Justice Society Movie Complaint *SPOILERS*

[BiteTheBullet]

I mean this is Golden age Wonder Woman. Which is a bit weak.

Does that mean AQ in the Golden age is stronger? I remember him being treated as a joke years ago. Wouldn't this have been under the Golden Age umbrella?

[Frontier]

Sure, if we are talking about AQ and his powers while he is in water, then great. But to go toe to toe with what we think is a powerhouse in Wonder Woman on land and is beating her all the while showing that he is at least, if not more, as strong than WW, then whatever.

All I can hope for is for Wonder Woman to only have solo animated or live movies so we don't have to worry about other heroes anymore and her jobbing out to them. Of course, in my head canon, we can leave WW84 out of this mix! Maybe treat it as an elseworlds story like the Azz Nu52 series.

From what I hear, the fight on land is more even, but Aquaman has been depicted as being fairly strong and invulnerable outside the water for a while now.

[Rightoya]

They've been bumping up Aquaman to powerhouse status for a while now. I'd say he's not necessarily as strong as the super, super, powerhouses but he's up there even if he has other stuff (his trident, command of sea life) that bolsters that.

They tried now and then, but they just failed to be honest, because they never systematically build him up to be a true powerhouse.
Wonder Woman typically either looks weak, incompetent, or both in these scenes, and it is still almost as hard as before to buy that Aquaman could threaten kryptonians or major lanterns who are not jobbing around. As an example, this don't makes Aquaman look like a powerhouse, it just makes both look like idiots who can't fight, don't know how to use their powers, and are helpless to telepathy:



If they want to make Aquaman a powerhouse, they should do it for real, or stop pretending with half assed trash if don't.

I mean this is Golden age Wonder Woman. Which is a bit weak.

You must talk about the very early parts of the Golden Age, because this is the opposite of weak:

[WonderLight789]

From what I hear, the fight on land is more even, but Aquaman has been depicted as being fairly strong and invulnerable outside the water for a while now.

he was still shown as stronger on land. So now she is not even a physical match for aq. Sad.

[SteveGus]

I enjoyed the action sequences and did not think she was shorthanged physically. My bigger beef with the plot was the absence of the lasso. At some point she definitely should have become aware that Aquaman was being mind controlled. The connection of the lasso with Truth is also established for the film version. The solution was right there at her hip.

[Alpha]

These questions are mostly for Bitethebullet and Mystical41.

Should Aquaman be as strong as Big Barda?
Should Wonder Woman be as strong as Big Barda?
Should Big Barda be as strong as Orion, the son of Darkseid?
What is your arbitrary rule for the strength level of these characters (please refrain from using the Diana daughter of Zeus origin, most people hate it including me).

[Frontier]

They tried now and then, but they just failed to be honest, because they never systematically build him up to be a true powerhouse.
Wonder Woman typically either looks weak, incompetent, or both in these scenes, and it is still almost as hard as before to buy that Aquaman could threaten kryptonians or major lanterns who are not jobbing around. As an example, this don't makes Aquaman look like a powerhouse, it just makes both look like idiots who can't fight, don't know how to use their powers, and are helpless to telepathy:



If they want to make Aquaman a powerhouse, they should do it for real, or stop pretending with half assed trash if don't.



You must talk about the very early parts of the Golden Age, because this is the opposite of weak:

It feels like it's been pretty consistent since Geoff Johns started writing him.

[AmiMizuno]

Does that mean AQ in the Golden age is stronger? I remember him being treated as a joke years ago. Wouldn't this have been under the Golden Age umbrella?

To be honest I don't know about AQ

[Perseus]

These questions are mostly for Bitethebullet and Mystical41.

Should Aquaman be as strong as Big Barda?
Should Wonder Woman be as strong as Big Barda?
Should Big Barda be as strong as Orion, the son of Darkseid?
What is your arbitrary rule for the strength level of these characters (please refrain from using the Diana daughter of Zeus origin, most people hate it including me).

I know its not fully directed at me but I can answer them.

1. Barda has fought physically tougher opponents then Aquaman, so no.

2. Diana has actually bested Barda at least twice to my knowledge and she has better feats, so I can say she's stronger.

3. Orion has proven stronger then Barda because he can fight Darkseid solo and she can't. I'd argue that Orion is stronger then Superman and Diana were this a contest of pure strength and nothing more.

4. My "arbitrary rule" is the consistency of how they are mostly portrayed or hyped (Statements, Scaling, Feats) based off of villains they fight, the level they operate on average to insane during outings, power ups given during their tenure, and general word of mouth from writers, creators, artists etc...

I don't really see here your point about her origin outside of taste seeing as Post-Crisis Wondy is consistently better then Nu52 based off of Scaling and Feats aka the usual measurements to judge a characters abilities and powers. But go ahead, continue to pretend that this is above you in someway, and watch as this character ping pongs in all her physical stats between being somewhat kind of a powerhouse and only being "powerful" against canon fodder like humans, parademons, and the like.

[Alpha]

I know its not fully directed at me but I can answer them.

1. Barda has fought physically tougher opponents then Aquaman, so no.

Like who?

Also, are Atlanteans and Amazons equally strong? Where do New Gods fit in this scale?

And Diana beating Barda doesn't make her stronger. Of course I haven't read these fights, but I'm sure it doesn't come down to strength.

Finally, I literally don't care about how strong Diana is. It doesn't make her stories more or less entertaining. I want her to use her powers and abilities in interesting ways, but I don't care about who is stronger.

And what point are you trying to make about Diana's origin? I was saying I don't want people to mention that she should have "half the strength of Zeus because she is his daughter" since I don't even accept that origin.

[I'm a Fish]

It feels like it's been pretty consistent since Geoff Johns started writing him.

Same, as consistent as comic book characters can be anyway.

Although I think they made him completely bullet proof whereas in Johns run his skin wasn’t. But that’s because of Jason Mamoa being allergic to his shirt so now Aquaman doesn’t wear his armor in the comics anymore.

[BiteTheBullet]

These questions are mostly for Bitethebullet and Mystical41.

Should Aquaman be as strong as Big Barda?
Should Wonder Woman be as strong as Big Barda?
Should Big Barda be as strong as Orion, the son of Darkseid?
What is your arbitrary rule for the strength level of these characters (please refrain from using the Diana daughter of Zeus origin, most people hate it including me).

It doesn't matter what I think with this game you are playing. The editors/writers/powers to be have already told me of the jobber/street level status of Wonder Woman!

How is it so often we have to question whether Diana has the power of flight? We had to go thru 4 live action movies before she could fly and then she never uses the power in BvS or JL? 12 issues of Azz run before Hermes gave her a feather to fly. How many sensational stories where she doesn't have a full powerset? And in the latest movie, she doesn't fly which is kind of telling to me that they are trying to phase that out for her to go full on Xena Super Warrior. Heck, even her first animated movie she couldn't fly and that was with Gail Simone having some writing duties on the script (I think she was writing Wonder Woman at the time so it wasn't like she didn't know what her powerset was).

And everytime we get a new creative team, we get no idea of what her powerset should be. In the current creative run, are her powers defined yet? Are the writers so backed in a corner that they need to depower her in order to tell the story they want to tell? Many of the writers seem to do this. Gail Simone did with the "Ends of the Earth' arc as well as her Conan/Wonder Woman graphic novel.

Besides, you can't cherry pick her origins just because you don't like them. Is she the daughter of Zeus or not? Otherwise, I will assume that she had a clay birth and was given her powers from the Greek Goddesses including Hermes himself as evidenced by the George Perez version (that is alot of Gods and Goddesses giving her powers). Any of these two versions put her on par with the New Gods. There are also degrees from within the New Gods that make some more powerful than others, so just saying she is in the same playing field as the new Gods does not necessarily make it so that she can take them all on! I wouldn't expect her to take on and beat Darkseid by herself, but play an important role like in the Justice League War movie.

Otherwise, in my head canon, she should be superstrong, superfast, close to Superman but not quite. She should be the best melee fighter in the DC Universe and with her speed and reflexes, any non-meta should not even have a shot against her. People like Batman, Shiva, Black Canary and the like should not even be able to touch her one on one! Against Superman, I can see her going toe to toe with him and taking him out 3-4 times out of 10. Her skills and lasso would be deciding factors, as well as her magic sword if she needs it.

[I'm a Fish]

It doesn't matter what I think with this game you are playing. The editors/writers/powers to be have already told me of the jobber/street level status of Wonder Woman!

How is it so often we have to question whether Diana has the power of flight? We had to go thru 4 live action movies before she could fly and then she never uses the power in BvS or JL? 12 issues of Azz run before Hermes gave her a feather to fly. How many sensational stories where she doesn't have a full powerset? And in the latest movie, she doesn't fly which is kind of telling to me that they are trying to phase that out for her to go full on Xena Super Warrior. Heck, even her first animated movie she couldn't fly and that was with Gail Simone having some writing duties on the script (I think she was writing Wonder Woman at the time so it wasn't like she didn't know what her powerset was).

And everytime we get a new creative team, we get no idea of what her powerset should be. In the current creative run, are her powers defined yet? Are the writers so backed in a corner that they need to depower her in order to tell the story they want to tell? Many of the writers seem to do this. Gail Simone did with the "Ends of the Earth' arc as well as her Conan/Wonder Woman graphic novel.

Besides, you can't cherry pick her origins just because you don't like them. Is she the daughter of Zeus or not? Otherwise, I will assume that she had a clay birth and was given her powers from the Greek Goddesses including Hermes himself as evidenced by the George Perez version (that is alot of Gods and Goddesses giving her powers). Any of these two versions put her on par with the New Gods. There are also degrees from within the New Gods that make some more powerful than others, so just saying she is in the same playing field as the new Gods does not necessarily make it so that she can take them all on! I wouldn't expect her to take on and beat Darkseid by herself, but play an important role like in the Justice League War movie.

Otherwise, in my head canon, she should be superstrong, superfast, close to Superman but not quite. She should be the best melee fighter in the DC Universe and with her speed and reflexes, any non-meta should not even have a shot against her. People like Batman, Shiva, Black Canary and the like should not even be able to touch her one on one! Against Superman, I can see her going toe to toe with him and taking him out 3-4 times out of 10. Her skills and lasso would be deciding factors, as well as her magic sword if she needs it.

I agree that it's annoying that we won't know if she will be able to fly for each animated movie, but this Earth's Superman couldn't fly either, so they both gave them the powers they had when they debuted.

[BiteTheBullet]

I agree that it's annoying that we won't know if she will be able to fly for each animated movie, but this Earth's Superman couldn't fly either, so they both gave them the powers they had when they debuted.

As for the furies who are also supposed to be New Gods, Diana is seen to have no trouble fighting and beating them. Her and Barda took on 4 of the furies at once with Diana doing most of the ass-kicking in this case (see Superman/Batman Apocalypse). So while she couldn't take on a new God like Darkseid by herself, she does just fine against others, usually coming out on top. (Unless she jobs to Kalibak in the Justice League animated series)

[Alpha]

How is it so often we have to question whether Diana has the power of flight? We had to go thru 4 live action movies before she could fly and then she never uses the power in BvS or JL? 12 issues of Azz run before Hermes gave her a feather to fly. How many sensational stories where she doesn't have a full powerset? And in the latest movie, she doesn't fly which is kind of telling to me that they are trying to phase that out for her to go full on Xena Super Warrior. Heck, even her first animated movie she couldn't fly and that was with Gail Simone having some writing duties on the script (I think she was writing Wonder Woman at the time so it wasn't like she didn't know what her powerset was).

Besides, you can't cherry pick her origins just because you don't like them. Is she the daughter of Zeus or not? Otherwise, I will assume that she had a clay birth and was given her powers from the Greek Goddesses including Hermes himself as evidenced by the George Perez version (that is alot of Gods and Goddesses giving her powers). Any of these two versions put her on par with the New Gods. There are also degrees from within the New Gods that make some more powerful than others, so just saying she is in the same playing field as the new Gods does not necessarily make it so that she can take them all on! I wouldn't expect her to take on and beat Darkseid by herself, but play an important role like in the Justice League War movie.

I'm not cherry picking, I want the Marston origin back. No blessing from the gods and no flight. The Golden Age Wonder Woman was much more developed and perfected than golden age Superman and Batman. In fact, she actually lost a lot when she entered the silver age. Wonder Woman should be just like a human being, except far stronger and much more durable, and with the amazing tool that is the lasso of truth. Flight adds nothing. Her lasso can extend infinitely, if she needs to get somewhere she can use it to pull herself to anything, or just jump super high. She gains absolutely nothing as a superhero by flying. It's not like we constantly see her get into situations where she wouldn't be able to do anything if she couldn't fly.

Otherwise, in my head canon, she should be superstrong, superfast, close to Superman but not quite. She should be the best melee fighter in the DC Universe and with her speed and reflexes, any non-meta should not even have a shot against her. People like Batman, Shiva, Black Canary and the like should not even be able to touch her one on one! Against Superman, I can see her going toe to toe with him and taking him out 3-4 times out of 10. Her skills and lasso would be deciding factors, as well as her magic sword if she needs it.

I'm wondering then, why can't Wonder Woman be stronger than Superman in your view? If you can't answer this than your rules are in fact arbitrary. Which is fine, but you are pretending that there are obvious reasons for Aquaman to be a weakling and Wonder Woman to annhilate him without a chance.