Who is a worst father, David Cain or Omni-Man?

[Len Ikari145]

In the Cell fight, he had explicitly and deliberately altered his mind set to think of Gohan as a martial artist rather than a son for almost an entire (subjective) year beforehand because otherwise he would have held back on his training and they would all would have died to Cell. The moment that he realized that Gohan was acting as his son rather than as a fellow martial artist, he instantly snapped back to dad mode. It's basically exactly what happened between Piccolo and Gohan during the Saiyajin Saga.

Hell, Gohan called him out on it during their training session when he told his father to stop treating him as his son and fight him as a fellow warrior. Combined with feeling Gohan's potential to surpass Cell, he became stuck in a mindset where he saw his son as the perfect opponent to defeat Cell and treated him like any other martial artist, temporarily forgetting that he was still an inexperienced kid compared to everyone else.

And as for why he gave a Senzu Bean to Cell, that has less to do with Goku's acumen as a parent and more to do with it being that it's Goku. This is the same guy who let Piccolo get a free shot at him because Kami intervened, despite the fact that the former was established as a major threat to the world and allowed Vegeta to escape so that he could redeem his loss against him, even admitting that it was selfish of him. He tends to apply fair play and warrior ethics to situations where such a sentiment is not practical, but that's how his sense of morality works. Plus, Goku was thinking solely about Gohan's power level and prowess, and how they would negate make any Zenkai gains from Cell's recovery (and he was ultimately proven right, but I digress). And Super (and OVAs like Son Goku and Friends Returns!, which take place with the same timeframe) clearly shows us that he spends time with his family as much as he can while continuing his training.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

In a conversation about how the parent's morality makes them a bad parent,

but that's how his sense of morality works.

Using this as a defense for Goku isn't wise. Especially considering it's that same morality that's just about killed his kids, or the planet, a time or few.

Another argument that isn't wise is "Goku forgot his son was his son". That's just... well, speaks for itself.

That said, objectively speaking, Goku is not winning any "dad of the year" awards. No real way around that. Putting you kid through serious anguish becuase "lol I forgot my son was my son" is really not good, no matter the attempted justification.

Better question is: is he a terrible parent?

Which is also a "no".

He's a parent that makes mistakes as most are.

[Len Ikari145]

In a conversation about how the parent's morality makes them a bad parent,



Using this as a defense for Goku isn't wise. Especially considering it's that same morality that's just about killed his kids, or the planet, a time or few.

Another argument that isn't wise is "Goku forgot his son was his son". That's just... well, speaks for itself.

That said, objectively speaking, Goku is not winning any "dad of the year" awards. No real way around that. Putting you kid through serious anguish becuase "lol I forgot my son was my son" is really not good, no matter the attempted justification.

Better question is: is he a terrible parent?

Which is also a "no".

He's a parent that makes mistakes as most are.

Honestly, that's all I'm trying to get at. Goku's not perfect by any means as a parent or husband, but he tries and clearly loves his family. But equating or even comparing him to guys like Genma Saotome or David Cain, who are wholly belligerent and cruel to their children and feel no remorse over how their action have negatively affected them is....pretty fucking disingenuous.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

I say Rick Sanchez is a bad father and but at least admits it in the season 4 finale. He's also the most miserable person in his series due to how smart he is. He seems to know everything in his universe.

[big_adventure]

Honestly, that's all I'm trying to get at. Goku's not perfect by any means as a parent or husband, but he tries and clearly loves his family. But equating or even comparing him to guys like Genma Saotome or David Cain, who are wholly belligerent and cruel to their children and feel no remorse over how their action have negatively affected them is....pretty fucking disingenuous.

I agree with your last point entirely - look at my contribution a few posts up. Goku is a negligent and inattentive parent, and just generally not a smart or well-educated person. He absolutely loves his family in his own fashion, but that doesn't make him a good or responsable parent or husband by any means. Lots of crack addicts love their kids - this doesn't stop them from selling their kids' school books for drugs.

David Cain, on the other hand, is a horror show of a person and a legitimately evil parent.

[Beadle]

I love how we often just use the OP as more of a rough guideline than a firm expectation.

In this thread of who is worse between David Cain and Omni-Man, the bulk of the conversation has been about Goku.

[Len Ikari145]

I love how we often just use the OP as more of a rough guideline than a firm expectation.

In this thread of who is worse between David Cain and Omni-Man, the bulk of the conversation has been about Goku.

The thread derailing into a discussion about Goku's parenting began with Starter, so it's his fault. Anyway, Omni-man did seem to be a half-way decent father before Mark's powers manifested, whereas David physically and emotionally tortured Cass and treated her as subhuman throughout his "parentage", so I'm tentatively giving Nolan the nebulous "win" here.

Though if we want to continue off those rails: Victor Frankenstein is also a horrible parent...and husband...and friend...and brother...and son.

Okay, he was horrible for multiple reasons.

[Nik Hasta]

Lots of crack addicts love their kids - this doesn't stop them from selling their kids' school books for drugs.

I feel this comparison is a bit disingenuous.

Goku does love fighting and often neglects his family because of it, but he's also saved the universe on a couple of occasions and the planet more times than that through his fighting acumen.

Not many crack heads have that kind of justification for the addiction.

[Iron_Twister]

Reminds me how Vinsmoke Judge from One Piece...Is straight up garbage as a father considered what he did to his kids, even the ones he loves.

Cause wow.

[Nik Hasta]

Reminds me how Vinsmoke Judge from One Piece...Is straight up garbage as a father considered what he did to his kids, even the ones he loves.

Cause wow.

Let's see... used his children as experiments to make superhuman psychopaths with no emotion, indoctrinated them into a life of being child soldiers, the one child who had conventional emotions and no latent superhuman abilities as a child, he routinely beat the **** out of and crushed all attempts at said child expressing himself, locked him in a tower with a mask on his face so he wouldn't have to look at "the face of his failure," and then disowned him.

And then captured him, forced him into a political marriage and forced him in turn to disown his found family/friends.

Yeah, Judge is a piece of **** and a really bad dad.

[big_adventure]

I feel this comparison is a bit disingenuous.

Goku does love fighting and often neglects his family because of it, but he's also saved the universe on a couple of occasions and the planet more times than that through his fighting acumen.

Not many crack heads have that kind of justification for the addiction.

Goku has also been personally responsable for needing those saves on more than one occasion. Not many crack heads have "endangered a planet, a galaxy, a universe or multiple universes" on the ol' CV either. Goku does.

In any case, I was specifically addressing the point that Goku has that same level of qualification specifically in parenting. He's also absolutely heroic - literally sacrificing his life to save hordes of others multiple times. It's just that being heroic doesn't make him a good father. That was the sole point - there was nothing about that statement that implied that Goku has the same value to society as a random crack addict father.

[wjowski]

Cain's got this over Nolan though even he cared for Cass in his own twisted way...which is more than I can say about some of the other folks mentioned here (no Ozai?).

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I feel this comparison is a bit disingenuous.

Goku does love fighting and often neglects his family because of it, but he's also saved the universe on a couple of occasions and the planet more times than that through his fighting acumen.

Not many crack heads have that kind of justification for the addiction.

Yea but an addiction is an addiction, and Goku's particular one has also threatened the Universe.

Something you can't levy against a crack addict.

Bottom line is, crack is whack.

Snowflame however, is a gift.

[Len Ikari145]

Damn, all this talk about terrible parents reminded me of this bitch:



This is what happens to a child when a Yandere is their parent.

[Postmania]

I love how we often just use the OP as more of a rough guideline than a firm expectation.

In this thread of who is worse between David Cain and Omni-Man, the bulk of the conversation has been about Goku.

Also, next week is Mother's day so if this thread is still around it might swing over to mothers