Is wanda the pretender or no? Poll

[Lucyinthesky]

She was used by editorial yes and yes Avengers Dissasembled was done to rewrite the Avengers in a more "modern version" with Spider-man and Wolverine as members but decimation itself was done because apparently they thought Morrison run left too many mutants to be a minority so they had to scrat them off but imo this doesn´t make sense because even then mutants were way more less in numbers than general humans and in the end decimation at first was thought to be an event that would not last much but then it took years and years and here we are and in the end I don´t think it really helped X-sales or storylines in general, many readers got tired of decimation and apocalyptic events. Imo this is also why this particular event is harder to get over with because it´s consequences were left open for a long time and when it was addressed they were don so in a biased way.

[CJStriker]

Lol now that I think of it Wanda was used by the editorial staff - at the cost of existing character history and development- to revamp the X universe which had become stagnant, as well as remake the Avengers. The kiddies who don't know the history or events directly preceding obviously have no idea but should be grateful as she was the Plot Tool writers used to reignite the X universe. Lol all this time spent posting - done for real posting here. It's actually pointless. She was used as an editorial tool in HOM and now I see also in Empyre to get rid of extra mutants for keeping keep a core group of the most popular mutants for the purpose of having more exciting and impactful stories. Lol what a waste of time this whole argument actually turns out to be in the end. Thread should be closed down in hindsight.

You hit the Literal Nail on the head with that!

It is why I don’t either do these debates as verbally as I used to, pretty much Marvel and Editorial did an Huge Lying Job on Wanda ignoring nearly a 2 decades of canon to make a Bendis Wanda doll plot device character to make dissembles and HoM happen.

Everyone I have ever talk to about this in Real Life hates this and calls it a lie as well, it is why I don’t take this as much as I used too.

I care about her majority canon and learning about it and not shortchanging it to just 1 or 2 stories, canon should be full honored to full understand and get any character.

[GenericUsername]

I literally have a WandaVision avatar so trust not shaming her fans some of y'all taking this to serious at this point not every comment is an attack.

It's a really nice avatar too.

[CJStriker]

It's a really nice avatar too.

Totally Agree, it is a really lovely avatar Journey, I love the detailed close-up of Vision, Pietro and the kids on the sides with Wanda in her full new costume and person in view!

[maximoffimpact]

She ain't got that kind of power no more so yo argument loses a lot of power. At the end of the day if you gonna hate Wanda for saying the words you should hate Pietro for setting shit in motion. *shrugs*

You are right about Pietro setting things in motion in the HOM reveal. As wrong as it was on his (Pietro) part, as Wanda's twin sibling, he was desperate to save the life of his sister when he heard some of the talk at the Avengers/X-Men discussion that some suggested Wanda be killed. (Decimation had not happened yet. The heroes at the conference were seriously worried what Wanda might do with her powers - not knowing she possessed the Life Force which amped up her powers and caused her periods of mental instability.) What drove the car over the cliff so to speak, was Magneto brutally sniffing out Pietro and Wanda witnessing her twin being brutally killed by the person she then had come to know as their father. She was already in a mentally delicate state due to the then unknown power source (Life Force) she had acquired, followed by the damage she had done under the influence of the Life Force (and somehow Doom, retconned later) to cause the deaths of 3 Avengers and a dismantling of the Avengers team. Yet, up until Magneto brutally killing off Pietro, Wanda was holding her own just content to play with her children and allow Magneto to become the ruler of society, following the guidelines that Pietro mapped out for her as a way to protect her by giving Magneto what he wanted as the ruler of House of M. If Magneto had not snuffed out Pietro, Wanda would not have been pushed over the edge emotionally in that moment to retaliate Pietro's then-brutal killing and snuff out Magneto and his dreams by uttering those 3 infamous words. As she said in her moment of unstable rage, even when you get what you (Magneto) want, you still harm those you proclaim to love (paraphrase). My point is that even though Pieteo deserved flak for what he set in motion, Magneto has never received any flak from anyone other than Wanda, for what he did to Pietro, which ignited Wanda to do what she did against Magneto, but unintentionally to the whole mutant community due to that enraged moment of instability .

[Shadowcat]

I still support Wanda being a mutant, and don’t give two shits about the mutant “genocide”, because people take this shit too seriously. My great grandmother was sent to an actual concentration camp by Nazis. The characters stripped of their powers have been resurrected/restored. Give it the fuck up.

[CJStriker]

I still support Wanda being a mutant, and don’t give two shits about the mutant “genocide”, because people take this shit too seriously. My great grandmother was sent to an actual concentration camp by Nazis. The characters stripped of their powers have been resurrected/restored. Give it the fuck up.

I am so sorry to hear your Great Grandmother went threw that horror, blessings to both her and your family for the strength of dealing threw such an ordeal.

[Shadowcat]

I am so sorry to hear your Great Grandmother went threw that horror, blessings to both her and your family for the strength of dealing threw such an ordeal.

Thank you. I unfortunately was never able to know her, because as soon as she was rounded up, my great grandfather, great aunt, and grandfather fled to America. It’s a story I heard a lot growing up until he died from cancer.

[U.N. Owen]

I'm going to point out the elephant in the room. "Pretender" implies Wanda had either conscious or subconscious desire to actively fake being a mutant for some sort of purpose. Does anyone actually have an issue where Wanda is explicitly said to have faked being a mutant for any purpose other than editorial being editorial? Yes, you can be a pretender and not have any intentions of being one, but if you're going to be a grown woman who faked being a mutant, you better have some motive behind it. No one pretends to be someone else for absolutely no reason at all.

[Alan2099]

You are right about Pietro setting things in motion in the HOM reveal. As wrong as it was on his (Pietro) part, as Wanda's twin sibling, he was desperate to save the life of his sister when he heard some of the talk at the Avengers/X-Men discussion that some suggested Wanda be killed. (Decimation had not happened yet. The heroes at the conference were seriously worried what Wanda might do with her powers - not knowing she possessed the Life Force which amped up her powers and caused her periods of mental instability.) What drove the car over the cliff so to speak, was Magneto brutally sniffing out Pietro and Wanda witnessing her twin being brutally killed by the person she then had come to know as their father. She was already in a mentally delicate state due to the then unknown power source (Life Force) she had acquired, followed by the damage she had done under the influence of the Life Force (and somehow Doom, retconned later) to cause the deaths of 3 Avengers and a dismantling of the Avengers team. Yet, up until Magneto brutally killing off Pietro, Wanda was holding her own just content to play with her children and allow Magneto to become the ruler of society, following the guidelines that Pietro mapped out for her as a way to protect her by giving Magneto what he wanted as the ruler of House of M. If Magneto had not snuffed out Pietro, Wanda would not have been pushed over the edge emotionally in that moment to retaliate Pietro's then-brutal killing and snuff out Magneto and his dreams by uttering those 3 infamous words. As she said in her moment of unstable rage, even when you get what you (Magneto) want, you still harm those you proclaim to love (paraphrase). My point is that even though Pieteo deserved flak for what he set in motion, Magneto has never received any flak from anyone other than Wanda, for what he did to Pietro, which ignited Wanda to do what she did against Magneto, but unintentionally to the whole mutant community due to that enraged moment of instability .

I'm with you on that one. The main share of the blame should go to Quicksilver with Magneto also reciving a good hunk of the blame.

It was obvious at that point that she was unstable and capable of warping reality, so what does Magneto do in his infinite wisdom? He keeps poking her until she breaks even more than she already had. It's like getting mad at a bear for hurting somebody when that person walked up and punched the bear in the face. Quicksilver may have set the whole thing up, but Magneto was the one to finish tearing everything down. He handled that the exact opposite way he should have.

[SerCo]

Do people in Krakoa also call Quicksilver a "pretender"?

[Shadowcat]

Do people in Krakoa also call Quicksilver a "pretender"?

No, because misogyny in X-fandom is very real.

[gurkle]

I'm going to point out the elephant in the room. "Pretender" implies Wanda had either conscious or subconscious desire to actively fake being a mutant for some sort of purpose. Does anyone actually have an issue where Wanda is explicitly said to have faked being a mutant for any purpose other than editorial being editorial? Yes, you can be a pretender and not have any intentions of being one, but if you're going to be a grown woman who faked being a mutant, you better have some motive behind it. No one pretends to be someone else for absolutely no reason at all.

Well, the "Pretender" term comes from Exodus, so it's not intended to be true.

A lot of what Hickman and co. are doing is getting mileage out of anti-Wanda sentiment, but only putting it in the mouths of characters like Exodus, or kids who don't know any better. So we've seen Spurrier use that as a defense when Scarlet Witch fans get mad at him.

It rings hollow, though, because it's been going on for a long time and not a single character in any of these comics has ever spoken up for Wanda, and she's not allowed to appear to speak up for herself, so it seems more like they're exploiting Wanda-hatred to get fans riled up, but pretending that they're not doing that.

The fact that Wanda has not been in any comics for such a long time is not exactly Hickman's fault (unless they're saving her for his story, which isn't out of the question), but at this point I'd only be interested in the story if some character, any character, would speak up for her. And they don't even have to be right! Give it to a villain who thinks Wanda is great for wiping out mutants, whatever. But she never gets to be treated as a character in any of these stories.

I had the same problem with the Decimation era. Billy in Children's Crusade was the first character ever, after all those years, to argue that he didn't believe Wanda would do such a thing because she's a hero and an Avenger. Agan, that argument didn't have to be true, but it was just a sign of how little any writer cared about her that no one even thought to have someone speak up for her, even to be wrong. Of course people who loved the character from 1964-2004 would be annoyed at seeing her so-called friends like Beast just accept that she's irredeemably evil and dismiss all alternative explanations out of hand.

Just bring her into a story, or let Beast speak up about the Wanda he served with on the Avengers... Beast is always wrong anyway so that would be a great way to stir up Beast-hatred and Wanda-hatred at once. But this is the second time when she's been banned from comics except as an off-panel boogyman in X-Men comics, and if that's happening now, when putting her in comics might have actually made them some money, I don't see any hope that Marvel publishing will ever stop hating her.

[Alan2099]

Well, the "Pretender" term comes from Exodus, so it's not intended to be true.

A lot of what Hickman and co. are doing is getting mileage out of anti-Wanda sentiment, but only putting it in the mouths of characters like Exodus, or kids who don't know any better.

So then question is, why have people latched on to "Wanda is the Pretender" rather than "Exodus is being some manipulative creep"?

Especially since Exodus's entire history in the X-books has been to be a manipulative fanatical racists creep.

[gurkle]

So then question is, why have people latched on to "Wanda is the Pretender" rather than "Exodus is being some manipulative creep"?

Because no one in-story calls Exodus out on being a manipulative creep. So the writers can say we're not necessarily supposed to agree with him, but the fact that there's no pushback from the characters means that "Wanda is the Pretender" is a meme the writers are trying (successfully) to popularize, while still being able to say they're not endorsing it.

Maybe there will be pushback someday, but I've been waiting for a long time, even by Hickman's slow-burn standards. Between that and waiting for Wanda to be in a comic again, it ain't fun.