Kurt Busiek's "The Marvels"

[Chris0013]

Wait, what??? Just to be clear, the Korean and Vietnam Wars still occurred in the Marvel Universe, correct? I mean Reed, Tony, Ben, Frank Castle and others weren't the only ones who are vets of those wars. There are some characters whose history intersect with those events...including at least one whom I doubt Busiek will give even a passing mention to in his "in depth" continuity. Or are they really completely expunging the actual history in favor of a more modern fictional conflict, just so that no one questions the age of their characters?

Yes...all the real world wars occurred in 616. It is just that with the sliding time scale people's ages shift along with it so people who served in Vietam would not be old enough to serve in Vietnam. For example Flash would be the same age as Peter....late 20s...someone in their late 20s would have been born in the 90s....decades after the Vietnam war ended. So they are retconning several characters military service from the real war to the fictional war.

For reference...

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sin-Cong

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Siancong_War

[JudicatorPrime]

Yes...all the real world wars occurred in 616. It is just that with the sliding time scale people's ages shift along with it so people who served in Vietam would not be old enough to serve in Vietnam. For example Flash would be the same age as Peter....late 20s...someone in their late 20s would have been born in the 90s....decades after the Vietnam war ended. So they are retconning several characters military service from the real war to the fictional war.

For reference...

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sin-Cong

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Siancong_War

Got it, thanks!

[Sutekh]

Yes...all the real world wars occurred in 616. It is just that with the sliding time scale people's ages shift along with it so people who served in Vietam would not be old enough to serve in Vietnam. For example Flash would be the same age as Peter....late 20s...someone in their late 20s would have been born in the 90s....decades after the Vietnam war ended. So they are retconning several characters military service from the real war to the fictional war.

For reference...

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sin-Cong

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Siancong_War

So like how MCU Tony built his armor in Afghanistan, instead of Viet Nam. Just sort of kick the can forward a bit.

[Kirby101]

Wait, what??? Just to be clear, the Korean and Vietnam Wars still occurred in the Marvel Universe, correct? I mean Reed, Tony, Ben, Frank Castle and others weren't the only ones who are vets of those wars. There are some characters whose history intersect with those events...including at least one whom I doubt Busiek will give even a passing mention to in his "in depth" continuity. Or are they really completely expunging the actual history in favor of a more modern fictional conflict, just so that no one questions the age of their characters?

Yes, they are. There is no easy way to have stories with Reed and Ben in WWII in continuity and also their age today. Tony and Franks origins are in VietNam, but they are not in their 70s. It is something that can never be aligned, so a willing suspension of disbelief is necessary.

[Kirby101]

I asked on the Busiek thread, but I'll repeat here.
Do we know who all the heroes are in Caps group. I Know the new guy Kev, one of the Torches, Cap, Black Cat, Iron Man and Storm. Who are the other 3?

[JudicatorPrime]

Yes, they are. There is no easy way to have stories with Reed and Ben in WWII in continuity and also their age today. Tony and Franks origins are in VietNam, but they are not in their 70s. It is something that can never be aligned, so a willing suspension of disbelief is necessary.

I applaud them for at least trying, but I still think suspension of disbelief would be required anyway. Ultimately at some point the Sin Cong conflict will date these characters, too. Other life events like the ageing of children to adulthood will date them. Or for that matter, the ageing of children relative to other children. The Kitty Pryde effect always seems to happen, where one character matures to adulthood, but their age group peers across the Marvel Universe somehow seem not to age very much at all.

[Chris0013]

I asked on the Busiek thread, but I'll repeat here.
Do we know who all the heroes are in Caps group. I Know the new guy Kev, one of the Torches, Cap, Black Cat, Iron Man and Storm. Who are the other 3?

Asian girl in white is Aero, green dude is Vision/Aarkus, winged girl is Warbird...she is new.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Lei_Ling_(Earth-616)

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Aarkus_(Earth-616)

[Kirby101]

Thanks Chris.

[Personamanx]

Just finished reading the first issue. I enjoyed it well enough despite not really know where things will be headed. It's an interesting medley of characters that doesn't seem to rely on being overly familiar with continuity, I dig that. Surprised by how much I liked the pages dedicated to KSHOOM, it's a fun idea.

[Sutekh]

Just finished reading the first issue. I enjoyed it well enough despite not really know where things will be headed. It's an interesting medley of characters that doesn't seem to rely on being overly familiar with continuity, I dig that. Surprised by how much I liked the pages dedicated to KSHOOM, it's a fun idea.

Yeah it kind of plays around in the realm of Damage Control, as in 'what would the real world make of all this stuff?' Presumably there's a story behind how this dude got access to an old Fantasti-Car (or, at least, 3/4ths of one, I notice one quadrant is missing), and permission to use it this way.

I love the look of Warbird. The Deathbird/Ms. Marvel mashup costume leaves me wondering what exactly her powerset would be (other than the obvious flight). The lightning bolts on the costume suggest that she throws zaps, but that seems kind of extra on a team with Storm... (Then again, so does Aero, and it'd be no more 'extra' than having the Hulk on a team with Thor, or Namor!)

[strathcona]

I finally got a copy of this and absolutely loved it. This is the kind of book I live for. I've never found Lady Lotus/Lotus Newmark to be all that interesting a character, but I am intrigued as to what is going on with her in this story. I don't recall the old PPSSM annuals that Ace was in way back when, but I was always fascinated by the cover for some reason. He's a character that is almost a complete unknown.

Insane theory time. Kev Schumer (KSHOOM... I love it) has a Star Blazer gun, previously seen in the hands of the original Zodiac Cartel. Specifically Aries (Grover Raymond). The Avengers later used the Star Blazer against the Star Stalker, who had previously slain Monsier Khruul (seen in the beginning of the issue). Another Star Stalker later fought the Power Pack and was defeated with the help of a mysterious Mr. Raymond who had fire powers. This Raymond was obviously supposed to be Toro, but that was never revealed and doesn't make sense with what we know of Toro's death and rebirth. But that's two characters loosely connected with the last name Raymond... and Toro's first name? Thomas... Uncle T? Oh... and what were the Star Stalkers? Dragon like creatures from space that didn't like heat... A dragon like creature "not from the nine realms" in Alaska? OK.... I have no idea what I'm getting at... it there's a lot of MU history being mined here.

[Chris0013]

I enjoyed it and hope we get more of Flash's time in Sincong...but wish we got another Avengers title instead of a book with a bunch of characters that are already in other books on a regular basis.

[Montressor]

I've always loved the fact that Marvel never did a reboot. Such a rich, deep history and now we have a gifted writer to explore it with. I expect this series to be great, epic stuff.

[Montressor]

I finally got a copy of this and absolutely loved it. This is the kind of book I live for. I've never found Lady Lotus/Lotus Newmark to be all that interesting a character, but I am intrigued as to what is going on with her in this story. I don't recall the old PPSSM annuals that Ace was in way back when, but I was always fascinated by the cover for some reason. He's a character that is almost a complete unknown.

Insane theory time. Kev Schumer (KSHOOM... I love it) has a Star Blazer gun, previously seen in the hands of the original Zodiac Cartel. Specifically Aries (Grover Raymond). The Avengers later used the Star Blazer against the Star Stalker, who had previously slain Monsier Khruul (seen in the beginning of the issue). Another Star Stalker later fought the Power Pack and was defeated with the help of a mysterious Mr. Raymond who had fire powers. This Raymond was obviously supposed to be Toro, but that was never revealed and doesn't make sense with what we know of Toro's death and rebirth. But that's two characters loosely connected with the last name Raymond... and Toro's first name? Thomas... Uncle T? Oh... and what were the Star Stalkers? Dragon like creatures from space that didn't like heat... A dragon like creature "not from the nine realms" in Alaska? OK.... I have no idea what I'm getting at... it there's a lot of MU history being mined here.

I've always wondered about Mr. Raymond, also.

[Sutekh]

I finally got a copy of this and absolutely loved it. This is the kind of book I live for. I've never found Lady Lotus/Lotus Newmark to be all that interesting a character, but I am intrigued as to what is going on with her in this story. I don't recall the old PPSSM annuals that Ace was in way back when, but I was always fascinated by the cover for some reason. He's a character that is almost a complete unknown.

Insane theory time. Kev Schumer (KSHOOM... I love it) has a Star Blazer gun, previously seen in the hands of the original Zodiac Cartel. Specifically Aries (Grover Raymond). The Avengers later used the Star Blazer against the Star Stalker, who had previously slain Monsier Khruul (seen in the beginning of the issue). Another Star Stalker later fought the Power Pack and was defeated with the help of a mysterious Mr. Raymond who had fire powers. This Raymond was obviously supposed to be Toro, but that was never revealed and doesn't make sense with what we know of Toro's death and rebirth. But that's two characters loosely connected with the last name Raymond... and Toro's first name? Thomas... Uncle T? Oh... and what were the Star Stalkers? Dragon like creatures from space that didn't like heat... A dragon like creature "not from the nine realms" in Alaska? OK.... I have no idea what I'm getting at... it there's a lot of MU history being mined here.

Oh wow, K. Schumer/KSHOOM, I didn't catch that. Neat. And I totally didn't recognize the Star Blazer gun...

And wow, Ace, there's a character I *never* thought to see again.