Chanigng characters race or sexuality for DC characters

[Johnrevenge]

The bolded part isn't true.

A lot of people have problems with diversity in media and in real life.

This is so true

[Username taken]

Some people view it negatively in the USA as well. Most outside the USA don't care.



Funny how these same people have nothing to say when we have white actors with black or brown hair playing characters who are redheads in the source material. Charlie Cox refused to even dye his hair red when playing Daredevil and I didn't see anyone complaining.



I've read 90s comics. None of the women looked like Etta in Tamaki's run.

Exactly this.

A lot of people outside of the US don't care about racebending one way or the other. Most of the howls and screams about racebending is from the USA.

The USA has a unique problem with racism. Note, I am not saying racism doesn't exist anywhere but the USA in particular has a complicated history with it and folks are trying real hard to extend this complicated history.

And its funny that certain people only complain about when a white character is changed. The last New Mutants movie cast Roberto Dacosta (Sunspot) as a white Brazilian whereas the comic character is an Afro-Brazilian. I guess when the character is turned white then its alright for these guys.

[Agent Z]

As with everything, it can be done well or poorly.

In principle, the only problem I have with it is the lack of consistence cross-media: we've got one black Jimmy Olsen, one black Deadshot, one black Black Canary and so on. All the other versions of these characters remain white. So if a kid looks up to one of them, and tries to research them... heh.

I don't think its that much of an issue. People are more less used to different versions of characters. We've had two black Selina Kyles with a third one coming from Matt Reeves's Batman film. Most other versions of the character are white.

[The Darknight Detective]

You are a good man. May mother earth bless you

Heh. Thank you very much (I think).

[Johnny]

Funny how these same people have nothing to say when we have white actors with black or brown hair playing characters who are redheads in the source material. Charlie Cox refused to even dye his hair red when playing Daredevil and I didn't see anyone complaining.

Hair color and skin color are two very different things though. And I've heard plenty of fan complaints about Grant Gustin and Ezra Miller not being blonde as Barry, but I think people generally don't seem to care as much for that aspect since it doesn't change the character's entire look. You can have Catwoman with long hair, short hair, dark hair or blonde hair and people don't tend to bring it up, but when you make her a black woman that's a different story that people who are used to her classic appearance would naturally bring up. The one major raceswapping I can think of that I've never heard anyone complain about was Dean Cain as Superman. That version seems to have always been embraced across the board and noone brings up the race factor at all.

[achilles]

I kinda do mind.... even when it's not a character I have a big attachment to. I think it's a disservice to the character, and it takes away from possible new diversity characters who need a chance.

Firstly, comics are a visual medium. There's nothing like the thrill of seeing an actor look EXACTLY like the character on the page. I feel like animators/directors should honor the creators of the original characters by keeping them close to their appearance. That may be a bit of personal taste though... Even when I like the actor and the portrayal, I still have a voice in the back of my head going, "He's great... but Barry IS supposed to be blond."

Secondly, usually when they bend a character, they often ignore the character's previous history. Not always, but often enough.

Thirdly, there's really no reason why, with good writing, they can't make new characters who are diversity interesting. Look at Naomi, Jaime Reyes, Kamala Khan, and more. Other posters have mentioned that a lot of CB readers don't like change, which is true, but that's true in any medium. Some people will say that this is the reason you need to racebend etc existing characters, so that the overall cast is more diverse. But I'd like to point out that white characters just as likely to fade from public consciousness if they're not well-written, or even if they just don't catch on with audiences. Historically, the heroes have been white and male, but we're in a new age now- why not introduce new characters? Just make sure they have someone behind them.
Alternatively, we can get new writers on previously established diversity characters, which would probably satisfy all audiences. When Yara Flor (another cool character so far) was introduced, my first thought was of DC's other Brazilian superhero- Fire. They could easily bring her back, and she has so many facets to her- supermodel, superhero, superspy- that I don't think it would be too difficult for a writer to handle. (I'd love to see more of Fire working with Checkmate.) I appreciate when they attempt to bring back characters, like how they're bringing back Shiloh Norman as Mr. Miracle.


If people are hesitant, I think making the diversity characters part of a legacy is a good starter. The most important thing is making sure they have a personality that goes beyond "I'm a diversity character." Jessica Cruz is another great example of a character done right, although recently they seem to be making some changes to her background. Another important part is not using the new character to permanently replace an old one... I don't have a problem, really, with expanding the legacy. It might not make a lot of sense, but honestly... I have no problem with their being like eight Green Lanterns of Earth.

Trying to racebend or replace old characters with new characters doesn't seem to work a lot, and is disrespectful to both halves. I can't really think of a time that it's worked... Wally and Wallace West is a well-known example. They tried to replace Wally with Wallace, and ended up creating a new character. I like both, and I've liked it the more that the two of them have been able to develop some kind of relationship. Personally, I think the team-up of Wally, Wallace, Barry, and Jay is fantastic. But on screen, you can already see the ripples of the moves towards replacing Wally.... why else is Iris black in every TV show and movie so far? Don't get me wrong, Iris being black isn't a problem (and honestly, I'm annoyed rather that Barry isn't blond, lol,) but I'm assuming it's because they're planning on cutting out Wally to get to Wallace. In my opinion, I don't see why you can't have both, and have great stories, characters, and dynamics. A better way to do it, IMO, would be like how they handle Jaime Reyes and Ted Kord as the Blue Beetle- both heroes have the same code name, but are vastly different in method, can work independently, and honestly are intended for slightly different audiences. And, now that Ted's back, they haven't got into the Wally-Barry struggle of "who gets to be Blue Beetle" since they are both different enough. They can both claim the name.

I'm probably just rambling, but that's my take...

TLDR- Overall, I don't like it and I don't think introducing new diversity characters is as impossible as people say.

After reading this, I realized I too judge based on a baseline look for a character. As an example, I judge a visual of Superman based on how closely it resembles...Chris Reeve. Especially other actors playing the role, but also the pages of a comic book. I give low marks for Cavil for example because IMO he doesn't look much like Reeve. Ditto for Cain. Routh is the closest for me, followed by Tyler H. I will say that apart from the visual aspect, I also judge Superman based on how closely he acts like Reeve's IMO definitive version.

In any event, it's down to that level with me, and I suspect others.


But it seems to be a point well taken.

[postfutureshock]

Except why most people don't want to read back because they want new contents , and many stuffs from the past are way too outdated for the modern day espcially art and technology.

Well that sucks for them! People need to ascend with the times and obviously these corporations are seeing the benefit or they wouldn't keep doing it. So the whole idea that these changes or concepts don't sell is false. If they don't sell comics, they sell via TV or film.

[Robotman]

It depends. Sometimes it’s pulled off well and sometimes it’s just done in a really lazy way. Overall I much prefer a legacy character to take over an old mantle. Michael Holt as Mr. Terrific for example.

People saying that it’s hard to create new characters, please see James Tynion’s Batman run. The guy seemingly introduces a new character every month. There were even rumors of Ghostmaker getting a tv show.

[Alpha]

It depends. Sometimes it’s pulled off well and sometimes it’s just done in a really lazy way. Overall I much prefer a legacy character to take over an old mantle. Michael Holt as Mr. Terrific for example.

People saying that it’s hard to create new characters, please see James Tynion’s Batman run. The guy seemingly introduces a new character every month. There were even rumors of Ghostmaker getting a tv show.

Nobody said it was hard to create new characters, just hard to get people to read them. Batman has been full of new characters for years because it's a book that will always sell well so it's safe to introduce new ones. Scott Snyder created Blue Bird and turned Duke Thomas into Signal (i think it was him). Tom King created Gotham Girl and her brother and revamped Kite Man. In the 2000s there were plenty of new villains with Grant Morrison. The Flash also has had plenty of new characters for the last 10 years because it also always sells solidly.

[Vordan]

Mostly I don’t care unless they’re my favorites then I get upset. But turning Alan gay? Couldn’t care less about that. Creating Kenan Kong or Calvin Ellis or Hueran Guerra Supermen? I like those guys! I like Holt Mr. Terrific a lot and do not care at all about Terry Sloane. I like Yara Wonder Girl. For the most part I don’t mind.

That said, no matter what the corporate byline is, this kind of stuff isn’t driven by “representation”. It’s driven by profit. Companies aren’t content with the traditional white audience, they’re constantly seeking to grow the base, and to do that you can’t just have white straight guys as the leads. That’s why they do it, make no mistake.

And what the success of Ant-Man and Black Panther has taught us is that being a “B” or “C”-Lister doesn’t mean you can’t be a huge success. So I don’t really buy the argument that they have to racebend characters in order to make movies with PoC. If you make a good Vixen movie or a Mr. Terrific or a Steel movie (please someone do this I love Irons and he deserves better than that Shaq movie lol) then you very much can reap a massive profit.!

[Jcogginsa]

Many of DC's most prominent characters were created in a time where making a non-white, non-straight, or non-cis character was significantly difficult. Now that society has grown, changing certain character's ethnicities to provide more representation is perfectly valid.

While Legacy characters can also add representation, it's a lot easier to walk back a legacy character than it is to revert a big visible change to the originals.

[The Darknight Detective]

And what the success of Ant-Man and Black Panther has taught us is that being a “B” or “C”-Lister doesn’t mean you can’t be a huge success. So I don’t really buy the argument that they have to racebend characters in order to make movies with PoC. If you make a good Vixen movie or a Mr. Terrific or a Steel movie (please someone do this I love Irons and he deserves better than that Shaq movie lol) then you very much can reap a massive profit.!

Movie audiences are different than for the comics, though, so what works for one may not work for the other.

[Veni]

I don't think its that much of an issue. People are more less used to different versions of characters. We've had two black Selina Kyles with a third one coming from Matt Reeves's Batman film. Most other versions of the character are white.

Eartha Kitt did play Catwoman, but she didn't play Selina Kyle. She portrayed a completely different character. Also the main protagonist in Catwoman (2004) wasn't Selina Kyle either.

[Harpsikord]

Deep down do I truly care.... no.

I might have a knee-jerk reaction to a change but upon reflection, it's probably rooted in nostalgia or some insecurity I have. Often these changes don't matter.

This is the best post in this thread. And there are a ton of posts in this thread. Most of them are bad.

People who are upset with changing the races, sexualities, or basically anything else about the characters that they know and love have to do with nostalgia, insecurity, and implicit bias. On paper there's no reason that Clark Kent can't be a black or Asian man, and there's even less that Princess Diana can't be a person of color as well, but everyone sort of just has the idea that white and straight and cis have to be the default settings. They don't, for the most part, and when it comes down to it most characters are just assumed to be white in the first place even when that may not explicitly be the case - for instance why is there an issue when it's revealed that a character with 'light' skin is revealed to be Latinx or Asian? I dunno. I'm not gonna go on too long about the point.

TL;DR if you have an issue with your favorite characters having their races or sexual identities being changed you might need to do some self-evaluating.

[Nite-Wing]

Its time to accept the future my gatekeeping comic book fans
You have close to 80 years of comics to enjoy with your straight white heroes and villains but going forward DC shouldn't be a slave to the exploitation of brand recognition anymore

New characters are set up to fail
raceswapping an established character or even broadening their sexuality creates something new and original
No comic book company today should ever shy away from that