View Poll Results: Should Scarlet Witch be called The Pretender?

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  • Yes! She’s the Pretender!

    62 38.04%
  • No! Stop calling her that!

    101 61.96%
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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    She's the Pretender, she's pure evil, she's psychotic and she needs to be in the pit.

    Why else would she turn the unfortunate victims of a genocidal massacre into Zombies?
    Because X-Men franchise need a none X-character as the plot device and fuel for drama?

  2. #182
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I suppose that what Cassandra Nova did was just killing the mutants, something that can happen to both humans and mutants. (I agree that the number is impressing…)

    What Wanda did was an attack on the core identity of the mutants, the thing that the mutants were proud of: their powers. Note that the ones with a unusual appearance kept their unusual appearance. There was no upside except for those whose powers were an hidrance.
    So, it became a founding element of the mutant nation.

    I guess that pride is more important than life. In Marvel universe, anyway… Why some X-fans get along with that idea, I don’t know.
    The problem is that mutants couldnt be born, but that is not a major problem for fans

  3. #183
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    Since she did not know she wasn't a Mutant, no she was not pretending to be. Also any opinion on Pietro or does he get a pass? Or is he just forgotten?

  4. #184
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    Since she did not know she wasn't a Mutant, no she was not pretending to be. Also any opinion on Pietro or does he get a pass? Or is he just forgotten?
    He gets a pass by most while others find his irrelevance to be punishment enough. Frankly Pietro got destroyed the most by losing the Magneto Connection & the "X-Factor"!!! If u will!! AYYYYYY Puns!!!!!!!!!!!!..................... I'll go away...........

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I suppose that what Cassandra Nova did was just killing the mutants, something that can happen to both humans and mutants. (I agree that the number is impressing…)

    What Wanda did was an attack on the core identity of the mutants, the thing that the mutants were proud of: their powers. Note that the ones with a unusual appearance kept their unusual appearance. There was no upside except for those whose powers were an hidrance.
    So, it became a founding element of the mutant nation.

    I guess that pride is more important than life. In Marvel universe, anyway… Why some X-fans get along with that idea, I don’t know.
    So openly murdering over 16 million mutants cause they are mutants and that was a clearheaded choose and desire by her to commit it does not account form nearly much anymore, it’s just~JUST?!

    That seems odd.
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
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  6. #186
    Mighty Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    i never said this was directed at you.. it is for those who can't give Wanda a pass but are able to give Jean one it very much is relevant. its to make a point that even when a hero has committed acts that don't appear to be redeemable there is always the ability to make amends. that is the parallel. if its good for Jean why not Wanda? as Jean herself said she was very much so responsible for the acts of the Phoenix even if it wasn't technically her.
    The situations aren't comparable, even as Wanda apologists try to obscure the facts and confuse the issue.

    Jean/Phoenix never tried to wipe out a group of people because of who they are. She didn't say, "Damn, I hate D'Bari, so I'm going to eat their sun". Jean didn't actively seek out the power of the Phoenix. She never sought out a villain to give her that power. Wanda was only possessed because she wanted to be possessed.

    It isn't just the scale. I love MCU Wanda and have no problem forgiving the events of Westview. Apples/oranges. If comics Wanda had said, "No more fighting" or "No more powers" or something else, it would be redeemable. She didn't. She said, "No more mutants". It's not easy for everyone to still like a character who is 100% culpable (and she is) for murdering, maiming and erasing people because of their genetic makeup. For me, it wrote something irredeemable into her character. The Red Skull could never be redeemed for me. The Purifiers could never be redeemed. Orchis can never be redeemed. Wanda (comics) can never be redeemed.

  7. #187
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    The situations aren't comparable, even as Wanda apologists try to obscure the facts and confuse the issue.

    Jean/Phoenix never tried to wipe out a group of people because of who they are. She didn't say, "Damn, I hate D'Bari, so I'm going to eat their sun". Jean didn't actively seek out the power of the Phoenix. She never sought out a villain to give her that power. Wanda was only possessed because she wanted to be possessed.

    It isn't just the scale. I love MCU Wanda and have no problem forgiving the events of Westview. Apples/oranges. If comics Wanda had said, "No more fighting" or "No more powers" or something else, it would be redeemable. She didn't. She said, "No more mutants". It's not easy for everyone to still like a character who is 100% culpable (and she is) for murdering, maiming and erasing people because of their genetic makeup. For me, it wrote something irredeemable into her character. The Red Skull could never be redeemed for me. The Purifiers could never be redeemed. Orchis can never be redeemed. Wanda (comics) can never be redeemed.
    Jean, by way of Phoenix, destroyed an entire planet because of her dark inner desires. Regardless of how Jean and Phoenix came to be is irrelevant as it was her mind, her thoughts, and her desires that fueled the Phoenix in its actions when it destroyed the D'Bari planet. Wanda's action against mutantkind is not excusable but one should consider she had just experienced a tragedy. Beyond that she has tried to atone for the past. Also she didn't wipe out an entire planet of beings she just removed their powers. The same is not true for Jean . One could argue her actions were much much worse.
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  8. #188
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Jean, by way of Phoenix, destroyed an entire planet because of her dark inner desires. Regardless of how Jean and Phoenix came to be is irrelevant as it was her mind, her thoughts, and her desires that fueled the Phoenix in its actions when it destroyed the D'Bari planet. Wanda's action against mutantkind is not excusable but one should consider she had just experienced a tragedy. Beyond that she has tried to atone for the past. Also she didn't wipe out an entire planet of beings she just removed their powers. The same is not true for Jean . One could argue her actions were much much worse.
    Jean was possessed and not to blame on what happened.

    She was raped many times by Mastermind and went Dark Phoenix, she also had no intention to kill a planet, She went for the sun and by consequence it destroyed a planet.


    The only ones to blame for it are the responsible by the rape: Mastermind and Emma. But it is easier to go for the victim

    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    So openly murdering over 16 million mutants cause they are mutants and that was a clearheaded choose and desire by her to commit it does not account form nearly much anymore, it’s just~JUST?!

    That seems odd.
    If Cassandra hd the x gene she would be on Krakoa for sure
    Last edited by Rang10; 05-05-2021 at 10:10 AM.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    The Shiar aren’t generally portrayed as protagonists we should root for, though.
    Ok. No horse in the race one way or the other. It just to me doesn't make sense to compare Wanda to Jean. Jean paid for her crimes despite it being a duplicate. Young Jean paid for those crimes. Rachel paid for those crimes there was a genocide on grey's. So it just for me doesn't make sense to compare the two when Jean not only paid but was taken off the map for years. It seems like a false equivalency. Whether wanda pays or not the two aren't the same.
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  10. #190
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Jean was possessed and not to blame on what happened.

    She was raped many times by Mastermind and went Dark Phoenix, she also had no intention to kill a planet, She went for the sun and by consequence it destroyed a planet.


    The only ones to blame for it are the responsible by the rape: Mastermind and Emma. But it is easier to go for the victim



    If Cassandra hd the x gene she would be on Krakoa for sure
    I think this is all fair points. I just also think the Wanda deserves the same consideration. She wasn't evil, she lost her children and from that trauma she lashed out. Was it right no but there was a reason why it happened.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #191
    Incredible Member ermac's Avatar
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    X-Fans complained a lot when Marvel was biased towards the mutants. Specially with the humiliation and imposed vilanization of Scott Summers.

    I think X-Fans should forgive Wanda and not act on the same mistake we hate when it's done to our characters.

  12. #192
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Emma frost and Mastermind were responsible for the Phoenix Force turning into Dark Phoenix.

    DP needed energy to live and needed to feast on the star. DP did not know there were inhabitable planets.

    This is not the same thing and should not be brought up here.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


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  13. #193
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    So openly murdering over 16 million mutants cause they are mutants and that was a clearheaded choose and desire by her to commit it does not account form nearly much anymore, it’s just~JUST?!

    That seems odd.
    Cassandra is not a mutant, she never was, she´s an alien entity that took the powers and appareance of Proffesor X, her origin was left pretty vague by Morrison but the thing is that she liked to kill mutants and she hates Xavier, for whatever reason. She was left depowered and with a forced feeling of remorse, she was made feel the minds and feelings of everybody on Genosha before they died by a mental operation by Jean on X-men Red so she isn´t a menace anymore.

    I am tired of this argument and I agree with jwatson Jean´s case is different to Wanda at the end of things, because even before the retcon of her not being Phoenix, she regreeted her actions and let herself be killed while Wanda just had some mutants be angry at her, with Dr Doom taking the blame even if he wasn´t on the planet during those events and the Avengers supporting her.


    It doesn´t matter if Jean killed a "bunch of extras brocoli people" the people at marvel from that time knew you can´t have a heroic character do that and still be considered a hero without having any consequences. I don´t blame the Avengers, Doom or even Wanda for reacting like they did because this is a failing by marvel editorial and writers, the way the story has been handleed is definitely different and that makes comparing the two cases a false equivalency.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-05-2021 at 11:06 AM.
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I think this is all fair points. I just also think the Wanda deserves the same consideration. She wasn't evil, she lost her children and from that trauma she lashed out. Was it right no but there was a reason why it happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    X-Fans complained a lot when Marvel was biased towards the mutants. Specially with the humiliation and imposed vilanization of Scott Summers.

    I think X-Fans should forgive Wanda and not act on the same mistake we hate when it's done to our characters.
    Indeed both of you well said.

    The other major problem with Dissembles and HoM is that Marvel Editorial and Joe Quesada allowed Bendis to pretty much Open Faced LIE about Wanda and her development after the events of Darker then Scarlet. He ignored all her stories and develop that happen from that point and told Lies in her history, her living with and honoring while Fully Knowing the death of her kids, how strong she become threw that and her personal development threw the 90’s and into the Busiek Era of Avengers where she developed greatly into a a 180 degree difference then what they portrayed her as to make Dissembles and HoM work.

    Cause if some these points alone, with the blasphemy of dishonor to lying about Wanda’s character, personal and canon history is it a wonder why fans debate so hard for wonder and then wonder why we don’t spend as much time holding those that wrote it all more responsible for their Lies then we to anyone else?!
    "By Earth and Sky, By Craft and Hex -- By The Past and The Future – I Call HOPE Forth From The DARKNESS!
    I Speak The Words We Made Into MAGIC!
    Let THEIR Power Augment Our OWN! To Strike ONE BLOW From Our HEARTS and SOULS – From ALL THAT WE ARE!
    Let The CALL Go Forth --
    AVENGERS! ASSEMBLE!"


    Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff ~~ From Avengers #689!

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  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Emma frost and Mastermind were responsible for the Phoenix Force turning into Dark Phoenix.

    DP needed energy to live and needed to feast on the star. DP did not know there were inhabitable planets.

    This is not the same thing and should not be brought up here.
    Hear! Hear!
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