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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Namor mostly complains about land dwellers activities affecting the ocean. "Snowflake inclusive non-binary freak-show " means an environmentalist lgbt person
    So giving him an actual reason to be confrontational, and not just making him a toxic alpha

  2. #107
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Historically this is not how long running series works. series will still be judged by their past and what came before. it may be unfair, but that is how the game is played. You of all people would know this, because you never judged Snyder's Superman on its own merit and kept on using Donner Superman and other Superman series as a comparison. So it is only fair you be consistent. The old cartoons been a different medium would not matter, We already see how MCU Spiderman get inferiorly compared to Spiderverse or Spectacular Spiderman and vice versa for Batman cartoons and movies, I don't see that changing with X-MEN.



    Regular comic book fandoms. X books, those X-Men fans there still prefer the animations to any movies. I have seen fans put the DOFP 1 and 2 episodes of TAS over the movie and that is no small feat, when you think DOFP is a movie, Feige can't even imagine putting together. To stress this further and see why some fans will favour the cartoon, when DOFP episodes aired in 1992/1993, it was considered one of the most ground breaking moments on a Saturday morning cartoon. ''kids'' were not used to seeing Saturday morning shows talked so deeply or seriously about assassinations of politicians , human traitors, genocide and concentration camps. LOL , If anyone is still asking for impact of the series? that was one fine moment. I mean, this cant even happen now in any marvel cartoon or even movie in 2021.

    You can easily equate other XMEN TAS episodes like Bloodlines, Courage, Xavier Remembers and Nightcrawler to Batman TAS, episodes also known for their depth, less action scenes and more plot lines, mature story telling and some..... strong religious themes and they were not the sterilised episodes . Just a throw away factual example.



    The best part is that the comments on that clip, is people, marvel's own fans complaining about how generic and far less thought provoking most marvel films are now compared to this 90s show because you dont see this type of stories in comic films anymore in 2021. if we want to talk standing the test of time. this is how you do it. it is not about Rotten tomatoes scores or twitter trends.

    X-MEN TAS was officially named the most successful animated comic cartoon of all time in the 90s. It was one of the things that was keeping marvel out of Bankruptcy in the 90s. Also I believe I have had this discussion before about TMNT, This is a series though very successful in its own right, you would not even know firstly the heroes were ''mutants'' because by the time XMEN TAS was out, X-MEN had Trademarked and patterned the mutant term, no one thinks of mutants and remembers TMNT, first they think of is X-MEN and TMNT is the series that even has the mutant name on the label, so objectively the idea that TMNT had more impact is just laughably false and not to mention, I find very desperate because impact was all down to story telling and rewriting what a ''kids'' cartoons could be and neither TNMT or Transformers story telling went above the kids market. it will be a counterfeit to put TMNT and Transformers on the same level simply because XMEN TAS is considered a very intellectual cartoon. TMNT and Transformers are not. this is a big difference that cannot be glossed over.

    X-Men evolution creating X23 while commendable and impactful still does not give it the overall edge of XMEN TAS , Morph who was an original character in TAS was a bigger deal than X23 pre Logan movie, because he was a the character that had the longest arc on the show and his story arc was darker than X23. Additionally there are some marvel fans that cite XMEN TAS as the real thing that made x-men surpass Spiderman in the 90s as the most valuable Marvel IP and this is no small feat when you think marvel only had about 3 A-Lists IP back then. X-MEN Evolution, mostly stayed in the shadows of TAS. this is just a TV reception fact. if XMEN TAS was Star Trek TNG, Evolution was Star Trek DS9.

    If you ask what is XMEN TAS remembered for, well I trust you know the answer already as already mentioned. you keep on saying kids loved it but the main draw of the series was not kids, the main draw of the series were teens and adults, reason it is always brought up after almost 3 decades, because adults are not in their 30s and 40s and can talk about the show more openly and smartly or now get things on the show, they missed as kids. this also goes back to the origins of the cartoons and why it was so successful, it was secretly not meant for kids

    When we here MCU is not allowed to tackle depression, in a realistic way, marvel fans bring up xmen tas to prove this is wrong. when Fiege tells you marvel cannot be dark, marvel fans will remind you for XMEN TAS episode 1 the now very infamous Night of the Sentinels Episodes that ended on a very dark note and that was just the first episode of the show. when Disney tells us, every marvel IP must deeply connect to the other to be interesting like overplaying the Spiderman/Iron Man dynamic, XMEN TAS destroys that narrative since the only other marvel character it ever interacted with was with Spiderman and only for 2 episodes. No offence to ask what the series is remembered for, is just beyond sad/laughable to me that, I almost feel sorry for how extremely pressed down and ill-equipped MCU looks to that show because the show has all the answers to all the problems many bring up in the MCU most in famous, Spiderman is Iron Man jr or the wrong tone of many of their movies. If xmen had the Ragnarok story line, TAS would never had made it a watered down comedy.

    it was also a far bigger deal for marvel fans when it went on Disney plus. they cared more about that show than their own MCU movies and even accused Disney of trying to remove some of the content of the show.

    https://www.fatherly.com/play/origin...ch-what-order/

    Disney has also toiled with the idea of rebooting the show several times, which would never happen? and this is Disney, a studio that was hell bent on wiping out any marvel stuff not part of the MCU but even Disney does not want to let the series go because they knew the impact of the show

    https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...ot-disney-plus



    Not unless the cartoon is officially considered the best interpretation of the series. it's the good girlfriend, you cannot break really up with. As for dramatic content, I dont see that because some of their last films and teasers like falcon and Winter solider and Shang Chi were heavily and looks more on the action driven side and their other films in phase 4 and 5 are still on the comedy side like Thor Love and Thunder and GOTG 3.
    Okay, you stan XM: TAS. Fine, you do you. All I can say though, is that when the MCU X-Men movies do come out, I think people are going to be more interested in how Sir Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman's successors fair then if Jubilee asks if mall babes eat chili fries.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  3. #108
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    Does a mall babe even exist anymore?

  4. #109
    Fantastic Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    it was also a far bigger deal for marvel fans when it went on Disney plus. they cared more about that show than their own MCU movies and even accused Disney of trying to remove some of the content of the show.

    https://www.fatherly.com/play/origin...ch-what-order/
    Is that link supposed to back up your statement? Because it doesn't, nothing in that article backs up your obviously made-up claim.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  5. #110
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    Can't wait for it.
    And can't wait to go to the movies again^^

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Dunno, Marvel Rising was pretty good (cheap budget aside).



    The MCU X-Men movies will stand or fall on their own merits. The old cartoon was a different medium made in a different time. It's as irrelevant to them as it was to the original movie series on that front.



    Where do you get this stuff?



    Wrong; you brought up the MCU in relation to the old cartoon, not me. In fact, I think the MCU is irrelevant to X-Men cartoon's success or failure (or lack therof), just as the cartoon is irrelevant to the MCU. Maybe you should stop projecting?



    An option is not "factual evidence," nor do good intentions equal automatic success (remember, no one is denying that the X-Men cartoon creators were aiming high, just if the crappy animation and melodramatic presentation have held the show back in comparisons to other programs of the era like the Batman cartoon that are still held up as having exceptionally good craftsmanship on all fronts).



    And yet Batman gave us "Heart of Ice, "Birds of a Feather," "Mad Love," and Mask of the Phantasm. Two-Face's story arc is remembered for its depth. They also did this:



    Funny how the Batman cartoon is remembered for its complex writing and characters, while X-Men is remembered for the cheese and weak animation before the writing comes up.



    "Impact" is a funny thing in how measure it. In terms of how it affected the franchise, Evolution wins hands down, since it created X-23, who's gone on to be a noted comics character, while the original cartoon never contributed anything of that nature (the comic book continuation notwithstanding). Heck, even the forgotten, one season Wolverine and the X-Men left more of a tangible footprint with the MRD then the old cartoon. (Even the '90s Spider-Man cartoon, as contested as it's aging as been, rewrote how the black suit/Venom origin story works and has footprints in the Raimi movies.)

    Even if you look at animation as a whole, I'm not sure X-Men even ranks in terms of practical pop culture impact, trailing behind the likes of the old Batman cartoon (which literally changed the source material forever and molded future media in the franchise) or the original Transformers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoons (which literally created multimillion-dollar franchises and characters who are pop culture juggernauts on the level of X-Men). And that's not going into how stuff like Tom and Jerry and Looney Tunes are what you cover when it comes to milestones of animation history, the stuff way above X-Men's weight level.

    I mean, what is X-Men: TAS remembered for positively? It's ambitions and people who saw it as kids still loving it. That's not much, considering the animation genre as a whole and how we've observed other shows leaving more of a footprint. I get liking old cartoons that are showing their age. I love the old Star Trek cartoon, with its badly limited animation, but ambitions to make a serious cartoon. Seriously, why don't we talk about that anymore? Years before X-Men: TAS was even a thing, Star Trek: TAS was trying to be a mature cartoon on the kids block (the people working on it confirmed that they approached it as they had its live action predecessor and several studio offers were turned down because they were pitching a childish take on the material), and, more often then not, they succeeded. Heck, one of the reasons it was canceled was because it was more popular with adults then with children.

    Maybe the original X-Men cartoon (and Batman, for that matter), weren't quite the first of their kind after all?



    Frankly, I agree; give the studio a chance to make something before writing it off, esp. as they've proven they will do more dramatic content. Still, if you need to prop up an old cartoon to prove a modern-day movie series is bad, that really makes it look like a weak position to maintain.
    The Batman series was one of the greatest animation ever, true. And Gargoyles was another cartoon from the time that is known for the story.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    So giving him an actual reason to be confrontational, and not just making him a toxic alpha
    Namor is a half breed and wants to show he is a better Atlantean than his pure blood blue skinned subjects is part of that. But really being an asshole is part of his character.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnak View Post
    Namor is a half breed and wants to show he is a better Atlantean than his pure blood blue skinned subjects is part of that. But really being an asshole is part of his character.
    Doesn't make him a great character, at least for me. Just a jerk.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Doesn't make him a great character, at least for me. Just a jerk.
    Well he is a villain part of the time.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnak View Post
    Well he is a villain part of the time.
    That's true. Idk what he'll be in the MCU

  11. #116
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Well I can't say I did'nt call this one because I did. Feige is pretty readable and predictable.

    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/ma...5421#gs.3bb458
    LOKI: Kevin Feige Says The Show Will Have A Bigger Impact On The MCU Than WANDAVISION And TFATWS


    I said it from the get go that Wandavsion would not really matter all that much on the bigger scale of things to come. It nice to see Feige confirm what I already suspected and said along going forward in phase 4 about Wandavision.

    Although personally I feel it is darm shame because it feels as if Wandavsion was a bit less of their formula than Loki if I am just judging from the early Loki reactions but more importantly Loki is supposed to be dead, Wanda is still alive and her series was the direct aftermath of IW/Endgame, it makes no sense that they will have Loki's show have a bigger impact on the movies than Wanda's show. I am guessing, this decision is more of a fan service for Loki and actor's power thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Okay, you stan XM: TAS. Fine, you do you. All I can say though, is that when the MCU X-Men movies do come out, I think people are going to be more interested in how Sir Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman's successors fair then if Jubilee asks if mall babes eat chili fries.
    I am not obsessed with X-MEN Tas. I just gave the right reception of the show.
    I think people are going to be more interested in how Sir Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman's successors fair then if Jubilee asks if mall babes eat chili fries.
    I really doubt that because the circumstances are different.

    Jubilee was a runway kid, who lost most her childhood, she was homeless living in malls and was been hunted down by Sentinels.

    Stewart and Jackman did not have it easy in the last films since X-MEN was mostly a gritty universe . I think for MCU Phase 4 x-men and beyond, just tie it to whatever people feel will be the outcome of Shang CHI and Eternals.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-07-2021 at 10:12 AM.

  12. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Well I can't say I did'nt call this one because I did. Feige is pretty readable and predictable.
    Except you didn't "call it." Just because one show has a bigger impact than the other doesn't mean that the other doesn't have any impact. Both shows can be impactful.
    Last Read: Vagabond vol. 2

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  13. #118
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    Except you didn't "call it." Just because one show has a bigger impact than the other doesn't mean that the other doesn't have any impact. Both shows can be impactful.
    Nah, I called it. I even used the same word of Impact. lol

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ial-look/page3

    I said it on page 3, a month ago that neither wandavsion and FATWS would have much big impact on their films.

    Honestly maybe the same would for the Loki series, since I agree with what some are saying on CBM discussion that Feige could be saying Loki would have a bigger impact to build hype for the TV show because logically Loki can't and should not have a bigger impact than Wandavsion.

    His story was officially finished in Infinity Wars. Wanda's story is only beginning, especially if she becomes a mutant which now feels like a 50/50 chance going forward in phase 4

  14. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Nah, I called it. I even used the same word of Impact. lol

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ial-look/page3

    I said it on page 3, a month ago that neither wandavsion and FATWS would have much big impact on their films.
    No, you didn't "call it." Nowhere in that statement with Feige did he say that Wandavision or FATWS wouldn't be impactful. Just that Loki would be a bigger one.
    Last Read: Vagabond vol. 2

    Monthly Pull List: Action Comics, Batman/Catwoman, Batman/Superman, Catwoman, Daredevil, The Flash, Runaways, Strange Adventures, Superman

  15. #120
    Fantastic Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Feige creating hype for the upcoming show? Shocking.

    When promoting the start of the Hawkeye series he'll likely say something similar. That's how marketing works, I'm surprised that some people still don't get that.

    Truth is that none of the shows will have a big impact on the movies anyway, Loki is no exception. Feige doesn't want general audiences who only watch the movies to lose track. But of course he doesn't say that now when he wants to lure people to watch the show.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

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