Is wanda the pretender or no? Poll

[CoCoBandz]

There's a reason for it and it's antagonization of Wanda fans. That's all it is.

It's not that deep.

[BroHomo]

It's not that deep.

It really isn't...
The last 37 pages are people defending a Mutant mass murderer Yet I'm supposed feel some type of way correcting head canon? Reads like a classic case of (non-Astral) projection.

[Zelena]

It's not that deep.

I agree: it isn’t deep.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

It really isn't...
The last 37 pages are people defending a Mutant mass murderer Yet I'm supposed feel some type of way correcting head canon? Reads like a classic case of (non-Astral) projection.

Says the one using their own head canon...

[Journey]

This whole thread is childish.

[Covetous_One]

This whole thread is childish.

I love it that way

[gurkle]

I enjoy these threads just for the philosophical differences on how to approach these characters/stories.

On the one hand, saying that "what happened, happened" -- Wanda was shown wiping out mutants, therefore Wanda is a genocidal maniac.

On the other hand, fans who say that a (to them) out of character moment doesn't count. Wanda wiping out mutants was not something she would have done, so it doesn't count, just like if some writer forgot that Batman doesn't use guns, it doesn't make Batman a gun user.

It's interesting to me because we're all playing the game of which stories to treat as "real." Of course we all act like the characters and stories are real, or at least real enough to be worth caring about. But which is the "real" Wanda, the Wanda from House of M, or the Wanda from before 2004? That's an interesting question to me.

It's unusually clear with Wanda because her most famous story is a story she's barely in and had barely any buildup, so her fans don't really accept it the way Jean's fans accept Dark Phoenix. MCU Wanda's fans mostly don't dismiss the bad things she did in "WandaVision' because the show made a good case for why those things happened and why it was in-character for her to do the things she did. But "No more mutants" really has no buildup at all, so how much you accept it really depends on how little you liked Wanda before that story.

So that makes these arguments fun because they're really arguments about which stories "count" for a character.

[GenericUsername]

I enjoy these threads just for the philosophical differences on how to approach these characters/stories.

On the one hand, saying that "what happened, happened" -- Wanda was shown wiping out mutants, therefore Wanda is a genocidal maniac.

On the other hand, fans who say that a (to them) out of character moment doesn't count. Wanda wiping out mutants was not something she would have done, so it doesn't count, just like if some writer forgot that Batman doesn't use guns, it doesn't make Batman a gun user.

It's interesting to me because we're all playing the game of which stories to treat as "real." Of course we all act like the characters and stories are real, or at least real enough to be worth caring about. But which is the "real" Wanda, the Wanda from House of M, or the Wanda from before 2004? That's an interesting question to me.

It's unusually clear with Wanda because her most famous story is a story she's barely in and had barely any buildup, so her fans don't really accept it the way Jean's fans accept Dark Phoenix. MCU Wanda's fans mostly don't dismiss the bad things she did in "WandaVision' because the show made a good case for why those things happened and why it was in-character for her to do the things she did. But "No more mutants" really has no buildup at all, so how much you accept it really depends on how little you liked Wanda before that story.

So that makes these arguments fun because they're really arguments about which stories "count" for a character.

I'm very much of the mind that none of it is real. So my perspective is it was a crappy mandate and one of many terrible events cultivated to shock for sales.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

I enjoy these threads just for the philosophical differences on how to approach these characters/stories.

On the one hand, saying that "what happened, happened" -- Wanda was shown wiping out mutants, therefore Wanda is a genocidal maniac.

On the other hand, fans who say that a (to them) out of character moment doesn't count. Wanda wiping out mutants was not something she would have done, so it doesn't count, just like if some writer forgot that Batman doesn't use guns, it doesn't make Batman a gun user.

It's interesting to me because we're all playing the game of which stories to treat as "real." Of course we all act like the characters and stories are real, or at least real enough to be worth caring about. But which is the "real" Wanda, the Wanda from House of M, or the Wanda from before 2004? That's an interesting question to me.

It's unusually clear with Wanda because her most famous story is a story she's barely in and had barely any buildup, so her fans don't really accept it the way Jean's fans accept Dark Phoenix. MCU Wanda's fans mostly don't dismiss the bad things she did in "WandaVision' because the show made a good case for why those things happened and why it was in-character for her to do the things she did. But "No more mutants" really has no buildup at all, so how much you accept it really depends on how little you liked Wanda before that story.

So that makes these arguments fun because they're really arguments about which stories "count" for a character.

The easiest answer to all this, of course, was the canon reason that we were given: she was possessed.

Some people just don’t want to accept that.

Sure, she can be criticized for some of the things she said afterwards, particularly when written by Remender (although his writing is contradicted by others, namely Heinberg, Robinson, and [oddly enough] Bendis) and bringing back mutant zombies was...an odd choice (mostly because Genosha wasn’t her fault). And one can argue that she hasn’t “done enough”. But she canonically wasn’t in her right mind, and a superior force was driving the wheel.

It really is that simple.

[Zelena]

I enjoy these threads just for the philosophical differences on how to approach these characters/stories.

On the one hand, saying that "what happened, happened" -- Wanda was shown wiping out mutants, therefore Wanda is a genocidal maniac.

On the other hand, fans who say that a (to them) out of character moment doesn't count. Wanda wiping out mutants was not something she would have done, so it doesn't count, just like if some writer forgot that Batman doesn't use guns, it doesn't make Batman a gun user.

It's interesting to me because we're all playing the game of which stories to treat as "real." Of course we all act like the characters and stories are real, or at least real enough to be worth caring about. But which is the "real" Wanda, the Wanda from House of M, or the Wanda from before 2004? That's an interesting question to me.

It's unusually clear with Wanda because her most famous story is a story she's barely in and had barely any buildup, so her fans don't really accept it the way Jean's fans accept Dark Phoenix. MCU Wanda's fans mostly don't dismiss the bad things she did in "WandaVision' because the show made a good case for why those things happened and why it was in-character for her to do the things she did. But "No more mutants" really has no buildup at all, so how much you accept it really depends on how little you liked Wanda before that story.

So that makes these arguments fun because they're really arguments about which stories "count" for a character.

Sorry, I’m not in favor of forgive or forget… My take was I read the story of a woman who, at one time, was not in full possession of her faculties. When you possess such vast powers, it can lead to unfortunate dramatic consequences. Much more than when you don’t have powers for a similar state of mind. Who hasn’t said terrible things in a rush of blood?

[Baron of Faltine]

Sorry, I’m not in favor of forgive or forget… My take was I read the story of a woman who, at one time, was not in full possession of her faculties. When you possess such vast powers, it can lead to unfortunate dramatic consequences. Much more than when you don’t have powers for a similar state of mind. Who hasn’t said terrible things in a rush of blood?

this is why i suggested that a possible solution would have been a Trial. A fair trial will show her responsibilities, yes, but also show mitigating circumstances or even show she was not in possess of her faculties to choose in clear mind.
<funny thing i don't thing "trials" had been made all that often in Marvel comics, I rember Magneto in old days, but...nothign else...except perhaps in Devil comics of course>

[Zelena]

this is why i suggested that a possible solution would have been a Trial. A fair trial will show her responsibilities, yes, but also show mitigating circumstances or even show she was not in possess of her faculties to choose in clear mind.

It’s the author of the story that shows why a character is acting in a certain manner… It should leave no doubt about the state of mind, the liability of the participants… Nothing has been withheld to the reader.

To paint Wanda as someone who woke up one day and said “Oh, all these mutants! I have enough! There are too many of them… No more mutants.” is a sign of bad faith.

[BroHomo]

She went out looking and Possessed by some sh!t she shouldnt have been fvcking with.

[gurkle]

She went out looking and Possessed by some sh!t she shouldnt have been fvcking with.

This whole thread seems to bounce back and forth between acting like Children's Crusade doesn't exist and that Children's Crusade is canon when it suggests M-Day might have been Wanda's fault.

I mean, fine, but if you accept Children's Crusade as gospel then you have to accept that Scott refused to allow Wanda to give mutants back their powers and all the other stuff from that story that makes the X-Men look bad.

I never thought to hate Scott for the way he treated Wanda in that story, because I know it was just one writer making him act like that for that one story. I will never understand hating Wanda because of one panel where she was genocidal; why judge characters based on their worst writing?

I do wish they would provide a definitive explanation for how M-Day happened, what the "Life Force" was and what it did to Wanda, but Marvel won't even use Wanda in comics at all; they're never going to do a story like that.

[Cubbyboo]

This whole thread seems to bounce back and forth between acting like Children's Crusade doesn't exist and that Children's Crusade is canon when it suggests M-Day might have been Wanda's fault.

I mean, fine, but if you accept Children's Crusade as gospel then you have to accept that Scott refused to allow Wanda to give mutants back their powers and all the other stuff from that story that makes the X-Men look bad.

I never thought to hate Scott for the way he treated Wanda in that story, because I know it was just one writer making him act like that for that one story. I will never understand hating Wanda because of one panel where she was genocidal; why judge characters based on their worst writing?

I do wish they would provide a definitive explanation for how M-Day happened, what the "Life Force" was and what it did to Wanda, but Marvel won't even use Wanda in comics at all; they're never going to do a story like that.

]

True. I never thought to hate Scott. At all. But guys that's not how we think or react -it's obvious. Arguing with bro and banz and any others like that is useless as they really do enjoy it. It's obvious that it gives them pleasure just glancing back over their posts. Who cares? Seriously, it's obvious marvel wanted badly to cut back the mutants for the stories going forward and she was their tool/puppet. They know that - it's basic (If they don't then that's beyond anyone here to help) and they are goading people and it's actually repulsive to see. Let em hate her for whatever reasons they want -they obviously enjoy it. Don't let them perpetuate the negativity. It's not that deep is true - it's basic negativity and baiting like mean kids in school. Seriously they don't matter. I see y'all being warm friendly and kind in other threads and when I look I see comments from them and some others often being sarcastic and negative and who needs it? Leave the thread and leave em behind. Don't give bottom feeders what they want. They're enjoying it and it feeds an appetite that likes to antagonize.

Just think about the story where Wiccan was being bullied because he's gay and Wanda - before they even knew who each other really was- told him he's great just as he is and there's nothing wrong with who he is. That's the Scarlet Witch we've always known and that's all that matters. They don't know about things like that in her history or even care it's obvious. Leave this thread. Let it die. It's become negative. It's fun coming here and interacting with Wanda fans from around the world- a nice group. The Wanda fans I've seen are positive and lots of fun to interact with - stick with that :-) I'm loving now as I'm wrapping up this semester almost everyone at my university knows who she is by Wanda and Scarlet Witch. Don't even mind absence in comics as she's so popular now. All is hear is positive stuff and how much they love her etc... lol my brother's friends (LGBT btw and the guys are just so fun and handsome and smart) adore her and the ones who read comics tell me she always has been fave along with Jean but now she like icon status period even if you don't read comics lol. Just enjoy it all.