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  1. #1
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    Default Invisible Woman vs Atom Eve

    616 composite Sue takes on comic Eve. They battle in a desert. Win is by KO and speed is equalized. Who wins?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    I suspect regular Sue already has the advantage in power, skill, and experience. Adding in composites (like Malice, who was more ruthless) makes it worse.

    For one thing, she contained a nuclear bomb in mid-explosion during the Infinity War comic.

  3. #3
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    They both have insta-kill powers.

    If speed is equalised, flip a coin.

  4. #4
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    They both have insta-kill powers.

    If speed is equalised, flip a coin.
    Eve's instant kill stuff [blasting through Viltrumite epidermis], as I recall, requires her to be in her near death/newly ressurected state first right?

    We've theory crafted about her being able to like... convert the air in someone's lungs into concrete or whatever but I don't think she's shown that level of finesse firing from the hip.

    However, if Sue doesn't destroy her brain with her first shot, then Eve will self-resurrect and will zorch her.

    So... advantage Sue methinks?
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  5. #5
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Eve's instant kill stuff [blasting through Viltrumite epidermis], as I recall, requires her to be in her near death/newly ressurected state first right?

    We've theory crafted about her being able to like... convert the air in someone's lungs into concrete or whatever but I don't think she's shown that level of finesse firing from the hip.

    However, if Sue doesn't destroy her brain with her first shot, then Eve will self-resurrect and will zorch her.

    So... advantage Sue methinks?
    I’ll admit, I’m not familiar enough with Comics Eve to comment, but in the TV series she removed her parents front door and replaced it with the wall while her dad was running towards it.

    Does that sound in line with her comics presentation?

    So maybe not the concrete in the lungs thing, but she could presumably turn the air around Sue into lead or something?

  6. #6
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    I’ll admit, I’m not familiar enough with Comics Eve to comment, but in the TV series she removed her parents front door and replaced it with the wall while her dad was running towards it.

    Does that sound in line with her comics presentation?

    So maybe not the concrete in the lungs thing, but she could presumably turn the air around Sue into lead or something?
    It's a bit tricky to tell. Eve can do pretty wild stuff which is highly precise. She can like... manufacture food out of dirt with enough precision that she can specifically control the calorific content to make it a healthy version of whatever she wants. She's a very good matter manipulator.

    However, the issue is that, in combat, she always tends to fall back on big pink energy constructs rather than using her transmutation offensively. And like, there's 26 volumes of Invincible and she's had a lot of opportunities to demonstrate if she can do it in combat and she never has. Her transmutation stuff seems to be the sort of thing that requires more consideration and focus and her combat reactions/off the cuff things aren't up to it.

    Like, in theory, she could do the air into lead thing but she's never done that sort of thing in a combat scenario and Sue could just bust out of it with an expanding forcefield of her own.
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  7. #7
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    I’ll admit, I’m not familiar enough with Comics Eve to comment, but in the TV series she removed her parents front door and replaced it with the wall while her dad was running towards it.

    Does that sound in line with her comics presentation?

    So maybe not the concrete in the lungs thing, but she could presumably turn the air around Sue into lead or something?
    Presumably she could, she just never does that. It takes her a moment to do complicated transformations, and it's arguable that she needs to be in contact or close proximity with the target she's transmuting. She also never transmutes air or other gasses - when she makes Mark a cup of coffee, cream and sugar for it, she transmutes dried leaves. When she's building houses and irrigating land and all sorts of stuff like that, she's starting with solids.

    Her fast, combat-ready stuff is basically all Pink Lantern stuff. She makes shields, makes constructs, fires blasts, flies, all like a low-cal lantern. The transmutation stuff is generally done with some concentration and takes a moment. That said, the door feat is pretty off-the-cuff, though it does beg the question of how much proximity means. She also never (IIRC) transmutes something she can't see - so the "inside the lungs" thing is probably maybe out of her capability. Also also - gasses are massively less dense than solids. Even transmuting air into concrete would likely leave no more than a tiny bit of dust in the lungs, I guess? Air into cyanide or chlorine might be a better plan.

    She lacks feats for doing distance transformations (outside of the insta-kill things above) when they would be extremely useful. Against the Flaxans, she never just turns their guns and armor into flowers across the battlefield. She never just turns enemy space ships into confetti. She never turns the air inside enemy battlesuits into jell-o or into chloroform. Obviously, the lack of a feat doesn't prove that the feat isn't possible, but we'd need at least some proof that it is.
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  8. #8
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Nik strongly ninja'd me there, BTW. Saying the same thing, more concisely. We can say I was using French flair, or something.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  9. #9
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Nik strongly ninja'd me there, BTW. Saying the same thing, more concisely. We can say I was using French flair, or something.
    I think your point about never doing air into solids is a good one though.

    That said, she did deconstruct her and Mark's costumes off their bodies and reconstruct them elsewhere in the room. But again, that was in a low stress environment and is also a bit of weird outlier for her abilities.
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  10. #10
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I think your point about never doing air into solids is a good one though.

    That said, she did deconstruct her and Mark's costumes off their bodies and reconstruct them elsewhere in the room. But again, that was in a low stress environment and is also a bit of weird outlier for her abilities.
    That's true. It's definitely somewhat an outlier - but it's one she did at least twice I can recall with Mark's clothes - once into the closet (that was the first time) and the second, to both of their clothes, and they were "neatly folded on the floor by the bed." Still - done in calm, done with known materials, done at very close range. She also commented on "transforming whatever she is wearing into her costume" early on, not "creating a costume from air."

    I've said this many times before and will certainly say it again: it's almost like the writer didn't consider how we'd use these powers on Rumbles.
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  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    At least we can agree Image writers, on average, write their characters more consistently than the writers over at DC and Marvel.
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  12. #12
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    At least we can agree Image writers, on average, write their characters more consistently than the writers over at DC and Marvel.
    *cough*Spawn*cough*

  13. #13
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    At least we can agree Image writers, on average, write their characters more consistently than the writers over at DC and Marvel.
    Yup, I'd grant that. It helps that Kirkman wrote all of Invincible - being consistent is easier when it's all you. :-) There is significant PIS of course - speedsters require it - but generally the limits are well-presented. Eve is powerful and has some crazy esoterics, but she's chaff to Vitrulmites. She can play a game of keep away for a while, but they generally smash through her constructs when serious and isolated on her.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
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  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Nik strongly ninja'd me there, BTW. Saying the same thing, more concisely. We can say I was using French flair, or something.
    You've been speedblitzed!

  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    You've been speedblitzed!
    Oh, massively so.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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