Is wanda the pretender or no? Poll

[GenericUsername]

I hate to burst your bubble but the X-men have always done their own thing in Marvel U. Sure there have been cross overs where they interact with other super heroes but they have always been in their own space in the Marvel U. What you are talking about is the period when Marvel was replacing them with the Inhumans basically making them the mutants. That was already fixed when they massacred all the NUInhumans.


Yeah no Wanda does not add diversity to the Avengers team even when she was a mutant. She was raised by Romani and now has a long history of Witches that can be touched on but that alone doesn't make her diverse.

If there was a whole team of just white people but different ethnic groups within Europe that wouldn't be considered diverse sorry but that is just a fact.

Absolutely does. She wasn't just raised but is Romani herself.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Kurt Busiek gave Marvel Girl's civilian identity Jean Grey grace AND developed Wanda greatly...

PRAISE Kurt Busiek!!!

Indeed on the Wanda front, a major Example of the Lie told by Bendis by taking Out~of~Canon logic to rule by it, he only took Darker than Scarlet Wanda as his example for AD and HoM.

In-Canon Truth are events after Darker at Han Scarlet was soon after By Roy Thomas in West Coast Avengers Annual #7, Part 2 Wanda Remembers and honors the memory of her kids, fully embracing it;









With Focus on Wanda’s True-Canon again with What Roy Thomas started got Re-Enforced to the Canon History of Wanda’s development as just one example, Kurt Busiek in Avengers Vol. 3, Issue #2 and then some in just this one panel alone;

Yup, WANDA MAXIMOFF born a MUTANT, trained as a SORCERESS...

[gurkle]

I voted "no" but only because I think she's not the Pretender, she's the Judas. They can't call her that because she's officially not a mutant (for now), but Exodus is portraying her as the mutant who betrayed her own people. Probably they would have explicitly portrayed her this way if they'd gotten clearance to make her a mutant again.

"Pretender" is a pretty clever choice by Hickman, since it not only suggests that she was pretending to be a mutant (she wasn't, but the mutant kids don't necessarily know that), but it also sounds like "pretender to the throne," and of course Exodus would consider her a pretender to the title of Lord Magnus's heir.

But I do think if they just classified her as a mutant (there's no reason why having an artificially-created X-gene would disqualify her from being a mutant), it would be a stronger story, just like it would be a stronger story if she were on the Avengers where she belongs and the Avengers had to deal with having a sworn enemy of Krakoa on their roster.

TL, DR, I want Wanda to be a mutant and an active Avenger and I've made up reasons why these things would make the X-books better.

[BroHomo]

There's a difference between being fine with what you are and taking pride from something you are not responsible of. I have the impression that the “I'm proud of being mutant.” is just a reaction to “You should be ashamed of being mutant.”.

A lot of people's pride does. So you seem to be saying if someone iswrong if they take pride in being gay ? Or American? Or part black? Or part Irish? Or part Creek Indian?

But, in Krakoa, it became “I'm proud of being mutant and it's better than being human.” and no one challenges that because everyone is mutant and there isn't any real conversation. It has become a “norm”.

Amnnnd? How does this hurt humans?

That wasn't really a lie though.

At the time, mutants had no culture, no homeland, no real history, society, or identity outside of "hated and feared" and "I have powers." Sure there current culture and homeland is rather questionable, but at least there's something there. Back then , though, they had nothing and being a mutant was just an invitation to be attacked by mobs, spit on, or hunted by giant robots. Why would anyone wish that kind of fate on others?

It's hard to have a culture when you and your people keep having to bounce back from Genocidal maniacs

Certainly. The author clearly speaks through Wanda.

But it makes sense that Wanda was the one saying it: during decades, she was the mutant who was a member of a non-mutant only team, didn’t feel the need to be a member of the X-men after being a member of the Brotherhood. Being a mutant wasn’t important for her. So it’s laughable to call her the Pretender.

Soooo who DaFuq is she to comment on mutant culture...you've said it yourself she had no interest in her alleged Mutant status How does that make sense?

Cassandra Nova is not, never was and never pretended to be a mutant, she is a Mummudrai. The Genosha Massacre is listed alongside M Day and other anti-mutant events in House of X.

Riiight? She hates Mutants but every thread about the Pretender this gets brought up Gasligtnin at its finest

You're missing the point. It's not about whether what she blurted out was right or wrong because irregardless she had no right to talk down on mutants when she wiped out 97% of the population no matter how sorry she claimed she was.

It was completely tone deaf and made her look like an ass. Granted tone deafness isn't new on Remenders part...

THANK YOU!!

Cassandra is a mutant in addition to being a “Mummudrai,” basically, a Shi’ar, astral-plane demon. We know Cassandra is a mutant because she created herself from Charles’ very own cells, made up of his mutant DNA. Thus, Cassandra HAS to be a mutant in addition to being basically a Shi’ar demon. Marvel editorial has never thought this through very well. Of course, that could be said about the entire Morrison run.
The implications of this are that Charles unborn, twin, mutant sister who is also part of the culture of some of Charles’ oldest allies, the Shi’ar, committed the Genoshan genocide. And now mutants are trusting Charles to found the new Krakoan nation? I mean, the whole thing was not Charles’ fault, but he’s probably not the guy you want running your new country, you know? Interestingly, even the weapons, Sentinels, that Cassandra used were almost certainly made by Larry Trask, who was a mutant, too. It’s really kinda messed up.

Bruh this page kills almost every point you tried to make

1. Notice Sentinels not attacking her cause shes not a Mutant...
2. Larry Trask didn't make the Sentinels. If she had used Sentinels developed by a Mutant in the attack Nova woulda wasted no time goading and teasing the X-Men that a Mutant was responsible for the massacre.

The horrific Genoshan mutant genocide was committed by... mutants!

As evidence where? Neither Bolivar Trask or Nova are mutants...her Wikipedia page doesn't have her as a Mutant nor does the official Marvel entry And it was a massacre not Genocide...the Sentinels were ordered to destroy Genosha not kill every Mutant. What you the Pretender did was Genocide!

Don’t forget mutants have created and employed Sentinels, too, pretty frequently, really. That includes Shaw, who is one of the current rulers of Krakoa. Again, there’s all sorts of things Marvel editorial has not thought through very well.

Um Shaw didn't know the full intent or extent of the Sentinels when he found out he killed the dude he partnered with and took over the inner circle

Absolutely does. She wasn't just raised but is Romani herself.

buuut it's almost Never referenced and she doesn't look it. Sooo how is that representation?

[GenericUsername]

buuut it's almost Never referenced and she doesn't look it. Sooo how is that representation?

How comics portray Romani is not restricted to Wanda. It's not good representation most of the time, but it still is representation. And it's up to Romani individually to decide what to feel about it. Wanda by and large by the community is still accepted as Romani. Because most know comics aren't gonna even try to get skin color right. They white wash other races as well. But she was born Romani, raised Romani. So she is Romani.

Comics could improve on that but never attempt to do it. For any of the four Romani characters that exist.

About how much it's mentioned. It's about as much as they mention anyone else's background in comics.

[Brian B]

Bruh this page kills almost every point you tried to make

1. Notice Sentinels not attacking her cause shes not a Mutant...
2. Larry Trask didn't make the Sentinels. If she had used Sentinels developed by a Mutant in the attack Nova woulda wasted no time goading and teasing the X-Men that a Mutant was responsible for the massacre.

“Bruh,” I’m not going to explain why the Sentinels aren’t attacking Cassandra, because I can’t. What I can say is that in the X titles, being a mutant is determined by DNA. The X books have stated this for decades and decades. Cassandra created herself from Charles’ cells, which are made up of mutant DNA. She is literally made from Charles, physically — she is made up of Charles’ mutant DNA. She HAS to be a mutant, too. No, in Marvel continuity, Marvel has NEVER acknowledged this. But based on the logic Marvel has laid out in the X books, it has to be true.

What really happened here is Grant Morrison was allowed by Marvel editors to sh!t all over the X franchise, creating crazy contradictions like this.

And yes, Larry Trask did create Sentinels. That’s not Larry Trask in those panels there. That’s Larry’s cousin. Larry Trask created the Mach II Sentinels, circa X-Men #57 through #59, in some of their greatest adventures EVER, by the astounding and perhaps greatest X-Men creators since Lee and Kirby — those being Roy Thomas, Neal Adams and Tom Palmer. Now, THOSE were X-Men!

The exact origin of Morrison’s Wild Sentinels was never fully explained, except that it was Trask Sentinels. The reason it has to be Larry Trask’s Sentinels is Bolivar Trask’s Master Mold was destroyed in X-Men #17.

Larry Trask’s Master Mold, which must have produced the Mach II Sentinels in X-Men #57 through 59, was never depicted, as animate or destroyed. By process of the elimination of Bolivar’s Master Mold in X-Men #17, the Master Mold Morrison used to produce the Wild Sentinels had to be Larry Trask’s Master Mold.

Jeez, I have read way too many X comics in my lifetime, LoL! That I know the continuity this well cannot be healthy.

BTW, kudos to Hickman for the concept of a Mother Mold! That is one of the cool things about Hickman’s run, and I don’t love Hickman’s run entirely. But Mother Molds are a great idea.

And it was a massacre not Genocide ...the Sentinels were ordered to destroy Genosha not kill every Mutant. What you the Pretender did was Genocide!

It was a massacre for sure. But destroying an entire country of a particular “race” of people is not genocide? Obviously, you were not part of drafting the UN Convention on Genocide, and a good thing, too! LOL!

On the other hand, wishing people’s super powers away is not defined as genocide. So, Wanda’s in the clear! LOL!

Um Shaw didn't know the full intent or extent of the Sentinels when he found out he killed the dude he partnered with and took over the inner circle
buuut it's almost Never referenced and she doesn't look it. Sooo how is that representation?

You’re going to make excuses for a fictional supervillain? The Black King of the Hellfire Club? He didn’t know what he was doing? Oh-kay... LOL!

[king of hybrids]

Regarding Wanda’s ethnicity, I’m pretty sure her new retconned family is Romani seeing as Django is her maternal uncle now

[GenericUsername]

Regarding Wanda’s ethnicity, I’m pretty sure her new retconned family is Romani seeing as Django is her maternal uncle now

Wanda was part Romani before that because Magda was Sinti.

[jwatson]

I admit I rather agree with Wanda's beliefs: being born one way shouldn't be a shame, but shouldn't be a pride neither. It's not a achievement.

It doesn't mean I approve what Wanda did but I dislike absolutely Krakoa's racial nationalism.

This reminds me of havok's "call me Alex" moment. Now that was cringeworthy. Was that the same writer?

[OopsIdiditagain]

There's a difference between being fine with what you are and taking pride from something you are not responsible of. I have the impression that the “I'm proud of being mutant.” is just a reaction to “You should be ashamed of being mutant.”.

But, in Krakoa, it became “I'm proud of being mutant and it's better than being human.” and no one challenges that because everyone is mutant and there isn't any real conversation. It has become a “norm”.

I find unfortunate that Wanda is no longer a mutant because she was one of the ones of the most interesting “thinkers” on mutanthood and, now, she has no reason anymore to debate on this subject.

Krakoan exceptionalism.

[Glio]

Cassandra is not a mutant and never has been. Saying that Cassandra is a mutant is like saying that the Phoenix Force is a mutant or Venom's symbiote is a human.

Cassandra can change her body at will because she is an astral being, like a demon or a spirit.

[Zelena]

Was that the same writer?

It seems so…

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes it was Rick Remender, Wanda and Havok were both part of the Uncanny Avengers who had the main mission to unite mutants and humans together and while it wasn´t exactly his intention, I think those dialogues are interesting because they show why they didn´t got anything done for their mission, you can´t serve as a unity force if you don´t understand where the people you are trying to help is coming from or their povs, in this case mutants.

I may be wrong but I got the idea Remender wanted to show with the X-men and Avengers characters the reason why mutants and humans can´t quite get along and had the plan to address it and get into a balance and compromise between the two of them, the problem was that when it came the time to real unity the story felt forced, twisted into supporting just half of that group and then he had to end it quikly because he didn´t want to write the title anymore.

[Glio]

Remender wrote Rogue and Wanda yelling at Holocaust survivor Magneto that if you kill a Nazi who is starting a mutant and inhuman genocide (Red Skull), you are as bad as a Nazi.

Not even know where to start.

[Rang10]

I admit I rather agree with Wanda's beliefs: being born one way shouldn't be a shame, but shouldn't be a pride neither. It's not a achievement.

It doesn't mean I approve what Wanda did but I dislike absolutely Krakoa's racial nationalism.

Wanda was right. Mutants only have powers or some strange body mutations