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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Magical thinking can bring comfort to some. If you've lost a loved one, especially a spouse or child, the thought of the possibility (or better yet, the likelihood if you're a believer) you might get to see and spend time with them again is a strong draw. So to is the idea that you have a purpose, that there's a plan, and while it's clearly not the case on Earth/reality (see Donald Trump) that good ultimately always triumphs and evil is ultimately always punished.

    There's a reason these ideas have been around so long and bring in so much money and power. They're appealing. If you don't examine them too closely or question. The danger comes with the certainty and need to convince others. That's where you get gay people being given electroshock therapy or little girls getting acid splashed in their face for wanting to learn to read. Or just plain junk science that might delay advances in humanity's progress for no good reason, other than propping up outdated but comforting magical thinking.
    Formerly finfangfool

  2. #32
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    Keep “creationism” in the churches, I say. If some Bible study enthusiasts want to learn there, then that’s fine.

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannoraptor View Post
    What would be the consequences of creationism if deemed worse than Donald Trump's disastrous suggestions?
    The answer is the same harm it will do if not deemed worse than Trump's suggestions.
    It will do harm no matter how you want to qualify it.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  4. #34
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    Creationism shouldn't be taught in schools. I believe it's a backdoor way of making converts out of people. save converting other people for your interpersonal relationships. if you believe that Jesus is the answer, and want to share the Gospel with everybody you know... great. go ahead. but don't try to force people into becoming converts by using public schools as an instrument.

    you might even argue from religious perspectives that this would be an unacceptable 'sacrifice'; that is to say a sacrifice that was not made with the right intentions.

    I'm with the Puritan Roger Williams on this matter. the state should be there to preserve civil order and administer justice to the people... but it SHOULD NOT be used to force people into becoming religious converts. the fact that Williams insisted that the Indians should be properly paid and recompensed for their lands also seems like a good thing. of course, he was considered a controversial oddball in his time. I do like the fact that he specifically mentioned King Stephen of Poland on page 152 of the Bloudy Tenent: "I am a civil magistrate over the bodies of men, not a spiritual (magistrate) over their souls."

    Christians shouldn't be appointing themselves rulers over the souls of other people.

  5. #35
    Spectacular Member Tyrannoraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    I don't understand why there needs to be a comparison between these two totally disparate things.

    Creationism is bad all on its own, because it demands faith over reason. Reason being one of God's gifts to us, and faith being one of his demands of us.

    Taken to its logical conclusion, creationism demands that we accept that God has lied to us about the history of creation, in order to test our faith that He is the is the ultimate judge of truth.

    There's a word for that kind of reasoning. Satanic. It ultimately leads to hate, prejudice, and suffering
    Okay the reason why i compared this is because i've never expected such a religious belief to be much worse than i've ever though when someone said it's worse than some of Donald Trump's disastrous ideas and if creationism were deemed this awful that's sound kinda like utter blasphemy!

  6. #36
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Blasphemy is bullshit. It is just a way to shut down the questioning of any religious idea. It stops people from pointing out the illogical and factually wrong parts of religion.
    There are many religious beliefs that are worse than things Trump said.
    Currently we have Republican States taking away the rights of Gay and Transgender people, making abortion illegal, and changing history textbooks, all based on religion. That is serious harm.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannoraptor View Post
    Okay the reason why i compared this is because i've never expected such a religious belief to be much worse than i've ever though when someone said it's worse than some of Donald Trump's disastrous ideas and if creationism were deemed this awful that's sound kinda like utter blasphemy!
    er, what? I hope English is not your primary language because... this didn't make very much sense.

    strict Creationism is not the only acceptable interpretation of the Bible. there is plenty of room for alternative readings of the text. sure, some people would treat that as a blasphemous idea... but it's true. some ancient Jewish scholars did NOT take a literal reading of the creation narrative.

    when reading a text, a lot of people bring their own ideas and experiences into the narrative. this is why John Shelby Spong can declare that when Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding that it MUST have been his own wedding. why does he argue this? Spong stated that the only time he and his mother were ever at a wedding together was at his own wedding. so, obviously a completely different culture thousands of years ago would have done things the exact same way, right? this completely ignores the very different historical context of the narrative. at that time, a wedding was a community event where everybody in a village might be invited.

    this ignorance of context and authorial intent is why people can produce absurd post hoc theories (imposing their will onto the source text) that Donald Trump is the new Cyrus... when, based on how he actually behaves... I'd probably compare him to Eglon!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Blasphemy is bullshit. It is just a way to shut down the questioning of any religious idea. It stops people from pointing out the illogical and factually wrong parts of religion.
    There are many religious beliefs that are worse than things Trump said.
    Currently we have Republican States taking away the rights of Gay and Transgender people, making abortion illegal, and changing history textbooks, all based on religion. That is serious harm.
    shutting down arguments isn't an exclusively religious activity, though. I've seen people try to shut down other people's arguments by calling them fascists, racists, homophobes, and so on. instead of arguing against the validity of the ideas, often people will simply throw out ad hominem attacks that accuse the other party of being morally evil.

    we live in an era where people are violently turning against the idea and practice of tolerance on both sides of the political spectrum. it's at a point now where people are not even allowed to have strongly different opinions without somebody accusing them of being the embodiment of evil.

    I have repeatedly argued against race-based reparations (in the real world, not online) because I belief they are insufficient to eliminate the problems of systemic racial inequality. I've had people say that this meant I was a racist.

    okay.. fine. now, I believe it's simply inadequate to meet the need. it's like those COVID-19 stimulus checks that were sent out. did they help out a bit, in regards the economic impact of the disease? yeah. but did these payments do anything to change the problem of the disease spreading? no. did these payments bring people back that had died because of the disease? no. do these payments actively create more opportunities for work? not for most people. solving this large scale cultural problem is going to take a LOT more than throwing handfuls of money at people.

    but, if I don't think reparations are a good idea-- this automatically makes me a racist in the minds of some people.

    and accusations of moral failings and evil will happen everywhere there is an adherence to a formal ideology or deeply held moral convictions.

    I've read classic insults like "insufficiently dialectical" or "insufficiently materialist" when one Communist wants to condemn another Communist for failing to live up to their specific ideals of what the true praxis should represent. sure, it isn't EXACTLY the same as "you wicked blasphemer!"... but it DOES appear to be said in the same 'spirit'!

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I never said it was exclusive to religion. But there is a long history of statements deemed blasphemous leading to someone's execution. Something that continues in some countries today.
    Of course there are similar circumstances in other oppressive societies, something many of these Christo-Republicans want here.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #40
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    shutting down arguments isn't an exclusively religious activity, though. I've seen people try to shut down other people's arguments by calling them fascists, racists, homophobes, and so on. instead of arguing against the validity of the ideas, often people will simply throw out ad hominem attacks that accuse the other party of being morally evil.

    we live in an era where people are violently turning against the idea and practice of tolerance on both sides of the political spectrum.
    When you understand that religion is a political spectrum and always has been, you begin to understand that the era we now live in is the one we have pretty much always lived in.

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