Black Panther Oscars 2019 hype?

[Username taken]

It might not even mean that, They(awards) have been notoriously bias against genre films(heck they were notoriously bias against black people and women as well). 1994 it would have been good enough to get in but awards show voters would have a bias that comic book movies aren't high art. There has been vast work to break down barriers in Hollywood and has been slowly get being better. There was literally campaign Oscars so white and like magic the next year they found more minority candidates.

Anyways Black Panther got nominated because of The Dark Knight in 2008 there only 5 candidates. 2009 they were 9 candidates for Best picture. The year after TDK got snub they voted to extended amount of candidates for Best picture so that situation wouldn't happen again.

Very true.

Unfortunately, the Oscars themselves haven't even taken advantage of the expanded best picture bracket.

For some reasons, genre movies have been completely excluded (which wasn't the case in the past because movies like Indiana Jones and Star Wars got noms) and minority led movies were routinely ignored (especially black led movies). Genre movies are still being treated like the red-headed stepchild..i still don't get why movies like Midsommar and Hereditary get totally snubbed but with the change in the composition of the Academy voters, we're getting a lot more minority led projects nominated than before.

[Castle]

It might not even mean that, They(awards) have been notoriously bias against genre films(heck they were notoriously bias against black people and women as well). 1994 it would have been good enough to get in but awards show voters would have a bias that comic book movies aren't high art. There has been vast work to break down barriers in Hollywood and has been slowly get being better. There was literally campaign Oscars so white and like magic the next year they found more minority candidates.

Anyways Black Panther got nominated because of The Dark Knight in 2008 there only 5 candidates. 2009 they were 9 candidates for Best picture. The year after TDK got snub they voted to extended amount of candidates for Best picture so that situation wouldn't happen again.

Black Panther was not nominated because of the dark knight. lol. the dark knight 's nomination was a lot about artistic aspect of the movie, the question was, should a comic film that can be very artistic as the dark knight get nominated. the answer was yes, so they extended it to 10.

Logan came out a year before the dark knight, but was not nominated for best picture though got the other best picture twin, that is screenplay.
Black Panther nomination was purely politics. Logan and dark knight was more of the craft of the movies.Winter Solider as already mentioned that is called the best MCU movie objectively, came out 7 years after TDK and was not nominated.

The idea that Black Panther was nominated because of TDK makes no sense, because TDK back then did not even have a big 3 cgi third act, that usually even hurts what is already know to be generic comic films. Great comics films of the 2000s, where not allowed to have big cgi final fights. This is one of the most high points of TDK.



At this point TDK had become like Training Day. this is why it deserved to be nominated. Let not even discuss the last 20 minutes of black panther that is just bad CGI stuff, it is not even a top 5 of marvel cgi action scenes in the overall MCU that have been already criticised.

TDK and Black Panther have two different stories and are not alike. Black Panther does not even have the great arguments of Avatar that is purely a VFX movie because Avatar VFX were ground breaking... Enough to be nominated as visual art film for best picture even though the story was not the best.

[Castle]

I also remember when WB and some hard core DC fans wanted Wonder Woman to be nominated and Patty and Gal even campaigned but most of us knew, wonder woman will never get nominated because the final cgi fight was a problem and the Oscars would not just nominated a female lead comic film. that same logical argument that was applied with wonder woman, was also used with black panther but Disney been powerful found a way to still get black panther a nomination and that really hurt the credibility of the movie

https://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-...jenkins-oscar/

Can I just also mention, Wonder woman have been more seducing to the Oscars because it was A Patty Jenkins movie with much better CGI and central focused lead.

Both MCU, DCU and all Comic fans should think about this aspect. Being a woman or a person of color, is not just guarantee you will get it based on your craft just because the Oscars in a split hour decide to be political and forgo the academic aspect of movies that is not meant to be racist or sexist because everyone will be judged based on how good their work actually is. not by their gender or race.

This is part of the reasons why the Oscars cannot get ratings anymore.

[Killerbee911]

Black Panther was not nominated because of the dark knight. lol. the dark knight 's nomination was a lot about artistic aspect of the movie, the question was, should a comic film that can be very artistic as the dark knight get nominated. the answer was yes, so they extended it to 10.

The Dark Knight opened the way that wider selection of movies get nominated for best picture.

[BeastieRunner]

The Dark Knight opened the way that wider selection of movies get nominated for best picture.

LotR paved the way for DK ... DK paved the way Birdman ... Birdman paved the way for Shape of Water ... Shape of Water paved the way for Black Panther ...Black Panther paved the way for ... etc.

It's not a "this is better than that" but a "this got a fair look because of that" issue, IMHO. They all built up each other.

And Black Panther > Dark Knight. That coda at the end of DK with Two-Face really killed the pace of the film for me. It should've ended with Joker swinging and laughing. The film had a chaos element that I thought should've been left open-ended to drive it home.

But that is a nitpick and I still enjoy both a lot.

[BeastieRunner]

Also the fact that Chadwick wasn't nominated in the acting category was a little surprising. I thought he might have gotten a push.

Bale, DaFoe, and Viggo really turned it in that year but Bradley Cooper over Chadwick ... I dunno. I'd go with Chadwick's performance.

I thought BlacKkKlansman had better performances top-to-bottom than those 5 that year, IMHO.

Spidey won that year, so I can't complain too much.

[Cyke]

Did it deserve "Best picture". I don't know.

Did it deserve the nominations- absolutely.

Yeah, this is a simple but important distinction. Nomination vs. winning are two different things. "I'm happy just to be nominated."

And of course, like many other things, it still boils down to preference. I remember when Gladiator won best picture and thinking that, for me, it was the least deserving of the nominees that year.

[BeastieRunner]

Yeah, this is a simple but important distinction. Nomination vs. winning are two different things. "I'm happy just to be nominated."

And of course, like many other things, it still boils down to preference. I remember when Gladiator won best picture and thinking that, for me, it was the least deserving of the nominees that year.

Chocolat, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Erin Brockovich, or Traffic?

Gladiator is one of my all-time favorite movies so I have bias here but you liked Chocolat and Traffic better? Erin Brockovich got in because of Julia Robert's performance but the rest of the cast (maybe not DeVito) kind of bombed through Susannah Grant's script.

I thought Cast Away was going to win it all that year and was super bummed about that prospect but then Chocolat was announced as the last nominee. That shocked the hell out of me.

I would've been fine with CTHD winning as I really enjoyed that movie, too.

[Scott Taylor]

Comic book movies generally don't have that much depth to them. Black Panther included. It touched on racism and being black in America, but even Falcon and Winter Soldier did a much better job dealing with the issue than BP. TDK wasn't that great, even though it had a great performance by Ledger. Logan was a fun ride but not even close to Oscar material.

Generally for comic book movies I'm with Scorcese:

"Many of the elements that define cinema as I know it are there in Marvel pictures. What's not there is revelation, mystery or genuine emotional danger. Nothing is at risk. The pictures are made to satisfy a specific set of demands, and they are designed as variations on a finite number of themes.”

Remember Superman 1978's Academy Award? It got a "Special Achievement" Oscar, which is the Oscar specifically created for stuff like comic book films or films that the Academy feels need recognition but can't really justify them being great movies.

[Cyke]

Chocolat, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Erin Brockovich, or Traffic?

Gladiator is one of my all-time favorite movies so I have bias here but you liked Chocolat and Traffic better? Erin Brockovich got in because of Julia Robert's performance but the rest of the cast (maybe not DeVito) kind of bombed through Susannah Grant's script.

I thought Cast Away was going to win it all that year and was super bummed about that prospect but then Chocolat was announced as the last nominee. That shocked the hell out of me.

I would've been fine with CTHD winning as I really enjoyed that movie, too.

It would've been huge if CTHD had won, but it really was a long shot.

But CTHD > Gladiator *breaks glass bottle*

[BeastieRunner]

It would've been huge if CTHD had won, but it really was a long shot.

But CTHD > Gladiator *breaks glass bottle*

LOL!

I can live with that.

[Castle]

LotR paved the way for DK ... DK paved the way Birdman ... Birdman paved the way for Shape of Water ... Shape of Water paved the way for Black Panther ...Black Panther paved the way for ... etc.

It's not a "this is better than that" but a "this got a fair look because of that" issue, IMHO. They all built up each other.

And Black Panther > Dark Knight. That coda at the end of DK with Two-Face really killed the pace of the film for me. It should've ended with Joker swinging and laughing. The film had a chaos element that I thought should've been left open-ended to drive it home.

But that is a nitpick and I still enjoy both a lot.

This is the last 20 min of Black Panther.


They are not even in the same film class and I am sure your film students who you once said thought Snyder was bad film maker will agree about TDK and Black Panther if you were to ask them the same question.

I dont see how the pace of Two face killed the movie, the movie flowed well because Two face story was already set at the end of act 2, not to mention act 1 of TDK, established Two Face or let me say Harvey Dent as an upstanding moral person and joker tore him down and we see the boiling point at the end. The pace was well built.

There is no film academic standings that showed the pace of the film went wrong and you have to remember this is the early or late 2000s before MCU and big CGI 3rd act. So films like TDK had to keep their dramatic paces because back then , third acts were not about big cgi set pieces. So it means the pace of drama must still function well in the film since there is no CGI action to fall back on. I can the back this up with another earlier comic film like X-Men 2 or Spiderman 2, that had no big final cgi battles as Black Panther or Endgame.

[Castle]

Yeah, this is a simple but important distinction. Nomination vs. winning are two different things. "I'm happy just to be nominated."

Nomination and wining are indeed two different things but what happens when you are a Peter O'Toole or to make it more modern a Amy Adams or Glen Close. Nominated 6 to 8 times and never won. this people want to win now. Reason I respect Kate Winslet when she once said out loud she was happy she won after getting nominated 6 times.

And of course, like many other things, it still boils down to preference. I remember when Gladiator won best picture and thinking that, for me, it was the least deserving of the nominees that year.

I think preference still measures to some logical standard, you can compare a well written Noir film like Sunset Boulevard and a well written war film like saving Private Ryan. they are equal in their own different genre, it will then now be preference to choose one over the other.

I never cared for Gladiator either, in fact the film I thought was the best film of 2000 , which was Cast Way was not even nominated for best picture. Also I wanted tom hanks to win his third oscar for best actor, because the metric of performance should have favoured him the most on screen.

Tom was on screen alone all by himself talking to a volley ball for 70 minutes of the movie and he made it very believable. Cast Away with Wilson the volley ball to me was ground breaking in acting performance but Tom lost to Russell Crowe in Gladiator, who was great in his own right.

So sure there is a standard...or used to be. The constant claim nothing is objective to try and justify pure pollical reasons for giving out awards will always be laughable to me and many other film fans what want to see the Oscars get some of their credibility back.

[BeastieRunner]

This is the last 20 min of Black Panther.


They are not even in the same film class and I am sure your film students who you once said thought Snyder was bad film maker will agree about TDK and Black Panther if you were to ask them the same question.

I dont see how the pace of Two face killed the movie, the movie flowed well because Two face story was already set at the end of act 2, not to mention act 1 of TDK, established Two Face or let me say Harvey Dent as an upstanding moral person and joker tore him down and we see the boiling point at the end. The pace was well built.

There is no film academic standings that showed the pace of the film went wrong and you have to remember this is the early or late 2000s before MCU and big CGI 3rd act. So films like TDK had to keep their dramatic paces because back then , third acts were not about big cgi set pieces. So it means the pace of drama must still function well in the film since there is no CGI action to fall back on. I can the back this up with another earlier comic film like X-Men 2 or Spiderman 2, that had no big final cgi battles as Black Panther or Endgame.

I think you misinterpret preference as meaning one is good and the other is bad.

Personally? Both are VERY artistic and it is like comparing apples and oranges.

Makeup / hair? BP.
Costumes? BP.
Music? BP.
Set Design? BP. I guess I am a sucker for color in my movies.
Performances? DK. BP really only had Michael B. Jordon and Chadwick. DK had it top to bottom.
Sound mixing / editing? DK.
Script? I am on the fence but lean BP.
VFX? BP.
Cinematography? For being a dark and drab movie, DK had wonderful composition. The hospital scenes being the best after the finale of Joker/Bats talking face-to-face. Interrogation scene was not great for shot elements but the basic sets of it lent to Ledger's performance, which is another notch to Nolan (knowing when to back off). The slow camera tilts as Joker gets more nuts at various points of the film. The angles. Those little things set the movie off. BP, the main standout shot for me was entering Wakanda. FWIW, I thought Begins was better shot and directed than DK.
Direction? Editing? etc. BP largely because that coda killed it for me. The pace felt like a stab was happening in the building scene to me. The chaos of the Joker is lost and the agency goes to Two-Face. Two-Face was being setup for a whole film and then he is gone in end. And then the cheeseball running away "hero we deserve" stuff. UGH! Waste of time, IMHO. Not sure if that comes down to script, editing it to be longer (I remember reading a thing about the ending be cut a lot), or direction. The ending just didn't land for me giving the whole setup of the film. All that chaos and then Joker sets up his "ace in the hole" only to have it blow up in his face. I mean he kind of wins with the death of Two-Face but does Batman TRULY lose anything in the scenario? Eventual, he will rehab his image. But if Joker turns Two-Face and he's out ruing Gotham at Batman's expense? That is a win. Followed by DRAMATIC MUSIC STAB just kind of ruined an otherwise perfect movie for me. T'Challa holding Erik and Erik getting the verbal win landed better for me. The playing ball across from the church MLK was buried at didn't come across cheesy to me. For DK being a "grounded" movie and BP being not "grounded" ... BP had the more realistic ending.

But Dark Knight was more of a neo-noir, gritty, crime thriller while Black Panther was Afro futurism, 1960s-esque spy-film meets sci-fi. Kind of hard to compare because there are certain artistic elements that will be sacrificed to get to your end game.

My opinion doesn't change the fact that BOTH films should've won. Dark Knight should've been nominated over Button IMHO. Green Book? Slumdog? Maybe if BlacKKKlasman or Milk won I wouldn't have cared as much.

Not sure why either need to be torn down at the expense of the other?

And since you asked, kids these days don't like Nolan either. WYGD? *shrugs*

[WebLurker]

TDK is a well crafted film with substance. It's a Nolan film. the substance of TDK that tackles the themes of inner city corruption, failed policing, street crime is far greater than anything in black panther because black panther did not focus much on what should have mattered. the film making of TDK is also top notch. There is factual metrics proof of this while black panther suffers from the same cooperate made problems of mcu movies. like how all their cgi is done in the same animated way and how every film needs a big 3rd act action scene or how their movies lack any compelling plotlines.

Black Panther did not have enough substance as a story, and I think in the long run as a person of color myself, it should be unacceptable that a film like X-Men 1 with mostly white fictional characters highlighted the issues of racism and prejudice more than black panther ever did. This is the craft of TDK, Black Panther standing the next to this movie is quite poor in quality since I remember black panther car chase scene and the effects were bad compared to this.


Black Panther, VFX, Cinematography and Sound Mixing is not as good as the film.

Okay, I'm curious, what do you think was lacking?

No that is not the reason. the reason is because oscars hate comic book films in general and MCU movies represent the worst reasons of why they hate comic films. since MCU films have the most fun, action comedy and light hearted friendly vibe , I mean you are a writer as you said, so you should already know this about the oscars, like another person said here. the Oscars love their deep dramas and MCU movies are not deep dramas, the only marvel films that attempted deep adult dramas were some xmen films and Raimi Spiderman 2

The Oscar's biases are well known, but wasn't it the first time that Marvel Studios tried to get a best picture nomination for one of their films?