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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    I didn't find the fight with Aquaman to be insulting to Wonder Woman. She gave him a good fight. It's not like he tossed her around like a rag doll plus he was being controlled and he had his trident in hand which probably increases his abilities somewhat. Also these are the Earth 2 versions of the characters which are noticeably different from the main earth counterparts.

    All in all, I really enjoyed the movie. The voices and action sequences were great. The surprise with E2 Superman was nice. I'm glad that neither he nor Diana were able to fly which kept things close to their roots. It would have been nice if a Wonder Woman villain was at the center of the plot(i.e. Duke or Deception or Dr. Psycho).
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I didn't find the fight with Aquaman to be insulting to Wonder Woman. She gave him a good fight. It's not like he tossed her around like a rag doll plus he was being controlled and he had his trident in hand which probably increases his abilities somewhat. Also these are the Earth 2 versions of the characters which are noticeably different from the main earth counterparts.

    All in all, I really enjoyed the movie. The voices and action sequences were great. The surprise with E2 Superman was nice. I'm glad that neither he nor Diana were able to fly which kept things close to their roots. It would have been nice if a Wonder Woman villain was at the center of the plot(i.e. Duke or Deception or Dr. Psycho).
    My problem with the movie isn't that Wonder Woman wasn't causing earthquakes every time she does anything, it's that they used Aquaman and Psycho Pirate instead of Queen Clea. THAT is a travesty as Aquaman only was there to have someone strong enough to feasibly fight Wonder Woman (He was such a pushover the second the trident and mind control were broken). I get that they didn't want to clutter the movie with too many characters but having Queen Clea instead of Aquaman and getting rid of Psycho Pirate (who I didn't recognize) would have meant less characters, not more. We wouldn't have to have scenes of Arthur breaking character to show that this universe Aquaman isn't evil or Psycho Pirate's explanation to the heroes about how he got down there.

  3. #33
    The Last Dragon Perseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Like who?

    Also, are Atlanteans and Amazons equally strong? Where do New Gods fit in this scale?

    And Diana beating Barda doesn't make her stronger. Of course I haven't read these fights, but I'm sure it doesn't come down to strength.

    Finally, I literally don't care about how strong Diana is. It doesn't make her stories more or less entertaining. I want her to use her powers and abilities in interesting ways, but I don't care about who is stronger.

    And what point are you trying to make about Diana's origin? I was saying I don't want people to mention that she should have "half the strength of Zeus because she is his daughter" since I don't even accept that origin.
    DC's version of Thor for one, Diana herself, other New Gods....

    Yes, an Atlantean and an Amazon are basically equal in physicals...But no matter what origin you want for Diana she's never been a "regular" amazon, she's always more powerful, far more powerful. Same with Aquaman.

    New Gods have always been more powerful, like stupidly more powerful, then Atlanteans and Amazons like what? this has been the case since the New Gods inception..... atlanteans and amazons are just super humans, like Cap. America.

    Its not just fights you know, Diana has won them, but I can also just look up what they've both done respectively and judge that too, Diana would still roughly come out on top.

    I'm very aware you don't care about how powerful Diana is, oddly enough very few writers seem to as well, and I've never heard any praise for they're stories either, funny that.

    You aren't speaking to people in a youtube comment section, Also what is wrong with people believing or wanting her to be more powerful because she's Zeus's daughter? That was the whole point as to why DC changed it. I don't like it either but, its a valid criticism since they constantly hype her up then give us disappointing showings.
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  4. #34
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I'm not cherry picking, I want the Marston origin back. No blessing from the gods and no flight. The Golden Age Wonder Woman was much more developed and perfected than golden age Superman and Batman. In fact, she actually lost a lot when she entered the silver age. Wonder Woman should be just like a human being, except far stronger and much more durable, and with the amazing tool that is the lasso of truth. Flight adds nothing. Her lasso can extend infinitely, if she needs to get somewhere she can use it to pull herself to anything, or just jump super high. She gains absolutely nothing as a superhero by flying. It's not like we constantly see her get into situations where she wouldn't be able to do anything if she couldn't fly.



    I'm wondering then, why can't Wonder Woman be stronger than Superman in your view? If you can't answer this than your rules are in fact arbitrary. Which is fine, but you are pretending that there are obvious reasons for Aquaman to be a weakling and Wonder Woman to annhilate him without a chance.
    I can't help it if you want a street fighter flightless Wondy. That is your personal opinion which is not what she is supposed to be currently in the comics or the movies. At least, for you, they got the power levels right in WW84 when she was slowly losing them. You must have hated it when she started flying later, even as bad as that looked, she now officially should be flying in future movies (unless we are talking Synder of course).

    I know and have known that Superman is the top dog when it comes to feats and strength in the DC Universe. I just don't see the difference between the two should be upper Tier 1 versus lower Tier 2.

    As far as AQ is concerned, ever since the Perez reboot and including the Zeus origin, I have never considered AQ to be on the same level as Wonder Woman. He maybe able to take her down in the water in a hard fought battle, but he should be getting his ass kicked otherwise when water is not involved. Is there a reason that her superior speed and combat skills should not be able to do this?

  5. #35
    The Last Dragon Perseus's Avatar
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    I happen to think Diana should be on Clark's physical level and should pull 7-8 wins out of 10, but that's me.
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  6. #36
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I'm not cherry picking, I want the Marston origin back. No blessing from the gods and no flight. The Golden Age Wonder Woman was much more developed and perfected than golden age Superman and Batman. In fact, she actually lost a lot when she entered the silver age. Wonder Woman should be just like a human being, except far stronger and much more durable, and with the amazing tool that is the lasso of truth. Flight adds nothing. Her lasso can extend infinitely, if she needs to get somewhere she can use it to pull herself to anything, or just jump super high. She gains absolutely nothing as a superhero by flying. It's not like we constantly see her get into situations where she wouldn't be able to do anything if she couldn't fly.



    I'm wondering then, why can't Wonder Woman be stronger than Superman in your view? If you can't answer this than your rules are in fact arbitrary. Which is fine, but you are pretending that there are obvious reasons for Aquaman to be a weakling and Wonder Woman to annhilate him without a chance.
    If you want Marston WW. Then i don't know why you complain with all of us when we say she has been reduced in power. I also think Marston WW was very well developed in many aspects. And she was also super crazy powerful during Marston era. So what is wrong with wanting her to be that powerful again?

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I didn't find the fight with Aquaman to be insulting to Wonder Woman. She gave him a good fight. It's not like he tossed her around like a rag doll plus he was being controlled and he had his trident in hand which probably increases his abilities somewhat. Also these are the Earth 2 versions of the characters which are noticeably different from the main earth counterparts.

    All in all, I really enjoyed the movie. The voices and action sequences were great. The surprise with E2 Superman was nice. I'm glad that neither he nor Diana were able to fly which kept things close to their roots. It would have been nice if a Wonder Woman villain was at the center of the plot(i.e. Duke or Deception or Dr. Psycho).
    It was insulting. AQ was able to overpower her on land. And steve had to help her to give her some time to recover. WW keeps getting weaker and weaker.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    My problem with the movie isn't that Wonder Woman wasn't causing earthquakes every time she does anything, it's that they used Aquaman and Psycho Pirate instead of Queen Clea. THAT is a travesty as Aquaman only was there to have someone strong enough to feasibly fight Wonder Woman (He was such a pushover the second the trident and mind control were broken). I get that they didn't want to clutter the movie with too many characters but having Queen Clea instead of Aquaman and getting rid of Psycho Pirate (who I didn't recognize) would have meant less characters, not more. We wouldn't have to have scenes of Arthur breaking character to show that this universe Aquaman isn't evil or Psycho Pirate's explanation to the heroes about how he got down there.

    Believe me, I'm dying for a Queen Clea appearance just about anywhere but why would she side with the Nazis? They are polar opposites when you consider Nazis were more about male superiority and Clea is about female superiority. I suppose they could have had Clea trying to trick the Nazis into letting their guard down but that almost seems to easy of a plot. I do agree that Psycho Pirate was unrecognizable though.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Believe me, I'm dying for a Queen Clea appearance just about anywhere but why would she side with the Nazis? They are polar opposites when you consider Nazis were more about male superiority and Clea is about female superiority. I suppose they could have had Clea trying to trick the Nazis into letting their guard down but that almost seems to easy of a plot. I do agree that Psycho Pirate was unrecognizable though.
    Clea would team with the Nazis for the same reason Psycho Pirate was supposedly using Aquaman, to help them wipe the opposition out and then wipe them out afterward. From what I saw with the discussion that Psycho Pirate had with Aquaman, it seemed that Psycho Pirate really didn't care about the Nazi cause. I felt they should have just merged the characters together into Clea. Psycho Pirate's scheme and murder of Steve and Aquaman's brute force, trident, and Atlantean Army could have all just been Clea. Aquaman was there just for Wonder Woman to have a heavy hitter to fight (and as you can see from this thread people took it as an insult), and he became a chump as soon as the Trident was broken (which ALSO is perfect for Clea).
    Last edited by Mistah K88; 04-30-2021 at 05:06 PM.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    My problem with the movie isn't that Wonder Woman wasn't causing earthquakes every time she does anything, it's that they used Aquaman and Psycho Pirate instead of Queen Clea. THAT is a travesty as Aquaman only was there to have someone strong enough to feasibly fight Wonder Woman (He was such a pushover the second the trident and mind control were broken). I get that they didn't want to clutter the movie with too many characters but having Queen Clea instead of Aquaman and getting rid of Psycho Pirate (who I didn't recognize) would have meant less characters, not more. We wouldn't have to have scenes of Arthur breaking character to show that this universe Aquaman isn't evil or Psycho Pirate's explanation to the heroes about how he got down there.
    I wouldnt be against it but it isnt a WW movie. They want to push certain characters and Aquaman is one of those characters that is semi important to them,

  11. #41
    Spectacular Member Gitagon's Avatar
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    DC is always ready to mis-portray Wonder Woman. Zero consistency at all. This is a main thing I hate about comics and comic adaptations that you would never get in other media like anime (Tired argument, I know).

    Wonder Woman is a planetary character in terms of strength while Aquaman's best strength feats barely scratch continental.

    I don't even want to mention speed cause that annoys the heck out of me. On one hand we have stuff like Shattered God feat and Wonder Woman's combat speed being acknowledged as > Superman. We have her beating Hermes/Mercury in a straight up race yet here we are. She's struggling with slow characters who barely scratch Lightspeed.

    As for weapons and "skill", DC has always used them as excuses to nerf Wonder Woman. They simply don't want her to be a top dog. There's like several top dog dudes in DC while only a few women scratch the S tier yet even for them, nerfing is rampant as ever but mostly for Diana.

    We have seen her get progressively weaker every decade. At this point she's just a shadow of her former self in terms of strength.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    I wouldnt be against it but it isnt a WW movie. They want to push certain characters and Aquaman is one of those characters that is semi important to them,
    Sadly WW is not even semi important to them and this year is her anniversary. Yet here we are. Seeing her overpowered by AQ on land. And lacking the skills, super speed and flight. As we see she didn't show any superior speed or skill to AQ. Very sad how the standard has fallen.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Otherwise, in my head canon, she should be superstrong, superfast, close to Superman but not quite. She should be the best melee fighter in the DC Universe and with her speed and reflexes, any non-meta should not even have a shot against her. People like Batman, Shiva, Black Canary and the like should not even be able to touch her one on one! Against Superman, I can see her going toe to toe with him and taking him out 3-4 times out of 10. Her skills and lasso would be deciding factors, as well as her magic sword if she needs it.
    Should be 5/10, and definitively not slower.
    Last edited by Rightoya; 04-30-2021 at 06:27 PM.

  14. #44
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Me wanting Diana to be like a human being but ridiculously stronger doesn't make her a street fighter whatsoever. Is Hulk a streetfighter?

    Seems like nobody wants to answer my question about Diana flying. We never see Diana in situations where flying allows her to solve a situation she otherwise couldn't, even with her lasso and super high jumps. So how does flying help Wonder Woman as a character?

    I'm not saying people can't approve Daddy Zeus, I'm saying I don't recognize that origin so it's pointless for anybody to discuss her strength level with me and justify it using Zeus.

    And finally, Diana's strength level will never make her more popular. Martian Manhunter is a pretty interesting character that in a lot of instances can beat Superman, but despite that he doesn't even have a regular book. What makes characters popular are the things they can do (which means that Diana needs to use her powers creatively, regardless of her power scale) plus having appealing personalities and fascinating stories. This is why we should complain about the lasso. It's her unique tool that can be used for unique action scenes but rarely is (shout out to WW84 for using the lasso like never before). We can complain about Diana having a boring personality in JS WW2. We can complain about any story where Diana fights a civil war with the gods since it's the most overused plot ever.

    I'm really tired of these discussions about Aquaman vs Wonder Woman and how strong Diana should be. It's a very boring topic. So I probably will ignore it from now on.

  15. #45
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Sadly WW is not even semi important to them and this year is her anniversary. Yet here we are. Seeing her overpowered by AQ on land. And lacking the skills, super speed and flight. As we see she didn't show any superior speed or skill to AQ. Very sad how the standard has fallen.
    If DC didn't care about Wonder Woman we wouldn't have this much content this year. Aquaman doesn't even have a book right now.

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