Is wanda the pretender or no? Poll

[Lucyinthesky]

You are right about Pietro setting things in motion in the HOM reveal. As wrong as it was on his (Pietro) part, as Wanda's twin sibling, he was desperate to save the life of his sister when he heard some of the talk at the Avengers/X-Men discussion that some suggested Wanda be killed. (Decimation had not happened yet. The heroes at the conference were seriously worried what Wanda might do with her powers - not knowing she possessed the Life Force which amped up her powers and caused her periods of mental instability.) What drove the car over the cliff so to speak, was Magneto brutally sniffing out Pietro and Wanda witnessing her twin being brutally killed by the person she then had come to know as their father. She was already in a mentally delicate state due to the then unknown power source (Life Force) she had acquired, followed by the damage she had done under the influence of the Life Force (and somehow Doom, retconned later) to cause the deaths of 3 Avengers and a dismantling of the Avengers team. Yet, up until Magneto brutally killing off Pietro, Wanda was holding her own just content to play with her children and allow Magneto to become the ruler of society, following the guidelines that Pietro mapped out for her as a way to protect her by giving Magneto what he wanted as the ruler of House of M. If Magneto had not snuffed out Pietro, Wanda would not have been pushed over the edge emotionally in that moment to retaliate Pietro's then-brutal killing and snuff out Magneto and his dreams by uttering those 3 infamous words. As she said in her moment of unstable rage, even when you get what you (Magneto) want, you still harm those you proclaim to love (paraphrase). My point is that even though Pieteo deserved flak for what he set in motion, Magneto has never received any flak from anyone other than Wanda, for what he did to Pietro, which ignited Wanda to do what she did against Magneto, but unintentionally to the whole mutant community due to that enraged moment of instability .

Magneto didn´t wish HoM to exist, Magneto only wanted Wanda to get better and Pietro wanted to save her, HoM was just a way Pietro and Wanda thought they could do it and that´s why Magneto attacked Pietro when he found out the truth because he thought Pietro had manipulated Wando into creating that world also lost control. He also received flak from Pietro himself and the X-men after HoM btw and if that´s not enough he was also almost killed by the Avengers when the collective tried to posses him so I would not say he was just left scott free and all that.Now the irony is that hom is one instance in which he actually priositized Wanda´s well being over caring for mutants and this is how it ended, the man can´t win or he should just keep himself minding his own bussines next time.

This is not the first time we have talked about this and it´s why I think those arguments just go in a circular way and at the end of the day this story still is left open when it should have gotten closure years ago, so I hope what the X and Avengers office is doing or plans to do points to that direction.

[gurkle]

One of my least favorite things about "House of M" is how it makes Wanda and Pietro complete afterthoughts to Magneto. Their big plan is to give Magneto everything he wanted; the big "twist" is that the world of M was not Magneto's idea, the Decimation is just to get back at Magneto.

You could really tell it was written from the perspective that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch are only important because they're Magneto's children.

I thought the MCU would finally get it into Marvel editors' heads that they don't need to have anything to do with Magneto for people to be interested in them, but I don't think it's sunk in yet. Maybe it never will.

I have my issues with Wanda's show too, but one thing that puts it way ahead of "House of M" is that it's about the world Wanda wants for herself, not the world Magneto wanted. If "House of M" had been about Wanda and Pietro's ideal world it would have been twice as good and half as popular.

[Lucyinthesky]

I think it was the timing, if Genosha had not been destroyed and Pietro and Wanda didn´t feel kind of sorry for Magneto because he was trying with great difficulty to rebuild and help the few survivors I think their pov would have been less about Magneto himself and more about how to get Wanda away from danger, they probably would have built a world in which they stayed Avengers and married Vision and Crystal, had Luna, Tommy and Billy and also were closer with Lorna and Magneto so their wish for family and for being heros would be present, that world still would have been fought by the Avengers and X-men because "it´s not real" but I guess it would have been something closer to what Wanda and Pietro like as characters.

I don´t think Wanda and Pietro need Magneto either to have good stories but their connection intrigues fans and writers and that´s why it´s still present despite the retcon. If written well it could be something that compliments their characters without absorbing them into the narrative of that being the only important thing about them.

Imo right now Wanda and Pietro just need to be present and have new stories, I would love to read what happened with Wanda´s relationship with brother voodo or if she gets along better with Ilyana now that they work at the same school, Ilyana knows a thing or two about not being in control of herself and Pietro just talking to Luna again, have solo adventures and maybe giving his oppinion about Krakoa would be nice to see especially when he supported Genosha and was part of the goverment.

[Zelena]

So then question is, why have people latched on to "Wanda is the Pretender" rather than "Exodus is being some manipulative creep"?

Especially since Exodus's entire history in the X-books has been to be a manipulative fanatical racists creep.

You can say that it’s an interesting thing, though… Some X-fans endorse a name they know it’s not a honest one. Either they play with it because they like the sound of it or manipulation by comic is a thing.

[maximoffimpact]

[QUOTE=Lucyinthesky;5553575]Magneto didn´t wish HoM to exist, Magneto only wanted Wanda to get better and Pietro wanted to save her, HoM was just a way Pietro and Wanda thought they could do it and that´s why Magneto attacked Pietro when he found out the truth because he thought Pietro had manipulated Wando into creating that world also lost control. He also received flak from Pietro himself and the X-men after HoM btw and if that´s not enough he was also almost killed by the Avengers when the collective tried to posses him so I would not say he was just left scott free and all that.Now the irony is that hom is one instance in which he actually priositized Wanda´s well being over caring for mutants and this is how it ended, the man can´t win or he should just keep himself minding his own bussines next time.

This is not the first time we have talked about this and it´s why I think those arguments just go in a circular way and at the end of the day this story still is left open when it should have gotten closure years ago, so I hope what the X and Avengers office is doing or plans to do points to that direction.



Pietro in his desperate concern to save his sister, convinced her (she was in a mentally fragile state at that time) to create House of M. Wanda created House of M, only because of Pietro's insistence that by doing it, it would resolve their problems. Wanda did not actively plot with Pietro to create House of M, she was too fragile mentally to be actively involved in anything on her own accord IMO.
Magneto was beyond furious, that Pietro was was revealed to be the one behind House of M, because he was the one the Avengers and the X-Men were coming after because they mistakenly thought he was behind it. Your point in Magneto being angry also because he felt Pietro used Wanda to create House of M is valid to me. Pietro did indeed use her, but his main/initial motive was to save her life. (Which we've already covered before.) I am pretty much in agreement with much of your post. The one area were I am not seeing it is when you mentioned Magneto attacking Pietro in House of M. In that particular incident, I am seeing it that Magneto in his brutal attack of Pietro, intended to kill him...and did, to which Wanda resurrected him back to life shortly thereafter. For me, to just say that Magneto attacked Pietro, when he was actually murdered by Magneto IMO lessens the impact and seriousness of that scene, and what was later set in motion by the Pietro's murder. Fortunately, Wanda using the powers available to her, was able to bring him back to life fully healed.

[Lucyinthesky]

I am not blaming Pietro here, I am just explaining Magneto didn´t have anything to do in the building of HoM, they did what they supposed he wanted without taking in consideration what he actually wanted, Pietro thought of it as a gift for his father but magneto only wanted Wanda to get better and he reacted in a furious way blaming Pietro for it hom, not unlike the other characters of the story who woke up from their "dream" with murderous intent and yes it´s a blessing Wanda was able to undo the damage Pietro got or else the story would have been more tragic.

Still this doesn´t justify decimation, she could have attacked magneto back or just take off his powers or if she was angry enough kill him but I understand decimation was marvel editorial end point of the story so she went there. My main point is that until it´s addressed inside story and gets closure we will go on discussing it this story in circles and I hope, if the X-office is doing the whole "pretender" storyline, they at least plan to address it´s an unsuited name for someone who thought she was a mutant and gives way to ending officially the decimation era and HoM story. I understand and agree with their point that the younger generation which was the most affected by decimation because they had friends killed after losing their powers would call her that way or use her name as a bad word but still I don´t like her being called "pretender" because it feels way too much like briging down a character when it´s already down, hope this makes sense

[king of hybrids]

So then question is, why have people latched on to "Wanda is the Pretender" rather than "Exodus is being some manipulative creep"?

Especially since Exodus's entire history in the X-books has been to be a manipulative fanatical racists creep.

Probably because it looks a bit like Exodus just picked it up from the official data pages, which Moira and Xavier seem to have started

Or did no one think it odd that the same thing that started the Pretender thing also excised Cassandra from the narrative?

[BroHomo]

Probably because it looks a bit like Exodus just picked it up from the official data pages, which Moira and Xavier seem to have started

Or did no one think it odd that the same thing that started the Pretender thing also excised Cassandra from the narrative?

In what way?

[CoCoBandz]

In what way?

It's almost like they....don't actually read the books?

[gurkle]

I think the point there is that they don't mention who was behind the Genosha attack, while they play up the "Pretender Wanda Maximoff" thing for all it's worth.

Wanda is a useful boogyman, while Cassandra isn't; the point of propaganda is that it plays up what's useful and omits what isn't.

[BroHomo]

I think the point there is that they don't mention who was behind the Genosha attack, while they play up the "Pretender Wanda Maximoff" thing for all it's worth.

They know who was behind Genosha....the human hate machine

[Covetous_One]

They know who was behind Genosha....the human hate machine

Trask built them, but Cassandra(non-human) sent them

[BroHomo]

Trask built them, but Cassandra(non-human) sent them

She wouldn't have anything to send if not for human complacency with giant death robots. And really that's what they're tryna say

[Covetous_One]

She wouldn't have anything to send if not for human complacency with giant death robots. And really that's what they're tryna say

Same concept can be applied to the Nazi scientist who used his knowledge in astrophysics to send Armstrong to the moon. Built weapons of war and hate and then used them for something or how about Einstein’s nuclear projects being used for war. People can make things for death and be used for purposes to build all people or it can be used as they intended it to. Trask can be blamed for creating those things. Yet Cassandra reprogrammed them to destroy Genosha. It was even shown that one Sentinel who did it felt remorse and tried to right it’s wrong’s by saving the earth. So blame the person who pulled the switch if your going to also blame the engineer.

[Alan2099]

I think that's also over looking the fact that when Cassandra sent them, they had already been left shut down in the middle of nowhere and left to rot with almost no way left to reactivate them. They were as close to smashed and throw in the trash as you could make them.