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  1. #16
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    BTW, Miracle Molly is a decent character with decently interesting things to say, but I hate how Tynion and apparently Batman editorial believe Bruce is ignorant of how the world really works. Bruce has never respected the rich crowd, and he only hobnobs with them occasionally to keep up his playboy billionaire appearances; it's basically how he's been written for forever now. For someone with Tynion's politics, it's probably his wet dream to have a young, attractive purple-haired girl lecture Batman (old, rich, white guy) about the system, as if Batman isn't fully aware of how corrupt the rich can be and how unfair it is for people who don't have much.

    Choose another character to do this with. Not Batman. It doesn't make sense.
    My reading of Tynion is if he can make Bruce look foolish over something, he will .

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    Does Tynion have a different contract with DC than other creators with regards to new IP? I mean, the dude is just creating soooooo many new characters, and with Batman constantly getting rebooted in film, I'm sure he's hoping some of these creations make it into the new films. Maybe Pattinson Batman will battle the Unsanity Collective and Miracle Molly in his third film!
    I'm guessing he had to work something into his contract regarding royalties, though I doubt any of us know for sure. But I'm pretty it was in one of his newsletters where he said part of his reason for introducing new characters, realistically, was to help secure his future financially for he and his family. So I assume he's gotta get paid something if they appear in other media.

    With the expansion into HBO Max and the films picking up speed, you never know where they could show up. Punchline could easily be slotted into the Harley Quinn animated series. Ghostmaker has been rumored for a CW show, and if not, could easily be used as a supporting character in future seasons of Batwoman. Clownhunter could be used in Young Justice or Titans down the line. Maybe a future Batman movie uses them, maybe the upcoming GCPD TV show could find room for them.

    He probably has seen the success Snyder had with the Court of Owls, getting appearances in both Gotham and a video game. Harper Row got appearances in Young Justice.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Hi-Fi's Avatar
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    Miracle Molly is great. My favorite of this batch of new characters, so far.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Based on where the story is going, it seems like this moment with scarecrow having batman locked up won't be until after the end of the first arc. I like he's being built up like this, though it does feel weird he's being teased so heavily if Peacemaker is the actual villain of this arc.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    BTW, Miracle Molly is a decent character with decently interesting things to say, but I hate how Tynion and apparently Batman editorial believe Bruce is ignorant of how the world really works. Bruce has never respected the rich crowd, and he only hobnobs with them occasionally to keep up his playboy billionaire appearances; it's basically how he's been written for forever now. For someone with Tynion's politics, it's probably his wet dream to have a young, attractive purple-haired girl lecture Batman (old, rich, white guy) about the system, as if Batman isn't fully aware of how corrupt the rich can be and how unfair it is for people who don't have much.

    Choose another character to do this with. Not Batman. It doesn't make sense.
    Nah, I think it still makes sense. Bruce being aware and conscious of his money/class privilege wouldn't and doesn't change the reality that he's still very much a part it, historically taking advantage of his richness and high class social status with a practical nonchalance that's right in line with others with money/class privilege, corrupt or not. Likewise, it wouldn't alone change the minds of those who would be compelled to speak out against Bruce regarding it, whether they are aware that Bruce is aware of his money/class privilege or not. And finally, Bruce being cognizant of his money/class privilege doesn't make Bruce some kind of a free exception where he would be above having to listen to criticisms regarding his money/class privilege.
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  6. #21
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    An aside, but I notice a lot of people here apparently don't know how to spell Ghost-Maker's name.
    Last edited by J. D. Guy; 05-08-2021 at 02:20 AM.
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  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Tynion recently stripped Bruce of all his wealth and made him less problematic by way of being educated about the wealth disparity and the capitalist meat grinder ideology that he was apparently ignorant of when he went all over the world for 10+ years training to become Batman
    This circular logic is fine but I would definitely like it if people stopped pretending Bruce could change and make all those problems go away by being Batman differently
    Literally nothing would change

    I actually like all the new characters he's created Miracle Molly seems like the best out of the bunch. I do have to call it bs for her being able to identify Batman by the sound of his voice though. Bruce is usually way better at getting into character playing Matches Malone

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    Nah, I think it still makes sense. Bruce being aware and conscious of his money/class privilege wouldn't and doesn't change the reality that he's still very much a part it, historically taking advantage of his richness and high class social status with a practical nonchalance that's right in line with others with money/class privilege, corrupt or not. Likewise, it wouldn't alone change the minds of those who would be compelled to speak out against Bruce regarding it, whether they are aware that Bruce is aware of his money/class privilege or not. And finally, Bruce being cognizant of his money/class privilege doesn't make Bruce some kind of a free exception where he would be above having to listen to criticisms regarding his money/class privilege.
    lol. All i gotta say is we would never get along in real life.

    But on an internet forum, we can politely disagree, which we can do here. Agree to disagree. By not having Bruce respond to Molly intelligently, including pointing out both his agreements and disagreements with her (even beyond the Unsanity Collective's methods), Tynion botched the scene and wrote Bruce horribly.

  9. #24
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    lol. All i gotta say is we would never get along in real life.

    But on an internet forum, we can politely disagree, which we can do here. Agree to disagree. By not having Bruce respond to Molly intelligently, including pointing out both his agreements and disagreements with her (even beyond the Unsanity Collective's methods), Tynion botched the scene and wrote Bruce horribly.
    Bruce really does a terrible job defending himself when Tynion writes him. Although I guess that's also true for most Bat-writers to be honest where Batman usually tends to come off in the wrong (unless inexplicably shown to be right).

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    lol. All i gotta say is we would never get along in real life.

    But on an internet forum, we can politely disagree, which we can do here. Agree to disagree. By not having Bruce respond to Molly intelligently, including pointing out both his agreements and disagreements with her (even beyond the Unsanity Collective's methods), Tynion botched the scene and wrote Bruce horribly.

    Word...as soon as I hear the word privilege (I'm native btw) I cringe.

    I liked this issue . I liked future state despite going into it making fun of it. Seeing those seeds , or these seeds bleed into that is cool. Molly was cool. I want to see more of this. Reading second son, detective, joker and this it's cool to see it all meshing. Co!or me surprised but I'm genuinely interested in finding out how future state happaned.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Bruce really does a terrible job defending himself when Tynion writes him. Although I guess that's also true for most Bat-writers to be honest where Batman usually tends to come off in the wrong (unless inexplicably shown to be right).
    I guess thats a thing especially when you add new OCs to the mix.
    You need the characters to have something, some value that makes them stand out...if they tell Bruce something he already knows and understands, their purpose is non existing outside of plot device etc.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Bruce really does a terrible job defending himself when Tynion writes him.
    Wouldn't it be a bit weird if Tynion wrote Batman doing a good job at defending himself from arguments that Tynion came up with?

  13. #28
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Wouldn't it be a bit weird if Tynion wrote Batman doing a good job at defending himself from arguments that Tynion came up with?
    I mean, I feel like if you're writing your main protagonist to be wrong or ignorant a lot or unable to argue their own conviction and circumstances, it kind of comes off like you're not being as fair to them in favor of other characters.

    I'm not saying Bruce can't be wrong or ignorant, far from it, but it just seems like he never has any proper rebuttals.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Wouldn't it be a bit weird if Tynion wrote Batman doing a good job at defending himself from arguments that Tynion came up with?
    Not at all. A good writer, and more generally -- anyone with intellectual honesty -- should seek to be able to argue both sides of a debate well. Everyone can have opinions about anything, but they should learn and be able to articulate the opposing counterpoints. Especially with regards to any debate that's been around for centuries. With Tynion, you get the sense that he (and many of his colleagues) live in echo chambers.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    Not at all. A good writer, and more generally -- anyone with intellectual honesty -- should seek to be able to argue both sides of a debate well. Everyone can have opinions about anything, but they should learn and be able to articulate the opposing counterpoints. Especially with regards to any debate that's been around for centuries. With Tynion, you get the sense that he (and many of his colleagues) live in echo chambers.
    I disagree simply because of department of truth. That book is all the crazy right wing conspiracy stuff so tynion is clearly aware of the counterpoint. I think d.c. Has it's liberal bias and stuff and with one of the big three you have to just go along with that. It's probably easier and safer to just echo those sentiments or pretend you're 100 percent a part of that. If department of truth didn't exist I'd agree. Unless of course he's being intellectually dishonest by taking the piss with DOT, which to me doesn't feel the case.

    I think it's probably a bit of column b and column a...

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