Should Jonathan Hickman saves DC Comics?

[Noodle]

DC Comics needs saving? This is news to me.

[lefthanded]

I have found DC comics to be progressively less interesting over the years, while I have thoroughly enjoyed everything Hickman has done over at Marvel. I think my issue with DC comics is that the conflict (via the villain) is highly repetitive and not interesting.

Batman keeps facing Joker, and while many like Joker, I find him to just be the same chaotic evil character. Batman non-Joker story arcs are just transition issues until the next Joker-based event, without there being any connection between Joker events.
Compare that to Hickman's Fantastic Four. Doctor Doom is to Reed/F4 as Joker is to Batman. Hickman uses Doom in different ways (bad guy, good guy, grey guy), and each appearance ties into the overall story that he is telling.

DC's Perpetua/Dark Metal events could be seen as being similar to Hickman's Avengers (both are cosmic events, with universe ending complications). Where DC faltered was focusing too much on Perpetua (and Batman who Laughs), who are both poorly defined characters that are antagonists just because (BwL's whole shtick is "I'm Joker so I'm evil, but I'm Batman so I'm good at it"). The heroes constantly lose just because evil is pervasive, they ultimately lose, and then have to figure out how to win (which they don't really). The final battle (Wonder Woman vs BwL) is essentially an overt Good v Evil fight as WW & BWL don't have any real personal connection, with the added meta layer of 'truth' being drizzled over it.

With Hickman's Avengers series, whose Beyonders serve a similar role, aren't really the focus of the story. Beyonders are inherently less interesting as characters than flawed heroes and villains trying to do good. The heroes are winning but still losing (Re: Incursions), then they ultimately lose, and then have to figure out a way to win. The final battle (Reed vs Victor) is reflective of these character's long history, their consistent difference in ideology, and is not about Good vs Evil but about the means of how to do good.


Maybe people don't like Hickman's long form story telling, data sheets / informational pages, and I agree that that is something one might not enjoy. But my argument is that Hickman's comics have more purpose/meaning, and are less just iterations of the same good vs evil fights. All the Future State stories seemed like more of the same to me (Another Batman vs the city officials story, but its different because its a different Batman and its in the future, etc.). So, I do think he is definitely a value-add if DC gets him to write a comic.

[exile001]

I get your points and LOVED Hickman's A/SW work but Snyder wasn't trying to write Avengers/Secret Wars, despite the similarities. He was riffing off Crisis on Infinite Earths that also had this set up.

He wanted a balls to the wall, stream of consciousness, non-stop blast of insanity filled with nonsense and meta jokes and weirdness and fun, that was unlike anything a DC reader had seen before. He wanted to write something insane as his big goodbye (for now) and got the freedom to do so. It's almost the opposite of what Hickman did in the same structure, with his measure and meticulous approach.

I didn't like either Metal event (I think they're unreadable messes) but I can't fault him for delivering what he promised and bringing a LOT of fans along for the ride.

[John Venus]

I don't know if the DCU could be saved by a single person. I don't think the DCU needs a single architect so much as it needs the right writers on the right books being allowed to tell the best story they can. Just give Hickman a title and let him go to town. I wouldn't mind reading a long, meticulously plotted story line featuring a DC franchise master minded by Hickman. LoSH, Metal Men, Infinity Inc, the Terrifics, Hardware, the Green Lanterns are all up his alley.

[John Venus]

I have found DC comics to be progressively less interesting over the years, while I have thoroughly enjoyed everything Hickman has done over at Marvel. I think my issue with DC comics is that the conflict (via the villain) is highly repetitive and not interesting.

Batman keeps facing Joker, and while many like Joker, I find him to just be the same chaotic evil character. Batman non-Joker story arcs are just transition issues until the next Joker-based event, without there being any connection between Joker events.
Compare that to Hickman's Fantastic Four. Doctor Doom is to Reed/F4 as Joker is to Batman. Hickman uses Doom in different ways (bad guy, good guy, grey guy), and each appearance ties into the overall story that he is telling.

DC's Perpetua/Dark Metal events could be seen as being similar to Hickman's Avengers (both are cosmic events, with universe ending complications). Where DC faltered was focusing too much on Perpetua (and Batman who Laughs), who are both poorly defined characters that are antagonists just because (BwL's whole shtick is "I'm Joker so I'm evil, but I'm Batman so I'm good at it"). The heroes constantly lose just because evil is pervasive, they ultimately lose, and then have to figure out how to win (which they don't really). The final battle (Wonder Woman vs BwL) is essentially an overt Good v Evil fight as WW & BWL don't have any real personal connection, with the added meta layer of 'truth' being drizzled over it.

With Hickman's Avengers series, whose Beyonders serve a similar role, aren't really the focus of the story. Beyonders are inherently less interesting as characters than flawed heroes and villains trying to do good. The heroes are winning but still losing (Re: Incursions), then they ultimately lose, and then have to figure out a way to win. The final battle (Reed vs Victor) is reflective of these character's long history, their consistent difference in ideology, and is not about Good vs Evil but about the means of how to do good.

I agree about DC recycling plots way too much. My other criticism would also be that when a character becomes popular it feels like they are swallowing the line whole. Death Metal felt like it went on forever and it involved every body. As if the entire universe has to have the same coat of paint on it.

At least with Marvel, if I needed a break from Hickman I can read Ewing's Hulk run or the latest Black Widow book.

[Dioman-san]

Yes, but i don't think we will ever see Hickman for the moment with this project with the X-men and the direction of DC who must search to do benefice in priority because the damage caused by Didio. Maybe some years later when the Infinite Frontier era is finish in 2-3 years

[EmeraldGladiator]

He is good with cosmic scope stories/world building so I would give him LoSH and let him have it, leave it insulated from most DC linewide events. Also give him the Green Lantern Corps book as well. Let him build up DC's cosmic side.

[lemonpeace]

well if we're just pitching Hickman/DC projects, sign me up for a Hickman Outsiders epic! I'm dying for DC to finally let the Outsiders expand beyond Batman's back up team of black ops metas and the like. since Snyder already opened up a world of possibilities with metahumans and Nth metal, he could potentially revitalize the Outsiders like he did the X-Men.

either that or let him relaunch Justice League Odyssey.

[Multiverse]

well if we're just pitching Hickman/DC projects, sign me up for a Hickman Outsiders epic! I'm dying for DC to finally let the Outsiders expand beyond Batman's back up team of black ops metas and the like. since Snyder already opened up a world of possibilities with metahumans and Nth metal, he could potentially revitalize the Outsiders like he did the X-Men.

either that or let him relaunch Justice League Odyssey.

Yeah, The Outsiders are long overdue for a revamp.

[EmeraldGladiator]

One can argue there was a time Geoff Johns saved DC, his Flash, Teen Titans, JSA, then GL and finally JLA were the hottest things this side of Batman, and in the case of Green Lantern hotter than Batman during that run. I have no reason to think that Hickman couldn't do the same.

[Citizen Kane]

DC doesn't need "saving", and after that mediocre X-Men run of his, I'd rather he not get his hands on the main DC universe in any capacity. However, if he wanted to do a LosH story...

[EmeraldGladiator]

Not only does DC not need "saving", after that mediocre X-Mne run of his, I'd rather him not get his hands on the main DC universe in any capacity. However, if he wanted to do a LosH story...

Actually I think he really wanted to go to DC and do the Legion, he had told all the Marvel stories he wanted to tell, but Marvel made him an offer he could not refuse. Now that I think about it some of what he is doing in X-Men he probably would have done with the Legion. Couldn't be Krakoa but the whole resurrection stuff could have be in a way to explain the multiple versions of the Legion, and they did just have an election...

[SiegePerilous02]

Neither the Legion or the Titans are in any position to turn down a writer like Hickman and he's expressed interest in both properties.

He can't save DC as a whole (not one creator could or should be able to do that), but her can certainly save those. It's not as if there isn't anywhere to go but up for either of them.

[madmodpoetgod]

His comics always look ahead, and he infuses enough dose of sleekness into anything he writes.
Titans, Legion, and Flash... They need that modern, updated approach so badly.

[madmodpoetgod]

Actually I think he really wanted to go to DC and do the Legion, he had told all the Marvel stories he wanted to tell, but Marvel made him an offer he could not refuse. Now that I think about it some of what he is doing in X-Men he probably would have done with the Legion. Couldn't be Krakoa but the whole resurrection stuff could have be in a way to explain the multiple versions of the Legion, and they did just have an election...

Exactly. X-men info pages are Legion 5 Years Later, and the election takes me back to the Baxter era.