles were brand new.

[Dr. Skeleton]

I didn't like they made Alan gay just for the sake of it despite being married with children trying to say he was forcing himself to like women. And the fact he was hetero for decades without any kind of evidence that he was in closet, but it seems this is what's in vogue in the comic industry doing this like what they did with Iceman. DC and Marvel feel they don't have enough gay and bi characters so they end up doing this. I think having Joker coming out makes more sense as he constantly reveals his man-crush with Batman.

[j9ac9k]

99% of male superheroes wear colorful skin-tight outfits that highlight their perfect bodies. It wouldn't not "make sense" for any of them to come out of the closet.

[superduperman]

Keep in mind, if you make a character for a comic company, they OWN that character. So there's not a lot of incentive on the part of creators to just give away a new character. Especially if there's a chance said character might become popular. So creators tend not to give away their best ideas. "We want you to make us a gay/bi/trans character. Oh, and we get to keep it. So if it becomes popular, we get all the credit and profits". Yeah, I can't imagine why creators are reluctant to make new characters. Remember Bloodlines? Some creators openly admitted that since DC would get the rights to the characters, they didn't exactly give it their best efforts.

[Alpha]

99% of male superheroes wear colorful skin-tight outfits that highlight their perfect bodies. It wouldn't not "make sense" for any of them to come out of the closet.

this Mofo is straight up spitting facts.

I'll say this about the subject, I don't think I care about most cases, but execution is key. I like diversity for the most part but someone like Etta Candy is a great example of a character that shouldn't be race bent, not because of her backstory, but because she started out as a fat joke with food puns that somehow still had something empowering about her. When you make a character like that black you enter a whole other level of walking the dangerous line between being degrading and empowering, so it ends up being not worth it. Same thing would be true of making the Joker gay, just for example. It ends up hurting more than it helps.

[DrNewGod]

Generally, I prefer characters as created. That said, the American audience is different now.

There are only a few that are probably difficult to tamper with. IMO, Batman and Green Arrow should be white as long as the American wealthy elite is mainly white, because coming from entrenched privilege is an integral part of their backstory. Wonder Woman should probably always be Mediterranean, stemming as she does from Greco-Roman myth. Vibe should always be Latino, because he was inherently created as an Urban Latino. The Shining Knight should always be British as the characters origin is bound up in Arthurian legend no matter what gender we make them. Characters like Black Lightning were explicitly intended to represent a group (or exploit it, depending on your view). Vixen is inextricably tied to the indigenous people of sub-saharan Africa.

Everybody else I can think of is in play.

But that also means there's no reason The Bronze Tiger can't be a Sikh in the next reboot, or Swedish. He's a rare case where a Bronze Age character of color wasn't created with his race as a central feature of the concept. He was a loose reference to a character from Enter The Dragon.

[Veni]

As I said in a previous thread , people don't have a problem with diverse characters. However, changing the race or sexuality of an established character will make people furious. Racebending maybe popular in Hollywood right now, but outside the USA, it is viewed negatively. I have seen people on forums compain why they continue to racebend gingers for example. Etta Candy, Helena Bertinelli and the version of Legion that Bendis introduced are a example of this. Bendis rebooted the Legion and what became of it. Nothing. Etta in Tamaki's run on Wonder Woman was horribly depicted in personality and in apperance. She looked like a character from a 90s comic. I'm all for diversity but changing established characters should not be the norm, especially characters who are from a different ethnicity. Diversity doesn't mean only people from different races, but people from different ethnicities as well.

[skyvolt2000]

More the reluctance of creators today to make new characters than that it's hard to do, IMO.

They have no issue doing it at other companies.

Spawn is at what 320 issues a book starring a black guy. Who also had spinoffs along the way.

While most of the black lead books have suffered at the hands of editorial-especially at DC.

Robert Kirkman say HI-with Walking Dead and Invincible. Invincible has seen a huge increase thanks to that cartoon something Static was denied.

And creators remember what was done to Milestone and Ultraverse.


And yes New Age Heroes were aside from Damage-new guys. Where are they?

How many new guys got butchered in Heroes in Crisis? Gunfire held a book. Hospot was a lead in a book.


There are enough characters collecting dust that there is no need to make Alan Scott gay-we already got a few not being used.

Why create Duke Thomas when Tim Drake had a black friend named Hudman-who could have been fleshed out and Duke could have been used in Snyder's other company projects.

[John Venus]

I don't mind changes to characters race and sexuality. Characters should be evolving to suit the needs and shifts in society and perception.

While I prefer elevating characters who were created poc or not-straight from the start, I know some franchises were never diverse to begin with so changing them for adaptations make sense.

[Eskana]

I kinda do mind.... even when it's not a character I have a big attachment to. I think it's a disservice to the character, and it takes away from possible new diversity characters who need a chance.

Firstly, comics are a visual medium. There's nothing like the thrill of seeing an actor look EXACTLY like the character on the page. I feel like animators/directors should honor the creators of the original characters by keeping them close to their appearance. That may be a bit of personal taste though... Even when I like the actor and the portrayal, I still have a voice in the back of my head going, "He's great... but Barry IS supposed to be blond."

Secondly, usually when they bend a character, they often ignore the character's previous history. Not always, but often enough.

Thirdly, there's really no reason why, with good writing, they can't make new characters who are diversity interesting. Look at Naomi, Jaime Reyes, Kamala Khan, and more. Other posters have mentioned that a lot of CB readers don't like change, which is true, but that's true in any medium. Some people will say that this is the reason you need to racebend etc existing characters, so that the overall cast is more diverse. But I'd like to point out that white characters just as likely to fade from public consciousness if they're not well-written, or even if they just don't catch on with audiences. Historically, the heroes have been white and male, but we're in a new age now- why not introduce new characters? Just make sure they have someone behind them.
Alternatively, we can get new writers on previously established diversity characters, which would probably satisfy all audiences. When Yara Flor (another cool character so far) was introduced, my first thought was of DC's other Brazilian superhero- Fire. They could easily bring her back, and she has so many facets to her- supermodel, superhero, superspy- that I don't think it would be too difficult for a writer to handle. (I'd love to see more of Fire working with Checkmate.) I appreciate when they attempt to bring back characters, like how they're bringing back Shiloh Norman as Mr. Miracle.


If people are hesitant, I think making the diversity characters part of a legacy is a good starter. The most important thing is making sure they have a personality that goes beyond "I'm a diversity character." Jessica Cruz is another great example of a character done right, although recently they seem to be making some changes to her background. Another important part is not using the new character to permanently replace an old one... I don't have a problem, really, with expanding the legacy. It might not make a lot of sense, but honestly... I have no problem with their being like eight Green Lanterns of Earth.

Trying to racebend or replace old characters with new characters doesn't seem to work a lot, and is disrespectful to both halves. I can't really think of a time that it's worked... Wally and Wallace West is a well-known example. They tried to replace Wally with Wallace, and ended up creating a new character. I like both, and I've liked it the more that the two of them have been able to develop some kind of relationship. Personally, I think the team-up of Wally, Wallace, Barry, and Jay is fantastic. But on screen, you can already see the ripples of the moves towards replacing Wally.... why else is Iris black in every TV show and movie so far? Don't get me wrong, Iris being black isn't a problem (and honestly, I'm annoyed rather that Barry isn't blond, lol,) but I'm assuming it's because they're planning on cutting out Wally to get to Wallace. In my opinion, I don't see why you can't have both, and have great stories, characters, and dynamics. A better way to do it, IMO, would be like how they handle Jaime Reyes and Ted Kord as the Blue Beetle- both heroes have the same code name, but are vastly different in method, can work independently, and honestly are intended for slightly different audiences. And, now that Ted's back, they haven't got into the Wally-Barry struggle of "who gets to be Blue Beetle" since they are both different enough. They can both claim the name.

I'm probably just rambling, but that's my take...

TLDR- Overall, I don't like it and I don't think introducing new diversity characters is as impossible as people say.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm fine with it and I could see the pragmatism behind it. Race Bending is a way to cut corners etc. DC is a business and running a business is being risk averse. Creating new characters is risky for Marvel and DC given both companies have been using the same heavy hitters for decades.

[Timothy Hunter]

I kinda do mind.... even when it's not a character I have a big attachment to. I think it's a disservice to the character, and it takes away from possible new diversity characters who need a chance.

Firstly, comics are a visual medium. There's nothing like the thrill of seeing an actor look EXACTLY like the character on the page. I feel like animators/directors should honor the creators of the original characters by keeping them close to their appearance. That may be a bit of personal taste though... Even when I like the actor and the portrayal, I still have a voice in the back of my head going, "He's great... but Barry IS supposed to be blond."

Secondly, usually when they bend a character, they often ignore the character's previous history. Not always, but often enough.

Thirdly, there's really no reason why, with good writing, they can't make new characters who are diversity interesting. Look at Naomi, Jaime Reyes, Kamala Khan, and more. Other posters have mentioned that a lot of CB readers don't like change, which is true, but that's true in any medium. Some people will say that this is the reason you need to racebend etc existing characters, so that the overall cast is more diverse. But I'd like to point out that white characters just as likely to fade from public consciousness if they're not well-written, or even if they just don't catch on with audiences. Historically, the heroes have been white and male, but we're in a new age now- why not introduce new characters? Just make sure they have someone behind them.
Alternatively, we can get new writers on previously established diversity characters, which would probably satisfy all audiences. When Yara Flor (another cool character so far) was introduced, my first thought was of DC's other Brazilian superhero- Fire. They could easily bring her back, and she has so many facets to her- supermodel, superhero, superspy- that I don't think it would be too difficult for a writer to handle. (I'd love to see more of Fire working with Checkmate.) I appreciate when they attempt to bring back characters, like how they're bringing back Shiloh Norman as Mr. Miracle.


If people are hesitant, I think making the diversity characters part of a legacy is a good starter. The most important thing is making sure they have a personality that goes beyond "I'm a diversity character." Jessica Cruz is another great example of a character done right, although recently they seem to be making some changes to her background. Another important part is not using the new character to permanently replace an old one... I don't have a problem, really, with expanding the legacy. It might not make a lot of sense, but honestly... I have no problem with their being like eight Green Lanterns of Earth.

Trying to racebend or replace old characters with new characters doesn't seem to work a lot, and is disrespectful to both halves. I can't really think of a time that it's worked... Wally and Wallace West is a well-known example. They tried to replace Wally with Wallace, and ended up creating a new character. I like both, and I've liked it the more that the two of them have been able to develop some kind of relationship. Personally, I think the team-up of Wally, Wallace, Barry, and Jay is fantastic. But on screen, you can already see the ripples of the moves towards replacing Wally.... why else is Iris black in every TV show and movie so far? Don't get me wrong, Iris being black isn't a problem (and honestly, I'm annoyed rather that Barry isn't blond, lol,) but I'm assuming it's because they're planning on cutting out Wally to get to Wallace. In my opinion, I don't see why you can't have both, and have great stories, characters, and dynamics. A better way to do it, IMO, would be like how they handle Jaime Reyes and Ted Kord as the Blue Beetle- both heroes have the same code name, but are vastly different in method, can work independently, and honestly are intended for slightly different audiences. And, now that Ted's back, they haven't got into the Wally-Barry struggle of "who gets to be Blue Beetle" since they are both different enough. They can both claim the name.

I'm probably just rambling, but that's my take...

TLDR- Overall, I don't like it and I don't think introducing new diversity characters is as impossible as people say.

I agree. Race-bending major tentpole characters prevents lesser known DC characters of color, which there are plenty, from getting their deserved spotlight.

[CellarDweller]

Race bending.......because comics have been around for decades, and the casts have been predominantly white, characters of color do not have the legacy of white characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and others. In theory I don't have a problem with race bending, but I would rather see the effort put into giving great stories and development to characters like Naomi, Vixen, Black Lightning, Impala and others.

We also need to remember that people connect to these characters, and seeing them changed in a way like race or sexuality can cause some strong feelings.

I remember when Smallville was on, and the "Idol" episode was aired, which featured the Wonder Twins. I saw someone posting online, who was Asian, who claimed that having the Twins portrayed as white was racist, because he thought they were Asian, like he was. Someone later reply that while the Twins from Super Friends did have some features that appeared Asian, they were really aliens from Exor.

As for changing a character's sexuality / sexual orientation, as a gay man, I'm ok with it if it's done properly. While being out and proud seems to be common now, I do know a few people who are still in the closet, and living a 'straight' lifestyle, because that's what they think is expected of them. So seeing a 'straight' character come out as gay / lesbian / bisexual / transgender is realistic thing to have happen.

However, I think that there needs to be realistic stories that come from such a storyline. If the character has been portrayed as straight for a while, they can't just suddenly be 'gay'......there should be a process that becomes part of the story. Their own personal struggle, telling friends and family, being confronted by former opposite sex partners.

One doesn't just come out as LGBT and suddenly everything is smooth sailing.

[Captain Nostalgia]

It's not that people are against racial or gender diversity it's just that when you change someone's skin pigmentation or physical gender you are drastically altering a characters appearance, to the point that the fan of that character feels alienated from the one they first identified with.

As per example: I was really upset about the change to Lightning Lad because since the age of 6 or 7, I have identified him as a pasty paste ginger. so no matter what they could have done, for me it was not Garth Ranzz.

On the other hand, I welcomed the change to Mr. Terrific, because he was a low key golden age member of the JSA who didn't have a large following, so it fit perfect.