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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    In your opinion. So, again, it wasn't "factual."



    No, the scenes don't make it "factual" because how people view and interpret those scenes are opinion. All those clips show is what was aired. The quality of those clips are subjective.



    Which you interject with your views of those clips, making them subjective.

    But, then again, we've already established you don't know what objectivity actually is despite using it ad nauseam.
    Do not feed the troll

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Do not feed the troll
    Using my own advise against me, I see.

    Sorry, I can't help myself sometimes. It's too easy.
    Last Read: Vagabond vol. 2

    Monthly Pull List: Action Comics, Batman/Catwoman, Batman/Superman, Catwoman, Daredevil, The Flash, Infinite Frontier, Nightwing, Runaways, Strange Adventures, Superman

  3. #93
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    Using my own advise against me, I see.

    Sorry, I can't help myself sometimes. It's too easy.
    We Have all been there and blocking doesn't work because you still see they're posts when other people quote them. Then end up repying to them secondhand lol

    So rumor is theres is a young Latin looking kid with a small part in Eternals. And that he's playing a Young Namor. Take it with a big grain of salt but the only casting for BP2 is Tenoch Huerta from Narcos. Maybe he's Namor if they are gonna go with a Mayan vibe for Atlantis. Never watched Narcos or the spin offs but I've heard good things about Huerta. Think going a Latin America direction with Atlantis is a creative take. Loved Mamoa as Aquaman but wish Atlantis coulda been Polynesian influenced instead of just white people(Except the more animalistic characters)
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 05-11-2021 at 08:55 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    We Have all been there and blocking doesn't work because you still see they're posts when other people quote them. Then end up repying to them secondhand lol

    So rumor is theres is a young Latin looking kid with a small part in Eternals. And that he's playing a Young Namor. Take it with a big grain of salt but the only casting for BP2 is Tenoch Huerta from Narcos. Maybe he's Namor if they are gonna go with a Mayan vibe for Atlantis. Never watched Narcos or the spin offs but I've heard good things about Huerta. Think going a Latin America direction with Atlantis is a creative take. Loved Mamoa as Aquaman but wish Atlantis coulda been Polynesian influenced instead of just white people(Except the more animalistic characters)
    If they want more diversity, why use it on a jerk like Namor?

  5. #95
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    If they want more diversity, why use it on a jerk like Namor?
    Namor is a great character depending who's writing him. Alot of great characters are jerks. Also there was zero chance he's was gonna end up being white. While he is in the comics anyway just reading a comic with him in it probably thinks he's Asian. I would assume they woulda went asian with him in the MCU. But I think a south American culture influence is a cool idea for Atlantis. Mayan/Inca/Aztec etc... Latin characters are probably the most lacking in the mcu. They make up a huge part of America and have the least representation in the MCU.. prior to Shang Chi they would have been tied with Asians. Anyway Namor is a great character depending on the writer. He's a dick but he's also insanely heroic. Usually when he takes a villians turn its to save Atlantis. Again depends on the writer but I've always found him to be a highly likable asshole. Personally I like asshole characters. Raphael is my favorite turtle,Wolverine my favorite Xmen, not my favorite Lantern but I do really like Guy Gardner.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Namor is a great character depending who's writing him. Alot of great characters are jerks. Also there was zero chance he's was gonna end up being white. While he is in the comics anyway just reading a comic with him in it probably thinks he's Asian. I would assume they woulda went asian with him in the MCU. But I think a south American culture influence is a cool idea for Atlantis. Mayan/Inca/Aztec etc... Latin characters are probably the most lacking in the mcu. They make up a huge part of America and have the least representation in the MCU.. prior to Shang Chi they would have been tied with Asians. Anyway Namor is a great character depending on the writer. He's a dick but he's also insanely heroic. Usually when he takes a villians turn its to save Atlantis. Again depends on the writer but I've always found him to be a highly likable asshole. Personally I like asshole characters. Raphael is my favorite turtle,Wolverine my favorite Xmen, not my favorite Lantern but I do really like Guy Gardner.
    Maybe it's just me but I've never found him likeable. He's antagonistic for no reason IMO. Tbh I've struggled to understand the point of Namor in the MCU.

    I'd like way more Central and South American diversity in the MCU. Idk if he's necessarily the right character for that. I hope at least the MCU gets more CA/SA characters

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    As I said, I dont watch them in 2021 but what I can say is I would trust some of them are now sophisticated, though from what I saw last with marvel cartoons, they don't seem to qualify.
    Dunno, Marvel Rising was pretty good (cheap budget aside).

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    What you are saying shows otherwise. what also seem to be a future last ditch effort, to savage what may become of Phase 4 and beyond with MCU Xmen. I don't think this will help though? Let me give you an objective metrics of how in-depth X-Men TAS was that is still relevant today far beyond the realms of comic book stuff in 2021. Since a lot of adults who are now of age feel differently.
    The MCU X-Men movies will stand or fall on their own merits. The old cartoon was a different medium made in a different time. It's as irrelevant to them as it was to the original movie series on that front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Also even for many who were solely fox films defenders, they would be the first to admit that the best interpretation of xmen stories was the cartoons and this are some staunch fox film defenders, that will tell you X3 was 100% great and would always point out the hard hitting mature gritter films like Logan or DOFP, films MCU dare not dare to try doing, they will still tell you the xmen tas Saturday morning cartoon were above all those films. So I am just trying to give you the high standard that show was held by, in the marvel universe and beyond. Additionally because of the nature of xmen stories, the blunt social commentary and brash themes was more openly outhere than Batman TAS. so any claim of ageing badly, especially now at a time anything comic book stuff is dismissed as theme parks or just a means to sell toys.
    Where do you get this stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    So to be indeed frank, saying the series did not live up to his peers, would be your own personal MCU POV opinion, it is not based on any fair objective artistic credential as the artistic credential proves the opposite.
    Wrong; you brought up the MCU in relation to the old cartoon, not me. In fact, I think the MCU is irrelevant to X-Men cartoon's success or failure (or lack therof), just as the cartoon is irrelevant to the MCU. Maybe you should stop projecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    the series was a game changer among a 3's of game changers. when the series was first pitched, marvel in truth fought the more complex thoughtful minded story telling. In fact this is one era, it did better than Batman TAS, because the series gave more forces to human vs mutant conflict that was always very grey and not black and white which added to complex story telling unlike Batman though complex in a different way was more focused on Batman as a good person locking up bad criminals. though done in a very serious toned way with Batman.Also just to highlight the direct good comparison with Batman TAS and X-MEN

    ''The super-cartoons of the í70s and í80s presented tidily defeated villains, one per episode. That was still the case in the í90s, as evidenced by X-Menís peer Batman: The Animated Series. Debuting just under two months earlier, the deeply noir Batman: TAS elevated the Saturday morning cartoon into a cinematic experience. With instantly recognizable character designs and a palpable, moody atmosphere, Batman is a masterpiece. But while it pushed boundaries for writing and animation, it played it safe when it came to serialization. You could miss an episode of Batman, as pretty much every episode ended with the villain in Commissioner Gordonís hands and Batman safely brooding in the Batcave. Superhero cartoons, despite leaping forth from the heavily-serialized pages of Marvel and DC comics, never attempted to mimic their source materialís storytelling structure.X-Men supervising producer Will Meugniot told Decider via email that the minds behind Marvelís mutant show wanted to do something different. ďOur goal was to emulate the experience of reading the actual comics, rather than delivering a dumbed down version as had been done in the past by shows like Super Friends and Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, and that necessitated more complex stories with drawn out character arcs.Ē

    End quote of factual evidence.
    An option is not "factual evidence," nor do good intentions equal automatic success (remember, no one is denying that the X-Men cartoon creators were aiming high, just if the crappy animation and melodramatic presentation have held the show back in comparisons to other programs of the era like the Batman cartoon that are still held up as having exceptionally good craftsmanship on all fronts).

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    So there is the confirmation of some of the differences with batman and xmen tas. just so you know that sterilised story telling tended to be more nuanced, batman tas worked as more stand alone episode. also I love how the creator of TAS, used the word of not dumbing the cartoon because the comics were not dumb down. Also I have pointed earlier before I even read the article fully, about how the villain and heroes worked in batman tas, with the villains indeed ending up with batman giving them to Gordan, X-MEN TAS tales was fare more complex than locking bad guys up at the end of all the series. this is also why that said more complex stories with drawn out character arcs.
    And yet Batman gave us "Heart of Ice, "Birds of a Feather," "Mad Love," and Mask of the Phantasm. Two-Face's story arc is remembered for its depth. They also did this:



    Funny how the Batman cartoon is remembered for its complex writing and characters, while X-Men is remembered for the cheese and weak animation before the writing comes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Additionally, X-Men evolution though great in its own right and was acclaimed was still Under X-MEN TAS. There has hardly been any comic TV historian that has ranked evolution above TAS. saying evolution had more impact would be like saying A Different world had more impact than The Cosby show.
    "Impact" is a funny thing in how measure it. In terms of how it affected the franchise, Evolution wins hands down, since it created X-23, who's gone on to be a noted comics character, while the original cartoon never contributed anything of that nature (the comic book continuation notwithstanding). Heck, even the forgotten, one season Wolverine and the X-Men left more of a tangible footprint with the MRD then the old cartoon. (Even the '90s Spider-Man cartoon, as contested as it's aging as been, rewrote how the black suit/Venom origin story works and has footprints in the Raimi movies.)

    Even if you look at animation as a whole, I'm not sure X-Men even ranks in terms of practical pop culture impact, trailing behind the likes of the old Batman cartoon (which literally changed the source material forever and molded future media in the franchise) or the original Transformers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoons (which literally created multimillion-dollar franchises and characters who are pop culture juggernauts on the level of X-Men). And that's not going into how stuff like Tom and Jerry and Looney Tunes are what you cover when it comes to milestones of animation history, the stuff way above X-Men's weight level.

    I mean, what is X-Men: TAS remembered for positively? It's ambitions and people who saw it as kids still loving it. That's not much, considering the animation genre as a whole and how we've observed other shows leaving more of a footprint. I get liking old cartoons that are showing their age. I love the old Star Trek cartoon, with its badly limited animation, but ambitions to make a serious cartoon. Seriously, why don't we talk about that anymore? Years before X-Men: TAS was even a thing, Star Trek: TAS was trying to be a mature cartoon on the kids block (the people working on it confirmed that they approached it as they had its live action predecessor and several studio offers were turned down because they were pitching a childish take on the material), and, more often then not, they succeeded. Heck, one of the reasons it was canceled was because it was more popular with adults then with children.

    Maybe the original X-Men cartoon (and Batman, for that matter), weren't quite the first of their kind after all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Honestly, I dont get all the faux narrative and the attempt to rewrite xmen tas history,LOL. Although I know the likely future to why because these are the same people who are also saying light hearted action driven comedy xmen films would work well and even better than the other films and X-MEN TAS had already obliterated that narrative. however I still think you should wait a bit. Let MCU light hearted action driven comedy XMEN come out in phase 4 or phase 5 or whatever and let us get the overall official confirmation again that X-MEN TAS is still and always will remain the best interpretation of the X-Men comics done on screen since I agree more with Luprki when he says a Saturday morning cartoon show is still going to be more sophisticated than the Fiege X-MEN movies and ironically, no other series would be more equipped to prove this right than X-MEN TAS.
    Frankly, I agree; give the studio a chance to make something before writing it off, esp. as they've proven they will do more dramatic content. Still, if you need to prop up an old cartoon to prove a modern-day movie series is bad, that really makes it look like a weak position to maintain.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  8. #98
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Maybe it's just me but I've never found him likeable. He's antagonistic for no reason IMO. Tbh I've struggled to understand the point of Namor in the MCU.

    I'd like way more Central and South American diversity in the MCU. Idk if he's necessarily the right character for that. I hope at least the MCU gets more CA/SA characters
    He's a dick to the point it's funny in the comics. He pokes button on people for no reason. Unless you someone he likes and respects and even then he might do some light prodding. Honestly his arrogance and antagonist side isn't that different then Magento or Doom. Difference being Magneto doesn't seem to get off on being a dick like Victor and Namor.

    As far as the point. Namor is more important to the Marvel Universe then a bunch of characters already in the MCU. He's important in a historical sense to the company and in his role in the Marvel Universe. He's a pillar and runs a country only matched by Wakands and Latveria.

    Also I assume they would change alot about Namor. Starting with the Winged feet. If they are gonna make him one of the first Mutants, just have him fly. He don't need the weird wings on his feet that make no sense. If he's not a mutant then he doesn't need to fly.

  9. #99
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Dunno, Marvel Rising was pretty good (cheap budget aside).

    The MCU X-Men movies will stand or fall on their own merits. The old cartoon was a different medium made in a different time. It's as irrelevant to them as it was to the original movie series on that front.

    .
    Historically this is not how long running series works. series will still be judged by their past and what came before. it may be unfair, but that is how the game is played. You of all people would know this, because you never judged Snyder's Superman on its own merit and kept on using Donner Superman and other Superman series as a comparison. So it is only fair you be consistent. The old cartoons been a different medium would not matter, We already see how MCU Spiderman get inferiorly compared to Spiderverse or Spectacular Spiderman and vice versa for Batman cartoons and movies, I don't see that changing with X-MEN.

    Where do you get this stuff?
    Regular comic book fandoms. X books, those X-Men fans there still prefer the animations to any movies. I have seen fans put the DOFP 1 and 2 episodes of TAS over the movie and that is no small feat, when you think DOFP is a movie, Feige can't even imagine putting together. To stress this further and see why some fans will favour the cartoon, when DOFP episodes aired in 1992/1993, it was considered one of the most ground breaking moments on a Saturday morning cartoon. ''kids'' were not used to seeing Saturday morning shows talked so deeply or seriously about assassinations of politicians , human traitors, genocide and concentration camps. LOL , If anyone is still asking for impact of the series? that was one fine moment. I mean, this cant even happen now in any marvel cartoon or even movie in 2021.

    You can easily equate other XMEN TAS episodes like Bloodlines, Courage, Xavier Remembers and Nightcrawler to Batman TAS, episodes also known for their depth, less action scenes and more plot lines, mature story telling and some..... strong religious themes and they were not the sterilised episodes . Just a throw away factual example.



    The best part is that the comments on that clip, is people, marvel's own fans complaining about how generic and far less thought provoking most marvel films are now compared to this 90s show because you dont see this type of stories in comic films anymore in 2021. if we want to talk standing the test of time. this is how you do it. it is not about Rotten tomatoes scores or twitter trends.

    X-MEN TAS was officially named the most successful animated comic cartoon of all time in the 90s. It was one of the things that was keeping marvel out of Bankruptcy in the 90s. Also I believe I have had this discussion before about TMNT, This is a series though very successful in its own right, you would not even know firstly the heroes were ''mutants'' because by the time XMEN TAS was out, X-MEN had Trademarked and patterned the mutant term, no one thinks of mutants and remembers TMNT, first they think of is X-MEN and TMNT is the series that even has the mutant name on the label, so objectively the idea that TMNT had more impact is just laughably false and not to mention, I find very desperate because impact was all down to story telling and rewriting what a ''kids'' cartoons could be and neither TNMT or Transformers story telling went above the kids market. it will be a counterfeit to put TMNT and Transformers on the same level simply because XMEN TAS is considered a very intellectual cartoon. TMNT and Transformers are not. this is a big difference that cannot be glossed over.

    X-Men evolution creating X23 while commendable and impactful still does not give it the overall edge of XMEN TAS , Morph who was an original character in TAS was a bigger deal than X23 pre Logan movie, because he was a the character that had the longest arc on the show and his story arc was darker than X23. Additionally there are some marvel fans that cite XMEN TAS as the real thing that made x-men surpass Spiderman in the 90s as the most valuable Marvel IP and this is no small feat when you think marvel only had about 3 A-Lists IP back then. X-MEN Evolution, mostly stayed in the shadows of TAS. this is just a TV reception fact. if XMEN TAS was Star Trek TNG, Evolution was Star Trek DS9.

    If you ask what is XMEN TAS remembered for, well I trust you know the answer already as already mentioned. you keep on saying kids loved it but the main draw of the series was not kids, the main draw of the series were teens and adults, reason it is always brought up after almost 3 decades, because adults are not in their 30s and 40s and can talk about the show more openly and smartly or now get things on the show, they missed as kids. this also goes back to the origins of the cartoons and why it was so successful, it was secretly not meant for kids

    When we here MCU is not allowed to tackle depression, in a realistic way, marvel fans bring up xmen tas to prove this is wrong. when Fiege tells you marvel cannot be dark, marvel fans will remind you for XMEN TAS episode 1 the now very infamous Night of the Sentinels Episodes that ended on a very dark note and that was just the first episode of the show. when Disney tells us, every marvel IP must deeply connect to the other to be interesting like overplaying the Spiderman/Iron Man dynamic, XMEN TAS destroys that narrative since the only other marvel character it ever interacted with was with Spiderman and only for 2 episodes. No offence to ask what the series is remembered for, is just beyond sad/laughable to me that, I almost feel sorry for how extremely pressed down and ill-equipped MCU looks to that show because the show has all the answers to all the problems many bring up in the MCU most in famous, Spiderman is Iron Man jr or the wrong tone of many of their movies. If xmen had the Ragnarok story line, TAS would never had made it a watered down comedy.

    it was also a far bigger deal for marvel fans when it went on Disney plus. they cared more about that show than their own MCU movies and even accused Disney of trying to remove some of the content of the show.

    https://www.fatherly.com/play/origin...ch-what-order/

    Disney has also toiled with the idea of rebooting the show several times, which would never happen? and this is Disney, a studio that was hell bent on wiping out any marvel stuff not part of the MCU but even Disney does not want to let the series go because they knew the impact of the show

    https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...ot-disney-plus

    Frankly, I agree; give the studio a chance to make something before writing it off, esp. as they've proven they will do more dramatic content. Still, if you need to prop up an old cartoon to prove a modern-day movie series is bad, that really makes it look like a weak position to maintain.
    Not unless the cartoon is officially considered the best interpretation of the series. it's the good girlfriend, you cannot break really up with. As for dramatic content, I dont see that because some of their last films and teasers like falcon and Winter solider and Shang Chi were heavily and looks more on the action driven side and their other films in phase 4 and 5 are still on the comedy side like Thor Love and Thunder and GOTG 3.
    Last edited by Castle; 05-12-2021 at 01:02 AM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    He's a dick to the point it's funny in the comics. He pokes button on people for no reason. Unless you someone he likes and respects and even then he might do some light prodding. Honestly his arrogance and antagonist side isn't that different then Magento or Doom. Difference being Magneto doesn't seem to get off on being a dick like Victor and Namor.

    As far as the point. Namor is more important to the Marvel Universe then a bunch of characters already in the MCU. He's important in a historical sense to the company and in his role in the Marvel Universe. He's a pillar and runs a country only matched by Wakands and Latveria.

    Also I assume they would change alot about Namor. Starting with the Winged feet. If they are gonna make him one of the first Mutants, just have him fly. He don't need the weird wings on his feet that make no sense. If he's not a mutant then he doesn't need to fly.
    I guess I've never found him funny, except maybe when the other heroes fight back against him or something.

    Anyway, yeah, I guess he's important, but something about him always came off as lame to me. He's a water-based hero yet he rarely has any water-based abilities. Instead it's just flying and punching most of the time. As if I've never seen that elsewhere.

    I agree they'd probably drop the wings in live action.

  11. #101
    Swollen Member GOLGO 13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I guess I've never found him funny, except maybe when the other heroes fight back against him or something.

    Anyway, yeah, I guess he's important, but something about him always came off as lame to me. He's a water-based hero yet he rarely has any water-based abilities. Instead it's just flying and punching most of the time. As if I've never seen that elsewhere.

    I agree they'd probably drop the wings in live action.
    Seems like there "2" versions of Namor in Marvel. There's the one that acts like a emo-Aquaman & then there's the one that's a powerhouse bad-azz. The one that can trade punches with the Hulk, used to take on the entire FF at the drop of a hat while tickling Sue's ears in the middle of the fight & had no problems talking smack to Dr. Doom to his face.

    I want the King of Atlantis to show up like a Boss in the MCU & make the Avengers nervous about him unleashing undersea Cthulhu-like horrors on the planet. What we'll get instead is a snowflake inclusive, non-binary freak-show riding a sea-horse chariot to the surface.

    Send in the clowns Mr. Fiege.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLGO 13 View Post
    Seems like there "2" versions of Namor in Marvel. There's the one that acts like a emo-Aquaman & then there's the one that's a powerhouse bad-azz. The one that can trade punches with the Hulk, used to take on the entire FF at the drop of a hat while tickling Sue's ears in the middle of the fight & had no problems talking smack to Dr. Doom to his face.

    I want the King of Atlantis to show up like a Boss in the MCU & make the Avengers nervous about him unleashing undersea Cthulhu-like horrors on the planet. What we'll get instead is a snowflake inclusive, non-binary freak-show riding a sea-horse chariot to the surface.

    Send in the clowns Mr. Fiege.
    I don't get why you're complaining about snowflakes when it comes to Namor of all people?

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLGO 13 View Post
    Seems like there "2" versions of Namor in Marvel. There's the one that acts like a emo-Aquaman & then there's the one that's a powerhouse bad-azz. The one that can trade punches with the Hulk, used to take on the entire FF at the drop of a hat while tickling Sue's ears in the middle of the fight & had no problems talking smack to Dr. Doom to his face.

    I want the King of Atlantis to show up like a Boss in the MCU & make the Avengers nervous about him unleashing undersea Cthulhu-like horrors on the planet. What we'll get instead is a snowflake inclusive, non-binary freak-show riding a sea-horse chariot to the surface.

    Send in the clowns Mr. Fiege.
    I don't think MCU wants to touch anything underwater soon because creative wise, it does not feel like the best thing for them. I feel this is more like the Quicksilver effect, when MCU had to dispose of their own Quicksilver because they could not be bothered to use the same VFX that DOFP used in bringing their Quicksilver to life.

    Namor is something like that but 10x worse from a film making point, because it means MCU would have to use similar VFX to DCU Aquaman and that is going to be hard work, that goes beyond the standard MCU CGI Production that has already been kept in place and all their films just get processed by.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquama...Visual_effects

    From a film making point, Creating Namor and his underwater world is going to be hard work, Fiege can rightfully ignore as I just dont see Fiege, caring enough to try and outdo or match the VFX of Aquaman with Namor and for Fiege who, everything is a competition. He sometimes knows when to bow out and avoid a battle he knows he cannot win. so making a Namor movie is not likely.
    Last edited by Castle; 05-12-2021 at 09:13 AM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't get why you're complaining about snowflakes when it comes to Namor of all people?
    Namor mostly complains about land dwellers activities affecting the ocean. "Snowflake inclusive non-binary freak-show " means an environmentalist lgbt person
    Last edited by Tofali; 05-12-2021 at 09:07 AM.

  15. #105
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLGO 13 View Post
    I want the King of Atlantis to show up like a Boss in the MCU & make the Avengers nervous about him unleashing undersea Cthulhu-like horrors on the planet. What we'll get instead is a snowflake inclusive, non-binary freak-show riding a sea-horse chariot to the surface.
    Tell us more about how frightened you are of aggressively non-binary freakshow Namor who will steal you from your girlfriend and have her love it.

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